"Mokoto Kusanagi can be white" Yeah okay, I'll let you have that...(Rant)

DefunctTheory

Not So Defunct Now
Mar 30, 2010
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First of all, unless you've seen something I haven't, there hasn't been any indication of the character's sexual preferences.

Second...

Angelblaze said:
The actual argument being made here is that Scarlett Johansson is playing the character, meaning that they are appealing to a mass audience (as many have said). If we're going to claim that that is indeed the reason, then we have to consider the fact that they are not going to allow Mokoto to be as sexually ambiguous as she was in the anime, which is important.
Ok, so you're suggesting that they picked Johansson purely to pander to the male audience. But that this pandering proves that they aren't going to oversexualize her and make her a sexy bisexual.

...Ok.

Third, wrong forum.
 

Fappy

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GitS has had its fair share of crap already, so I am not overly concerned that Hollywood would fuck it up. The beauty of the franchise is that there are so many different canons, so if there's one you don't like you can simply ignore it. As for her sexual ambiguity, I am not convinced casting Scarlett Johansson = she will definitively be straight. They may be trying to broaden the appeal of the film, but it's cyber punk, so it's already going to be somewhat niche. Who knows, they may keep it in.

EDIT: Also, I am moving this into OT.
 

Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
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Motoko isn't trans.

In ANY series she appears in.

Bi-sexual (or just not picky), yes. But trans? No.

Her origins stories all share the same basic themes; young girl in terrible accident > gets cybernetic body > becomes member of counter-terrorism unit.

Some series are a little clearer on the origins than others (SAC, the movies), but she isn't a male in any of them.
 

Fappy

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Paragon Fury said:
Motoko isn't trans.

In ANY series she appears in.

Bi-sexual (or just not picky), yes. But trans? No.

Her origins stories all share the same basic themes; young girl in terrible accident > gets cybernetic body > becomes member of counter-terrorism unit.

Some series are a little clearer on the origins than others (SAC, the movies), but she isn't a male in any of them.
I could be remembering wrong, but do they ever straight out say this in the original film? I don't remember her past really being clearly explored, but it's been awhile since I have seen it.
 

Revnak_v1legacy

Fixed by "Monday"
Mar 28, 2010
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Fappy said:
Paragon Fury said:
Motoko isn't trans.

In ANY series she appears in.

Bi-sexual (or just not picky), yes. But trans? No.

Her origins stories all share the same basic themes; young girl in terrible accident > gets cybernetic body > becomes member of counter-terrorism unit.

Some series are a little clearer on the origins than others (SAC, the movies), but she isn't a male in any of them.
I could be remembering wrong, but do they ever straight out say this in the original film? I don't remember her past really being clearly explored, but it's been awhile since I have seen it.
That's her origin story in SAC. I don't think any other version of her has a backstory, though some versions do have people speculate about whether the Major was born a man or a woman. I'm pretty sure that comes up in a season of SAC as well.
 

Angelblaze

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AccursedTheory said:
First of all, unless you've seen something I haven't, there hasn't been any indication of the character's sexual preferences.

Second...

Angelblaze said:
The actual argument being made here is that Scarlett Johansson is playing the character, meaning that they are appealing to a mass audience (as many have said). If we're going to claim that that is indeed the reason, then we have to consider the fact that they are not going to allow Mokoto to be as sexually ambiguous as she was in the anime, which is important.
Ok, so you're suggesting that they picked Johansson purely to pander to the male audience. But that this pandering proves that they aren't going to oversexualize her and make her a sexy bisexual.

...Ok.

Third, wrong forum.
First, manga. Read. Thanks.
Second. I'm suggesting they picked Johansson to pander to an over generalized audience, try not to shove words down my throat sweetie.
Third, whatever.

Fappy said:
GitS has had its fair share of crap already, so I am not overly concerned that Hollywood would fuck it up. The beauty of the franchise is that there are so many different canons, so if there's one you don't like you can simply ignore it. As for her sexual ambiguity, I am not convinced casting Scarlett Johansson = she will definitively be straight. They may be trying to broaden the appeal of the film, but it's cyber punk, so it's already going to be somewhat niche. Who knows, they may keep it in.

EDIT: Also, I am moving this into OT.
I'm just saying, if she's straight I expect every one whose made a cute little internet video saying 'its okay, she can be white' to be pissed that they ruined the canon. But hey, that's me expecting consistency from the internet.
 

DefunctTheory

Not So Defunct Now
Mar 30, 2010
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Angelblaze said:
AccursedTheory said:
First of all, unless you've seen something I haven't, there hasn't been any indication of the character's sexual preferences.

Second...

Angelblaze said:
The actual argument being made here is that Scarlett Johansson is playing the character, meaning that they are appealing to a mass audience (as many have said). If we're going to claim that that is indeed the reason, then we have to consider the fact that they are not going to allow Mokoto to be as sexually ambiguous as she was in the anime, which is important.
Ok, so you're suggesting that they picked Johansson purely to pander to the male audience. But that this pandering proves that they aren't going to oversexualize her and make her a sexy bisexual.

...Ok.

Third, wrong forum.
First, manga. Read. Thanks.
Second. I'm suggesting they picked Johansson to pander to an over generalized audience, try not to shove words down my throat sweetie.
Third, whatever.
The manga, written years ago, predicted that the live action movie version of the series would change the sexual preference/promiscuity level of the primary character?

Holy shit. Did it happen to include any lottery numbers while they were at it?

And really, appealing to the 'over generalized' audience doesn't mean squat either. We're living in a time where a movie in which Ryan Reynold's gets fucked in the ass by his girlfriend can make 750 fucking million dollars. Anyone who says they can predict the future in movies is, at this point, a lying lunatic.
 

kris40k

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Feb 12, 2015
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Motoko is not trans. She is bi. This was established in the original manga, where she had a boyfriend who was a cop who she ended up having to break up with because they almost shot each other when his Department's team and hers clashed in the field and they couldn't reconcile the potential conflicts of interest. She has also had girlfriends in the manga, SAC, and possible other series that I haven't caught yet.

Her birth gender was female and her childhood has been established. The line in SAC from Batou where he shouts that she should just get it over with and get a man's body is because he is upset with her behavior/relationships with women when he (semi)secretly is pining for her, but won't let himself potentially ruin things between the two of them by making any moves towards her.

Full stop.

Anyways, they are just going to fuck everything up in the movie, so IDGAF.
 

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
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Wasn't she essentially asexual/non-gendered in the movie? Like, isn't it a major theme of the movie that she essentially doesn't have a real gender or sex?

I heard that the manga is radically different. Apparently she prostitutes herself out to a couple of women or something, but I don't think that makes her gay. I don't know, I've only seen the film. Personally, I'd be happy if sex and romance never gets brought up at all in the film.
 

Quellist

Migratory coconut
Oct 7, 2010
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kris40k said:
Anyways, they are just going to fuck everything up in the movie, so IDGAF.
Most accurate thing said in this whole thread. It's going to be shit, we all know its going to be shit so who fucking cares what kind of a mess they make of it?
 

kris40k

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Feb 12, 2015
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Fox12 said:
Wasn't she essentially asexual/non-gendered in the movie? Like, isn't it a major theme of the movie that she essentially doesn't have a real gender or sex?
In the first movie, kinda. She wasn't so much asexual as she just was emotionally distant or blank, cold. She was detached from her physical body as it was just a tool to be used and discarded as needed, like an empty magazine from a firearm. It was just her "Shell." The subject of her sexuality was never broached and they never touched on any romantic relationships. This was a vast difference from the Motoko of the original story (manga) who was actually overly-emotional, and overly-sexual, in a sort of over-compensation for being a full conversion cyborg. She was hot-blooded, quick to anger and shout, and enjoyed the occasional VR or real-life 3-way. The SAC and 2nd Gig series presented a Motoko much more true to the original material. She was much more emotional, sexual and they introduced her girlfriends and background.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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It's such a shame theres going to be that mass burning of all the original copies of the Manga and Anime when the movie came out.

Remember, just like when Dragonball Evolution came out? Now all we have is Dragonball Evolution. Oh well, that is progress. Time for me to go prepare my copy of Ghostbusters as well.

Someone made this great point to me about Batman killing in BvS and I think it applies here. It's a different universe. How many universes are there where Batman kills? We may be use to the ones where he doesn't, but in this one he does. It doesn't make him less or more Batman.

This Mokoto can be straight, cause it's not the same Mokoto from the anime. Different universes.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Wait, they're making her straight for broad appeal?

Because if I was trying to sell movie tickets I would not be inclined to remove the part where a cyborg played by Scarlett Johansson has a threesome with two other women.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Wow. "Trans" is such a trigger word that bringing it up as a hypothetical demonstration can lead to a bunch of people focusing on it.

So here's the thing: if they can make the Major white or a man and it's fine, they can make her straight as well. I can't even make sense out of why this is a specific sticking point. Source material doesn't work, either.
 

Qizx

Executor
Feb 21, 2011
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Something Amyss said:
Wow. "Trans" is such a trigger word that bringing it up as a hypothetical demonstration can lead to a bunch of people focusing on it.

So here's the thing: if they can make the Major white or a man and it's fine, they can make her straight as well. I can't even make sense out of why this is a specific sticking point. Source material doesn't work, either.
You used "trigger word" wrong. Which totally triggers me.

They genderbend characters, they race swap characters, they do whatever with characters all the time. Personally I think changing a character just for "reasons" is stupid but it happens a lot and it doesn't impact the previous material.
 

Darth Rosenberg

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Oct 25, 2011
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Angelblaze said:
Mokoto can't be: Completely and utterly straight.
I've only seen the film, and her sexuality in that matters as much as her aesthetic [shell] ethnicity, i.e. not one iota. Both are absolutely insignificant to the plot, and to the themes.

Aren't references to the series or manga pretty meaningless, though, given the '95 film's surely the only reason a live action production was ever considered?
 

The Lunatic

Princess
Jun 3, 2010
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Can't say it really bothers me.

Personally, I've never really got the fuss about casting people of different races to play characters and so on, likewise if the portrayal itself is different than the source material. Ultimately, it's never going to exactly follow the source, so, why not do something new and different with it whilst retaining elements?


It's one of those weird issues.

People kick up a fuss if a black character is replaced by a white actor, yet anyone who complains about a white character being played by a black actor is labeled racist.

I don't really get it myself. It just seems like a big double standard.
 

Vanilla ISIS

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Dec 14, 2015
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You just can't make a movie these days without without a bunch of people whining about every little detail of it.
Besides, all you've seen is 1 photo and that's it.
You don't know anything about the movie, other than who's involved in it.
Give it a rest, wait until the trailer is released.