Moffat Clears Up The Doctor's Numbering...

[TimeLord]

Except not really of course.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-steven-moffat-clears-2794713

So SPOILERS for the events of The Day of the Doctor, Moffat has said that despite adding John Hurt's Doctor into the mix, Eccleston is still 9th, Tennant was still 10th, and Smith still 11th. Why? Let's see what he says;

"He's very specific, the John Hurt Doctor, that he doesn't take the name of the Doctor. He doesn't call himself that. He's the same Time Lord, the same being as the Doctors either side of him, but he's the one who says, 'I'm not the Doctor.'

"So the Eleventh Doctor is still the Eleventh Doctor, the Tenth Doctor is still the Tenth..."

So several large glaring issues with this;

Regeneration is a biological limitation on a Time Lord not a choice because he didn't chose the name Doctor.

John Hurt was still the Doctor, Smith and Tennant's Doctors say as much in the Day of the Doctor. Despite forcing themselves to forget his actions, he eventually saved Gallifrey with the other regenerations. John Hurt is the Doctor.

During the saving of Gallifrey, the War council explicitly state that all 13 of the Doctors lives are present with their TARDISs, revealing Peter Cappelli as the next (and last) Doctor.

In the end scene of the entire episode it has a shot of 12 Doctors standing on a cloud!

So I reject your silly reasoning Moffat.
What about everyone else, your thoughts?

 

[WolfThomas]

I think they threw out the regent limit back in the RTD days or at least talked about it.

That its more of a formal rule than a hard rule of nature. As shown people like the Master and Rassilon coming back.

 

[Baron von Blitztank]

Oh Steven Moffat, you'll eventually get your shit together one day!
Plus, isn't Matt Smith technically the 13th anyway since David Tennant used a regeneration on his hand after being shot by a Dalek? With the addition of John Hurt that makes Matt Smith the 14th!

 

[Colour Scientist]

Well, they said in The Sarah-Jane Adventures that the doctor could regenerate 507 times.
Davies said it was a joke but I really doubt they're going to stick to 13 doctors if the cash monehs is still rolling in.

Let's be fair, as much as I love it, Doctor Who isn't a show to be held back by something as trivial as canon.


As for the numbering, there are 13 Doctors now, I suppose, but I'm still going to think of Eccleston as 9, Tennant as 10 and Smith as 11.

 

[JoJo]

I'm personally just going to call him the 'War Doctor', retrospectively changing the numbering would be the recipe for confusion, for example say you said 'my favourite is the Eleventh Doctor', then people would be asking, 'You mean the old Eleventh or the new Eleventh?'

Edit: Apparently he's also credited as the 'War Doctor' in the closing credits of yesterday's show, so I guess that's as close to an official name as we're going to get.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Oh Steven Moffat, you'll eventually get your shit together one day!
Plus, isn't Matt Smith technically the 13th anyway since David Tennant used a regeneration on his hand after being shot by a Dalek? With the addition of John Hurt that makes Matt Smith the 14th!

Nah, he was still in the process of regenerating or something when that happened.

And, yeah, be nice if Moffat would be able to plan things in advance.

Clara is particularly annoying, in that she supposedly has met all the doctors, but only was seen by Smith's, and only just before he loses his previous companions.

OTOH, when she leaves, be nice to see other versions of her for future doctors.

 

[Albino Boo]

Clara is particularly annoying, in that she supposedly has met all the doctors, but only was seen by Smith's, and only just before he loses his previous companions.

OTOH, when she leaves, be nice to see other versions of her for future doctors.

Incarnations of Clara have met all the Doctors but not the this Clara. The first time the Dr met she was Oswin Oswald not Clara. When the current Clara entered the Dr's time stream each time she saved the Dr it was a different life. Clara was born, grew up, saved the Dr, and then died.

Opps sorry reread what you said and I agree. Late night, watched the cricket and brain my isn't in gear

 

[Pebkio]

I guess this is just about nomeclature. That's fine, but WHAT ABOUT REGENERATIONS MOFFAT?!

Yeah, okay, John Hurt is also the Doctor. I was already refering to him as such anyway. Mostly because which number which doctor has isn't important and referring to John Hurt was difficult because I don't know the Doctor's actual name. YOU READING THIS MOFFAT? WE DON'T REALLY CARE IF SMITH IS 11 OR 12!

Ahem... sorry. And honestly, I don't care about the Doctor's name... it was just kinda awkward to refer to John Hurt's doc... SERIOUSLY! WHAT'S UP WITH THE REGENERATIONS? MOFFAT! But really, do you care about what numbers your doctors have?

--

Incidentally, I give all the Dcotor's little nicknames so I don't have to call them a number. I used to call Eccleston the War Doctor because I thought he was the Doctor who was born from war (and I thought it was McGann who fought in the war but I wasn't going to call the 8th Doctor the War Doctor because "no"). Now I'll have to call Eccleston something else because John Hurt is the War Doctor. Also, FYI, I used to called Smith "The Clown Doctor" but I've had to revise it to "The Violent Doctor".

 

[Jamash]

John Hurt's first lines were: "I'm the Doctor (which amusingly contradicted Matt Smith's Doctor saying he's not the Doctor just moments before), so no matter how much they try to retcon that introduction shortly after it airing, that's how he was introduced to the series, so Moffat's explanation of him not calling himself the Doctor even though he just did (then didn't, then did again) doesn't hold much water.

Moffat should have just muttered some psuedo-science mumbo-jumbo about how Paul McGann's regeneration into John Hurt didn't count as a full regeneration because it was triggered by a magic potion.

That recent mini-episode with Paul McGann had all the hallmarks of an easy way to solve the regeneration number issue. It showed the demise of the 8th Doctor and regeneration into John Hurt's Doctor, it had science and magic and plenty of scope to easily solve the conundrum with a healthy interjection a new piece of plot armour plated canon, so Moffat's current explanation seems even weaker, like he couldn't come up with a more convincing piece of bullshit despite having all the ingredients for a acceptable answer.

 

[smartalec]

Just call Hurt the 12th? He was the 12th one we met, chronologically...

 

[Browncoat86]

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking/hoping that it's not a case of Hurt's Doctor not counting as a regeneration, but as him not counting himself as THE DOCTOR, because of what he did to Galifrey. So yes, he's the 9th regeneration, but he's not the 9th Doctor, that's how I'm beginning to interpret it anyway.

 

[Vivi22]

So several large glaring issues with this;

Regeneration is a biological limitation on a Time Lord not a choice because he didn't chose the name Doctor.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what he said.

John Hurt was still the Doctor, Smith and Tennant's Doctors say as much in the Day of the Doctor. Despite forcing themselves to forget his actions, he eventually saved Gallifrey with the other regenerations. John Hurt is the Doctor.

Clearly they're just trying to tell fans to go ahead and keep the old numbering so things don't get confusing. Sure, John Hurt was the Doctor, but he was the war Doctor. He doesn't need a number.

During the saving of Gallifrey, the War council explicitly state that all 13 of the Doctors lives are present with their TARDISs, revealing Peter Cappelli as the next (and last) Doctor.

In the end scene of the entire episode it has a shot of 12 Doctors standing on a cloud!

Again, this has no real relevance to what he's saying. He's really doing nothing more than giving the more pedantic fans an out to prevent them from insisting on re-numbering the Doctors since Paul McGann and confusing everyone. Taking anything more from it than that is a bit silly.

 

[Trivun]

Except not really of course.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-steven-moffat-clears-2794713

So SPOILERS for the events of The Day of the Doctor, Moffat has said that despite adding John Hurt's Doctor into the mix, Eccleston is still 9th, Tennant was still 10th, and Smith still 11th. Why? Let's see what he says;

"He's very specific, the John Hurt Doctor, that he doesn't take the name of the Doctor. He doesn't call himself that. He's the same Time Lord, the same being as the Doctors either side of him, but he's the one who says, 'I'm not the Doctor.'

"So the Eleventh Doctor is still the Eleventh Doctor, the Tenth Doctor is still the Tenth..."

So several large glaring issues with this;

Regeneration is a biological limitation on a Time Lord not a choice because he didn't chose the name Doctor.

John Hurt was still the Doctor, Smith and Tennant's Doctors say as much in the Day of the Doctor. Despite forcing themselves to forget his actions, he eventually saved Gallifrey with the other regenerations. John Hurt is the Doctor.

During the saving of Gallifrey, the War council explicitly state that all 13 of the Doctors lives are present with their TARDISs, revealing Peter Cappelli as the next (and last) Doctor.

In the end scene of the entire episode it has a shot of 12 Doctors standing on a cloud!

So I reject your silly reasoning Moffat.
What about everyone else, your thoughts?

No offence meant mate, but I think you're basically getting confused between Doctor numbering as in number of regenerations, and number as in actual 'Doctors'. What Moffat is trying to say is that there are indeed 13 Doctors, including Peter Capaldi's Doctor, but the numbering stays the same, because John Hurt's incarnation refused to take the name of Doctor. So Peter Capaldi will be the 12th Doctor, but the 13th incarnation of the character (according to the Doctor's personal timeline), and that incarnation number (the 13) will be what counts in terms of regeneration limits, assuming they stick to that rule, which it has to be stated is very informal and has already been all but thrown out anyway...

 

[Tanis]

Didn't the 10th Doctor use one of his regenerations to look the same?

Regardless...
JH's Doctor is just not '## Doctor' so much as he is '1st War Doctor'.
:|

I wonder how they're going to tie-in the whole 'The 11th Must Fall' with 'Return Of The Time Lords'.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Already been said, but I think the article writer got it mixed up with Moffat's words, because I think Moffat was just speaking of how we number the Doctor character wise. John Hurt IS one of the incarnations, but he's not the 9th Doctor in that sense, he is the ninth incarnation who isn't The Doctor in persona.

I hope the regeneration issue is addressed properly. One big theory is of course the one that the 13th Doctor is to go back to Gallifrey to search for a way to get more regenerations from the Time Lords. This would seem like the logical solution if Moffat is following the rules. Even if he would be seeing something we're not, he needs to address it, seeing as most fans agree that this by canon law is the last Doctor.

 

[I Max95]

I think they threw out the regent limit back in the RTD days or at least talked about it.

That its more of a formal rule than a hard rule of nature. As shown people like the Master and Rassilon coming back.

not only that but this is Doctor Who, if they want a 13th (or 14th, technically) Doctor, then they can just make up a reason...doesn't even have to make sense

it's not even a stretch for them, I still remember the time the Doctor died and was brought back when Clara jumped down a magic hole, or the time the Doctor died and came back because really it was just a robotic copy, or that time the Doctor died and was brought back when Amy Pond wished apon a star (well not exactly but she might as well have, it would have made just as little sense), or the time Rory died and came back as a robot roman because fuck if I know

Doctor Who is king of the "Because we felt like it" school of writing

 

[Ranorak]

On the subject of additional lives.
I know it can be easily rewritten, but during The Day of the Doctor we hear this:
Paraphrased: "It's all 12 of them! No sir, all 13!"
Indicating that all 12 doctors and the Wardoctor were present.
All of them...

Which seems to indicated that there isn't a 14th.
Of course, like I said, there could easily be a reason why the hypothetical 14th, 15th, etc, weren't there.
But so far, it just seems like the 13th incarnation of the 12th doctor might be the last.


Having said that, I'd still love to see some (mini)episodes featuring the Wardoctor and the War.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

Except not really of course.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-steven-moffat-clears-2794713

Enter Moffat to retcon himself, thought you might find this interesting! It's a seperate, more recent article than the one in the OP.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/24/doctor-who-steven-moffat-clears-up-the-whole-doctor-regeneration-problem-sort-of-4199592/

So does this mean that the theory about "Find Gallifrey and get granted a new cycle" as the new driving force of the show is much more sensical? This only leaves River's regenerations left to factor in. How many did she have? Did she give them all up? Did the Doctor gain add them to his own or use all of them up at once?

Either way, it seems Moffat is claiming to stick to the 12 regeneration limit. Unless this is another "Lie to the media so they don't see what's coming!" hijinx.