morality systems have they had there day?

[Trivun]

See, if I was a game writer, any morality system I was asked to write in would be something where you have to make a really bad choice where whatever you choose, something terrible happens. You'd basically have to choose the lesser of two evils. And this would usually have a detrimental effect on the sanity and reasoning of the main character. I'm such a sadist to my characters... Actually, I'd probably be a pretty good writer of survival horror games .

 

[Seldon2639]

Eh, it depends on what we mean by morality systems.

Any morality system that's just a tracking of the choices you make (a sort of "look how good/evil you are" meter) probably isn't going to mean much at all. But when it actually influences gameplay (and plot, oh goodness plot), I think there's a real place for it in RPGs.

What I want to see is an RPG where you really do get to make overarching changes to the very nature of the game through the good or evil choices you make. Fallout 3 was pretty close, but even then it was largely cosmetic, rather than permanent. I've been saying for years that the best morality system would be one in which you're locked into your morality. Maybe there are points in the game that you can override your morality and do something contrary, but overall, you're stuck. If you're evil, you can't suddenly selflessly save puppies. If you're good, you can't kick puppies

 

[Cargando]

Actually, I'd say their day is only just dawning. Most games feature them now, they are becoming a common piece of gameplay. So, as more games feature them, they will steadily evolve and work out any kinks they have now.


And even as they are now, I still enjoy them. I appreciate having the choice.

 

[brodie21]

i think a great morality system is that it wont tell you what effect the decision you made has on the story or the characters around you. and it will affect every single person a different way, depending on if they have seen it, who they heard it from, etc

just like real life.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

i remember when the first games with morality systems were released and there was so much hype about them but i cant help feeling that they have lost all purpose they never really do any major changes to the storys and its always "good" or "evil" and no in between so what do other poeple think?

Yeah, and guitar music is on the way out.

Honestly... try to use some punctuation when you type. Your post is barely comprehensible.

 

[Z of the Na'vi]

To me, Fable was the best game to have moral choices.

The first Fable, not that awful sequel to it.

It actually felt like your choices MENT something in there, as opposed to "Say yes to save puppies or No to eat them."

 

[Darmort]

Punctuation: Has it had it's day?
OT: No, I think if studios can manage to make their morality systems more subtle and less stark, they could be a great addition to a game.

Punctuation is for hippies anyway.

OT: Dragon Age did a great job with its morality system. It had a distinct impact on which of your party members you would want with you. For instance, I was a good guy, and had Sten in my party. Eventually, since he thought I was weak, he challenged me to a fight. I bitchslapped him and he got back in line. It was pretty cool.

I remember that. I went to Haven and just inside the temple I had to slap him to the ground.
Subsequent characters have somehow managed to please him by not caring about his opinion which is odd... that said, BioWare generally make the best morality systems...

On an overall, morality systems need to die, since most of them are Christian Good or Satan Evil. What I'd want is a morality system that affects every little thing in the game, or it all builds up to alter the eventual ending that is affected by all your actions. They need to evolve.

 

[jimduckie]

i hated fallout 3 for the karma thing at first but then discovered the replay ability of this game plus with 5 achievements to go , i've accepted it but they better not bring it to gta series

 

[WillSimplyBe]

Mass Effect had a GREAT Morality system, as the options weren't so stark as in some others, and Paragon and Renegade bars were completely *independent* of each other, letting you have as much of either at any one time as you want. I made my Shepard max the Paragon bar, but that didn't mean he never got pissed off, so I sometimes answered some things in a renegade way.(ESPECIALLY when the council refused to believe me about Ilos! Grr...) Best morality system IMO.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

I've seen some pretty neat morality systems.

Most notably, Demon's Souls ''morality'' system affected how demonic a world became. The more demonic a world becomes, the stronger the mobs are. But you get more items and souls. Of course, you could make it less demonic and make the enemies weaker. But you miss out on several good items.

I don't think World Tendency is really a morality system, more like a reward/punishment system for playing well or poorly. I guess you could say repeated suicide a moral choice but you're not hurting anyone except yourself, and not even yourself really.

Demon's Souls also applies the black/white tendency system to your own character though, which works as an awesome morality system. It's simple and hugely effective:

Killing evil phantoms (players or hard-to-meet NPCs) makes you good... being good gives you more HP and attack power as a soul or blue phantom, which in turn makes it easier to be helpful in multiplayer or get through areas on your own without using revival items. Simply put, it's in your best interests at that point to continue being good.

Killing sane people and good phantoms (most NPCs, or invading other players) makes you evil... you get the reverse of the HP bonus from being good, and a big damage bonus when invading other people's games. Thanks to the reduced HP getting anywhere in your own game pretty much requires you to be using your human body... and when you need to revive yourself, you really suck as a helpful phantom so the easier (and more awesome) way to do it is invading another player and making sure they die. In short, you're better off being evil.

What's a little wierd, according to western morality at least, is that "good" is the easier choice... helping people is easier XP especially because of slaying invading phantoms. Staying evil takes constant effort because killing invading phantoms is pretty much a necessity and keeps pushing your character towards good.

 

[Sephychu]

Morality systems HAD a "day"?

My thoughts exactly. Fallout 3's was only barely passable, as it took the catholic approach of you being able to buy your way back into the ranks of good.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

ehh fallout 3 was okay, but it was ridiculously easy to earn bad karma, which was b.s. especially if oyu were getting those magazines

personally i loved KOTOR's morality (light/dark side) setup, you would either get some characters or not and the ending changed immensly also with the character setup depending on what you did, also with what super robes you could get

 

[Hiphophippo]

So far I love DA:O morality system as it isn't simply good, or evil person. You don't know what the far reaching effects of your actions are and it makes for a way more interesting experience

Yea, this.

The only other games where it's not so ridiculous are the KOTOR games. It seems to work there as you side with either sith or jedi,( or at least make more sense in that context) but in Dragon Age, without an actual meter the game played to a much greyer shade.

I thought it handled it about as well as it could.

 

[jowo96]

I think it has its place, it needn't be in every game and sometimes it locks the player out of some seriously cool content which is annoying.

 

[Atvomat_Nikonov]

I generally like Morality systems. It gives me something to think about, makes me contemplate my actions and whatnot. Fallout 3, Dragon Age:Origins and Mass Effect did them pretty well. On my first playthroughs, I had to think about whether or not what I was doing was right. When I tried to go evil on a second playthrough I usually pussied out and ended up neutral. I really enjoyed the morality systems in those three games.

However, Army of Two:The 40th Day has a horrific morality system. They give you an A or B choice like kill that guy for money or let him leave for nothing. The game pulls puppy dog eyes when you do a bad choice, and makes you feel like a total shit. After my first 'bad choice' I decided to choose the nicer ones. They still result in something bad happening. Then even leave the ending to one of these choices.

Spoiler: The Choices

Kill the Big Bad, and end up nuking Shanghai in the process or Kill your best friend. I chose kill the big bad, and I barely even got an ending. Huge waste of cash that game.

 

[Volafortis]

Mass Effect had a GREAT Morality system, as the options weren't so stark as in some others, and Paragon and Renegade bars were completely *independent* of each other, letting you have as much of either at any one time as you want. I made my Shepard max the Paragon bar, but that didn't mean he never got pissed off, so I sometimes answered some things in a renegade way.(ESPECIALLY when the council refused to believe me about Ilos! Grr...) Best morality system IMO.

Definitely. I loved the ability to freely get pissed off about certain things without losing Paragon points. I may gain Renegade, but it feels much more natural.

 

[DreamKing]

I liked in Fable II that it not only had Good and Evil, they also had a Purity and Corruption meter so it was possible to Good/Corrupt and Evil/Pure. That said, the meters fill quite fast depending on your play method. It is still an improvement over the original Fable's morality system, which it was far infinitly easier to be good because most of the enemies that target you reward good points, unless you had some beef with the traders.

Fallout 3's system was interesting, but it was very difficult to remain neutral out in the Wastleland.

Mass Effect's system was strange. It was not really a morality system more, it was more Good Cop/ Bad Cop. I think that Mass Effect would be better if there was something similar to faction system. Doing missions for one faction would make them happier and attacking their troops wuld make them mad with you.

Personally, I could care less about something like this. Until computers can simulate the human mind and how each person perceives events differently, morality systems in games will feature binary choices. This also makes it easier to play as good or evil. I can image gamers being very pissed when they do something they believe is good and it makes them the most vilified character in game.