Modern Prohibition

[-Samurai-]

When they tried to make marijuana completely legal in California (for everyone, not just medicinal users) the thing that stood in the way was that only a relatively small portion of the younger community (the community that smokes the most MJ) actually bothered to show up and vote.

Well, there was also the factor that the wording of the proposed legislation was vague at best, with lots of loopholes that had the potential of being a legal nightmare to sort out.

I wouldn't have a problem with legalizing marijuana in the United States. If nothing else, it would provide huge tax revenue for the country during these hard economic times.

> Implying anyone actually was stupid enough to pay for it and didn't just grow it themselves.

Do you seriously think the U.S. government would allow Joe Everyman to grow his own personal pot plantation without a license? Like it or not, if marijuana does become legal it WILL be regulated along with other "sin tax" products like alcohol and tobacco. They might allow a plant or two to be grown for personal use, but no more than that.

Because thus far, the US government has been able to stop people from growing their own plantations anyway. Sure, they catch a big one every now and then, but it's a huge pond with tons of giant fish, and way too many small fish to count.

Then there's the people bringing it in from other countries. It'll likely be cheaper and better quality than anything government regulated, so people will illegally buy that anyway.

Sure, there would be people that bought it legally, but we all know the majority wouldn't because of quality and price. Legalizing it could bring in huge amounts of tax dollars, but it wouldn't.

 

[kortin]

*snip*

The chemicals in marijuana bring cognitive impairment and troubles with learning for the user. "Smoking [marijuana] causes some changes in the brain that are like those caused but cocaine, heroin, and alcohol. Some researchers believe that has changes may put a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs such a cocaine and heroin."

BOOM!!! ha ha fun topic

And thus, the reason its called the gateway drug and one of the reasons why im opposed to legalization of marijuana. Another reason: Do you really want your kids to have easier access to marijuana? Once its legalized, it will be just as easy to get marijuana as it is to get cigarettes and beer.

 

[Arizona Kyle]

*snip*

The chemicals in marijuana bring cognitive impairment and troubles with learning for the user. "Smoking [marijuana] causes some changes in the brain that are like those caused but cocaine, heroin, and alcohol. Some researchers believe that has changes may put a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs such a cocaine and heroin."

BOOM!!! ha ha fun topic

And thus, the reason its called the gateway drug and one of the reasons why im opposed to legalization of marijuana. Another reason: Do you really want your kids to have easier access to marijuana? Once its legalized, it will be just as easy to get marijuana as it is to get cigarettes and beer.

Indeed

 

[MrHero17]

And thus, the reason its called the gateway drug. One of the reasons why im opposed to legalization of marijuana. Another reason: Do you really want your kids to have easier access to marijuana? Once its legalized, it will be just as easy to get marijuana as it is to get cigarettes and beer.

Funny, no one ever calls caffeine a gateway drug.

 

[kortin]

And thus, the reason its called the gateway drug. One of the reasons why im opposed to legalization of marijuana. Another reason: Do you really want your kids to have easier access to marijuana? Once its legalized, it will be just as easy to get marijuana as it is to get cigarettes and beer.

Funny, no one ever calls caffeine a gateway drug.

Because it isn't...?

 

[starkiller212]

Is the OP implying that alcohol is harmless to society?
The only reason THAT's not banned is because it's too hard to enforce (and quite easy to tax instead).


Anyway, I don't have a very strong opinion about marijuana, as far as I can tell from what I've read it doesn't have many bad side effects (other than what comes of inhaling burning materials for prolonged periods of time), but it's also not exactly necessary for anyone's health or happiness. I do have a problem with people who break the law by growing or possessing it, though; disagreeing with a rule doesn't give you permission to break it.
Also, too many people who are pro-marijuana legalization (that I've encountered at least, not scientific) seem to promote the legalization of ALL drugs, which is a disgustingly ignorant and cruel notion. Drugs can be extremely harmful, and the only reason the worst of them are constistently used is because of their addictive nature (they are literally disrupting your brain). The bastards who design or promote them are as despicable as serial killers IMO.


[I didn't mean to offend anybody by this, by the way. Obviously I don't have experience with illegal drugs, but having been prescribed way too many medications with horrific side effects, and knowing several relatives with significant substance abuse problems, I at least partially understand how awful mind-altering chemicals can be. It just doesn't seem worth the risk without a legitimate medical need. I am also opposed to alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine though so I realize that my views are unusual]

 

[balanovich]

Now I'm not a history buff by all means, but I recall the US government once outlawed alchohal.
Americans as a whole rejected this and thus opened speakeasies, smuggled liquor, and just pretty much ignored the new law. Soon afterward the law was repealed and the people could drink when and what they wanted again.

We all know this, so my question is why is our modern prohibition so much harder to break?
I don't smoke weed, but I don't care if people do. It doesn't seem to harm us more than beer or cigerettes so why can't we topple the law on this? So many people are in favor of it. But my main confusion stems from the fact that we have places to smoke it without being judged and people smuggle tons of it. It's alot like that old prohibition so what is the problem?

I hope we can all discuss this without flaming and or trolling, thank you. -EHKOS

Alcohol was more cultural accepted. It's been in almost every culture for a long time.
And the people who smoke pot aren't in a position of power like the people who drank alcohol during the prohibition.

Their's also a lot of misinformation about pot. It's been demonized buy the cotton industry to eliminate the competition. And Bible freaks out west and down south think it's a horrible thing.

 

[lacktheknack]

If they're going to legalize it, there's better be some absolutely terrifying punishments for driving while high.

I'm having enough difficulties driving with the psychotic murderers the road is filled with as is.

 

[lacktheknack]

And Bible freaks out west and down south think it's a horrible thing.

The irony of this is that the Bible says nothing about smoking or drugs, but says "don't get drunk". Guess which area of America is famous for the ninety-proof moonshine?

 

[Forum_Name]

Now I'm not a history buff by all means, but I recall the US government once outlawed alchohal.
Americans as a whole rejected this and thus opened speakeasies, smuggled liquor, and just pretty much ignored the new law. Soon afterward the law was repealed and the people could drink when and what they wanted again.

We all know this, so my question is why is our modern prohibition so much harder to break?
I don't smoke weed, but I don't care if people do. It doesn't seem to harm us more than beer or cigerettes so why can't we topple the law on this? So many people are in favor of it. But my main confusion stems from the fact that we have places to smoke it without being judged and people smuggle tons of it. It's alot like that old prohibition so what is the problem?

I hope we can all discuss this without flaming and or trolling, thank you. -EHKOS

"The longer it goes on the harder it is to change."

It doesn't really matter what was prohibited, alcohol, cannabis, turnips... what we have now is an industry supported by prohibition.

There are more than 2 million people incarcerated in the US, and a significant portion of that is due to prohibition. Consider what legalization or decriminalization would mean to the employment of all those corrections officers, let alone the profit margins to privatized prisons? What about all the lawyers? There are special "Drug courts" now just to accommodate the volume of cases, an end to prohibition could cause less business in the courtroom. What about the police? Would their departments still receive the same funding if the war on drugs came to an end? These are all hard working Americans who's employment and livelyhood would be threatened by such a change.

For that matter, what about the hard working Americans who import, grow, or sell cannabis? Have you considered what it would do to their business? There is little room in between legal home growers, and large capital companies with the existing infrastructure for mass production and distribution. As risk dries up so will the profits to our existing distributors.

Consider what sort of bind it would cause for politicians. People have lost years of their lives, if not more, due to drug convictions. How are they going to be treated if prohibition is overturned? Would they be freed for committing a crime which is no longer a crime? Will they be compensated for their time? Will confiscated property be returned? Will employment destroying criminal records be expunged? Or will this just be another giant headache to deal with when people bemoan their treatment.

Last but not least, not everyone agrees that weed should be legal. There are significant voting blocks who would be deeply offended by the repeal of such laws. Why stir the hornet's nest when it's easier to do nothing.

tldr;
An end to prohibition is just not politically expedient.

 

[Forum_Name]

When they tried to make marijuana completely legal in California (for everyone, not just medicinal users) the thing that stood in the way was that only a relatively small portion of the younger community (the community that smokes the most MJ) actually bothered to show up and vote.

Well, there was also the factor that the wording of the proposed legislation was vague at best, with lots of loopholes that had the potential of being a legal nightmare to sort out.

I wouldn't have a problem with legalizing marijuana in the United States. If nothing else, it would provide huge tax revenue for the country during these hard economic times.

> Implying anyone actually was stupid enough to pay for it and didn't just grow it themselves.

Most states permit home brewing. How many people still buy beer?

 

[MrHero17]

Funny, no one ever calls caffeine a gateway drug.

Because it isn't...?[/quote]

And MJ somehow is? Like getting high on the weekend suddenly makes heroin seem like a good idea.

Ice cream and burglary's correlate too. You ever think that most of the people who do harder substances also like weed? I think most of the people who drink alcohol have soda too.

 

[Saelune]

Um...Alchohal was legal, then not legal, then legal again. Pot was not legal before, and still is not legal. More people probably drink than smoke pot too.

 

[octafish]

I don't know why Heroin isn't legalised and sold by the governments of the world. Seriously, with a supply of guaranteed quality and clean needles it isn't very harmful at all and it is very cheap to produce. Junkies are harmless when they are high, as long as they aren't a medical practicioner or operating heavy machinery. Junkies are only a problem when they can't score. So much crime is tied into heroin use, even without taxing it, and selling it at cost, and increased harm minimisation funding, from savings in law enforcement spending alone there would be a massive budget windfall. Terrorists would lose a major souce of income. Drug cartels would struggle. Murders would decrease. Burglaries would drop off. It could be wonderful, however the idea scares the shit out of people because, I don't know, "drugs are bad".

 

[tthor]

Because they can not tax it. It grows everywhere. If it were extremely hard to grow then yes, they would legalise it and tax the ever loving shit out of it.

Anyway I do not support weed due to the long time side effects.
But I also will not stop others from doing it.
As long as it is not smoked in public and people are not allowed to work stoned then fuck, what it does to your body is your concern.

Besides, it makes it a little more difficult to legalise when your suppliers do not even want it legal. That would absolutely destroy their profit margin.

seriously, try asking a guy stoned off his ass what 12 x 16 equals.

Now now. Non stoners will more than likely have trouble with that too. That has nothing to do with drugs and everything to do with laziness.

yes, even I had to take a moment to think about that. but i think most non-stoners, given a minute, would probably be able to figured it out. but i honestly doubt almost anyone high would be able to figure it out, and thats why the amount of time people are stoned, as well as the situations they are stoned in, need to be greatly limited. people stoned can't be reliable for making complex or educated decisions or answers, such as that math problem. and without the ability to function intelligently, it greatly limits their ability to be a productive member of society, even in such simple ways as participating in their government and politics

 

[gammazuma]

I'm a massive stoner and I'm insulted at the comments here. My stoner friends back in high school were the dumbest losers I've ever met. My stoner friends now are incredibly intelligent and are all moving on to graduate school. I'm a straight A student and I'm planning to become a linguistics professor. Smoking weed doesn't make you dumb. Being dumb makes you dumb. And weed is definitely not a gateway drug. For me it's been a restriction drug (i guess you could call it), because now I've restricted my drugs I am willing to take to weed and acid. If you're looking for a dangerous drug, look right at alcohol. I'm able to do some of my best linguistics work while stoned off my ass. All that my friends who drink can do is play stupid drinking games, sleep with random people, and feel shitty. Yes I understand there's problems with weed, but I personally find the risks easily worth the benefits.

 

[WolfEdge]

*snip*

The chemicals in marijuana bring cognitive impairment and troubles with learning for the user. "Smoking [marijuana] causes some changes in the brain that are like those caused but cocaine, heroin, and alcohol. Some researchers believe that has changes may put a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs such a cocaine and heroin."

BOOM!!! ha ha fun topic

And thus, the reason its called the gateway drug and one of the reasons why im opposed to legalization of marijuana. Another reason: Do you really want your kids to have easier access to marijuana? Once its legalized, it will be just as easy to get marijuana as it is to get cigarettes and beer.

Ah, I see. The good ol' "Think of the CHILDREN!" argument.

Fact of the matter is, by declaring the complete illegality of a substance outright, you are essentially declaring dominion over the lives of other human beings. It's tantamount to a grown man being scolded and punished by someone who is NOT his mother for making a choice that really only effects him. All other arguments are pointless. Meaningless. You're subjugating the rights of others for the sake of your own worldview. If you don't want your children smoking it, then teach them not to. If they do it anyway, then tough. That's free will for you.

"But... but what if someone smokes... and DRIVESZZ?!?!?!" is another popular argument. It's also why you make INSTANCED use illegal. It's no different with alcohol. You can drink all you want, but public intoxication is illegal (as is driving under the influence). You people are so keen on throwing the goddamn blanket over the subject that you fail to see alternatives. You're so interested in the prevention of some poorly conceived evil that you're willing to meaninglessly sacrifice the freedoms of others to get what you want.

Kinda like politicians and video games, come to think of it...

 

[FirstPersonWinner]

because prohibition wasn't easily broken. It was actually a long time before it was repealed. Also this is because the loudest people, are not always the majority. Or else everyone would be tea-party members also.

 

[Tdc2182]

Now I'm not a history buff by all means, but I recall the US government once outlawed alchohal.
Americans as a whole rejected this and thus opened speakeasies, smuggled liquor, and just pretty much ignored the new law. Soon afterward the law was repealed and the people could drink when and what they wanted again.

We all know this, so my question is why is our modern prohibition so much harder to break?
I don't smoke weed, but I don't care if people do. It doesn't seem to harm us more than beer or cigerettes so why can't we topple the law on this? So many people are in favor of it. But my main confusion stems from the fact that we have places to smoke it without being judged and people smuggle tons of it. It's alot like that old prohibition so what is the problem?

I hope we can all discuss this without flaming and or trolling, thank you. -EHKOS

The problem is the government doesn't have as much corruption in it as it did during the alcohol prohibition(surprising init?).

Plus, the level of violence that has now come from weed dealers down here on the border is much more real, and the big wigs don't yet understand that legalizing it is the only thing that's really gonna slow them down.

(then again, legalizing it might now even stop this.

Fun fact: the day it does become legal is the day my Dad gets put in charge of regulating it for the country)

((Which is America))

 

[Nimcha]

The problem is that America is a very conservative nation whose most motivated voting blocks are terrified of change.

That may be true, but isn't really relevant. I live in the Netherlands, where contrary to popular belief pot is not legal. You are allowed one or two plants in your house I think, and a few grams on your person is tolerated. But large-scale production, dealing or import is prosecuted just as heavily as anywhere else. This approach has been in effect for a long time now and in my opinion works as well as expected. But, like I said, still technically illegal. And that's not likely to change, and I think you can agree that when it comes to social liberties you can't call the Dutch conservative.