Morally complex/ambiguous games

[Not Lord Atkin]

Let me just assume that most of you probably have experience with that one person (usually but not necessarily of the female persuasion) that will stand in front of their overfilled wardrobe for hours, complaining about how they have nothing to wear. Well after today I think I'll have more patience with this particular behaviour.

I've just spent the entire day lamenting about how, despite owning around 500 games across 6 platforms, I have nothing to play.

This happens to me from time to time, usually after I've finished a game that I REALLY liked and now can't think of anything remotely as good. Then I try to find a game that shares the element I've enjoyed the most about the game I've just finished and more often than not, I fail miserably.

It happened with Dark Souls and its deceptively simple combat and it's happening again with The Witcher 2. Except this time, I just can't believe that there are no other games out there that have tackled the subject of morality the same way Sapkowski's novels and CD Projekt's subsequent games did.

I'm getting tired of the standard good guy/bad guy arrangement. It's a perfectly servicable way to tell a story, it's just that the standard good vs evil setting, especially when it comes to fantasy, is overused to the point when I'm starting to get quite tired of it.

I need another game like the Witcher series (at least until February when The Witcher 3 comes out). I need a game that can tell a compelling and nuanced story without having the need for a clear cut bad guy to motivate the hero. I need a game world that doesn't operate on the binary distinction of good versus evil. Fantasy RPGs are especially guilty of this. The idea of creating a virtuous hero and a great evil for the hero to fight against seems so basic, so intuitive that most writers don't even give it a second thought. And while there's always a place for your clear cut heroes and dreadful villains, right now I just don't feel like being the only one who can stop the evil army of evil lead by the evil evil general made of evil. Looking at you Dragon Age.

Dicuss your favourite games that stray away from this trope and make an effort to explore different shades of morality rather than demonising the side of the conflict the main character doesn't happen to be a part of.

 

[MirenBainesUSMC]

Oh I don't know, Mass Effect 2 and 3 threw you a few wrenches or two in the moral department. Shepard using his " war hero" status to get discounts at stores...shooting various people when you don't have to, decisions to harm or hurt allies.

Fallout 3, Fallout:New Vegas --- certainly there are plenty of " Now was that really a good thing to do?" moments.

To a certain extent and although this escapes many people due to the flaws of the game -- Far Cry II. Was the " Jackal" really that bad of a guy? Hmmm....

Modern Warfare II - " No Russia".

 

[ChupathingyX]

The game you're looking for is NieR.

 

[Not Lord Atkin]

The game you're looking for is NieR.

please expand on that statement.

Oh I don't know, Mass Effect 2 and 3 threw you a few wrenches or two in the moral department. Shepard using his " war hero" status to get discounts at stores...shooting various people when you don't have to, decisions to harm or hurt allies.

Fallout 3, Fallout:New Vegas --- certainly there are plenty of " Now was that really a good thing to do?" moments.

To a certain extent and although this escapes many people due to the flaws of the game -- Far Cry II. Was the " Jackal" really that bad of a guy? Hmmm....

Modern Warfare II - " No Russia".

I don't think that a game that gives you an option to be an absolute monster if you wish is a good example of what I had in mind. What I'm trying to do is to think of games that do not concern themselves with creating the distinction of what's good and what's evil. I'm looking for a more nuanced storyline, one which doesn't feel the need to define a villain just to give player a sense of motivation. Suspense can be created without the opposing side threatening to kill puppies and conflicts generally don't have a clearly defined right and a wrong side. I want to see more games that explore the world and the characters without artificially raising the stakes through a token villain character.

Again, The Witcher is a perfect example of this. There are no villains, just a bunch of powerful people attempting to steer the politics of the region in their favour. The world building and character development take precedence over the drive to fight the big bad. The main character, Geralt, believes himself to be a good person yet his drive to do the right thing more often than not fucks him over as he, despite his best intentions, fails to see the big picture. In fact, every character has their own motivation and what may be perceived as wrong by some can be seen as necessary when viewed through a different lens.
Conflict in the witcher does not arise from the lazy binary distinction between good and evil, it's caused by difference in opinion and clash of interests. Geralt is not fighting to stop the archdemon from unleashing the blight of darkspawn that kills everything because of reasons. He's trying to clear his name after being drawn into a political struggle he doesn't understand.

I refuse to believe that there aren't more games like this.

 

[Blue C Jeffrey]

I think a game you're looking for is Spec Ops: The Line.

Military third-person shooter. Go to some foreign country, save the day in the good ol' fashioned American way. Be a hero. Sounds pretty standard, right?

Just remember the following going into it:

There is no difference between what is right and what is necessary.

You are still a good person.

To kill for yourself is murder.
To kill for your government is heroic.
To kill for entertainment is harmless.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

Planescape: Torment sounds like exactly what you're looking for. This game has the best writing in any game I've ever played, bar none. Certainly the best of any RPG I've played. There are some sequences in that game that really made me sit and think about the decisions I'd made previously and what they actually meant. The game is also a bit unique in that it has a very personal story, where the main character's primary motivation is not based on some external evil, but rather his own need to figure out the mystery of his past. Combine this with fantastic characters and one of the most unique fantasy settings I've ever seen, and you've got a recipe for one of the best RPGs of all time.

Okay fine, technically the game does have a morality system, but it's really more of a relic of the DnD system that the game is based on than anything that really affects the gameplay or story to a substantial degree.

Also, be warned that the game is close to 15 years old at this point, and many aspects of the game have not aged very gracefully. Specifically, the combat in the game is kind of shit. Fortunately, most major combat encounters can be bypassed entirely with dialogue (which usually gives you more experience anyway), but it's something you should be aware of going in. Still highly recommend it despite its flaws.

 

[Jaegerbombastic]

So do you want an RPG specifically or are willing to branch out to genres? Anyways, here's some games I recommend that are pretty morally ambiguous:


S.T.A.L.K.E.R series: There are no heroes and villains in the Zone; only people trying to survive. Most of the enemies you face are the mutated versions of the local animals and unlucky humans. The two big factions in the game, Duty and Freedom, differ on philosophical approaches on how the Zone should be managed rather than moral. Even factions that are almost always your enemy like the bandits and military have their reasons for doing so. The only judgement you get for your actions are whether any of the factions catch you doing ill will towards them. Ultimately, the only thing you're concerned with is your own survival and wealth. (WARNING: for best results you will have to heavily mod and fanpatch the games)

Metro series: S.T.A.L.K.E.R's actiony, rambunctious little brother. The gameplay is more straightforward and there's a couple factions you'll have an awfully hard time sympathizing with (unless you happen to be a Nazi or a hardcore Communist). However, like S.T.A.L.K.E.R the crux of the story is that you're trying to survive, and without going into spoiler territory the story becomes increasingly more morally grey and hammers in the point that your survival can mean preventing someone else's.

Expeditions - Conquistador: Its a small indie RPG where you take the place of Cortez in exploring the New World, with everything that implies. You can be a passive explorer, a conqueror, a saint, a sinner, etc. The game itself doesn't judge you but your party members will react differently to it. You meet plenty of people you'll consider good or evil, but no more so than what you'd expect from the era.

World In Conflict: Yes, technically the Soviets are the bad guys for invading Europe and the US in the first place which by that logic makes the US the good guys. However, the game takes a more nuanced and realistic view on the situation. All the characters from either side are regular soldiers and officers caught in a desperate, vicious war that could lead to a nuclear exchange at any moment. The Americans spend a good chunk of game not necessarily defending their country but delaying the invasion long enough for them to hopefully regroup and push it back. The Soviets find themselves stuck in a slow, bloody, and frustrating advance against a stubborn defense force and and angry civilian populace. Even the characters that you initially write off as assholes later reveal backstories and depth that make you understand their motivations and make you feel sorry for them.

E.Y.E: Divine Cybermancy: I've played through this game multiple times and I still don't know wtf is going on a lot of the time. From what little I DO know is that the game takes inspiration from the Warhammer 40k School of Universal Nihilism. You are part of a fanatical religion dedicated to fighting and destroying a race of demons. Said demons are vengeful psychic manifestations of the countless flora, fauna, and sentient lifeforms that humanity has destroyed. At the same time you are at open war with a brutal police state that controls the rest of humanity. Not because you want to liberate humanity, but because your order wants to forceably convert everyone to your cause and the best way to do that is to become the new Big Brother. Meanwhile, your religion is split into two competing schools of thought whose answer for dealing with their interpretations of your sacred text and the direction of their order is to wage a cold war between the two until one side is so weakened from within that the other side can easily purge them.

 

[SweetShark]

So you want a game which it include a "Grey" morality in a game.
Well let me check please:

"Mass Effect 2" did something like that, but because it is a GIANT spoiler, I will not say what it is.

Surprisingly "Papers Please!" have many examples of Grey choices you can make. I have plans to play the game soon.
You think most of the times you let the "right" people to get trough the country Arstotzka, but you are never......NEVER sure if this was the right or wrong choices. This also help a lot of with the newspapers you read.

The first "Walking Dead" game from Telltale Games id also a VERY good example. Of course I will not tell something again, because spoilers.

Planescape Torment....the best game I ever played. Many kinds of dilemas you encounter through the game.

Well, there is another game I can suggest, but if I even say it's name, it is a spoiler....so...I am sorry.

 

[hazabaza1]

The Walking Dead. The Wolf Among Us to an extent as well. Depending on your definition of "game" you might dislike them but that'd just be plain silly. Both series approach morality in that it gives you two to three choices, and then lets it play out. Some characters like it, some don't. Some characters can die because of it, some won't. On top of this they're both just really well written and involve some tense/entertaining fight scenes respectively.

 

[themilo504]

Some of the most morally complex games I?ve ever encountered are grand strategy games, even if you try to play as a benevolent and peaceful ruler you?re going to have to do a lot of bad things to survive.

 

[UsualGuy]

The game you're looking for is NieR.

please expand on that statement.

Oh I don't know, Mass Effect 2 and 3 threw you a few wrenches or two in the moral department. Shepard using his " war hero" status to get discounts at stores...shooting various people when you don't have to, decisions to harm or hurt allies.

Fallout 3, Fallout:New Vegas --- certainly there are plenty of " Now was that really a good thing to do?" moments.

To a certain extent and although this escapes many people due to the flaws of the game -- Far Cry II. Was the " Jackal" really that bad of a guy? Hmmm....

Modern Warfare II - " No Russia".

I don't think that a game that gives you an option to be an absolute monster if you wish is a good example of what I had in mind. What I'm trying to do is to think of games that do not concern themselves with creating the distinction of what's good and what's evil. I'm looking for a more nuanced storyline, one which doesn't feel the need to define a villain just to give player a sense of motivation. Suspense can be created without the opposing side threatening to kill puppies and conflicts generally don't have a clearly defined right and a wrong side. I want to see more games that explore the world and the characters without artificially raising the stakes through a token villain character.

Again, The Witcher is a perfect example of this. There are no villains, just a bunch of powerful people attempting to steer the politics of the region in their favour. The world building and character development take precedence over the drive to fight the big bad. The main character, Geralt, believes himself to be a good person yet his drive to do the right thing more often than not fucks him over as he, despite his best intentions, fails to see the big picture. In fact, every character has their own motivation and what may be perceived as wrong by some can be seen as necessary when viewed through a different lens.
Conflict in the witcher does not arise from the lazy binary distinction between good and evil, it's caused by difference in opinion and clash of interests. Geralt is not fighting to stop the archdemon from unleashing the blight of darkspawn that kills everything because of reasons. He's trying to clear his name after being drawn into a political struggle he doesn't understand.

I refuse to believe that there aren't more games like this.

There aren't games like that atm. Planescape:Torment is something you may want, however only if you can get past its look. Other than that there are no game with such a gritty and complex atmosphere as the Witcher, because otherwise they wouldn't be considered gems.

 

[LongAndShort]

Red Dead Redemption is a pretty morally nuanced game, all things considered.

I think the character Irish said it best when he tells John Marsden, the protagonist, "You're an angry and a feck ugly man. But not a bad one."

 

[Yuiiut]

Some of the most morally complex games I?ve ever encountered are grand strategy games, even if you try to play as a benevolent and peaceful ruler you?re going to have to do a lot of bad things to survive.

Crusader Kings 2: So You Thought You Were A Good Person.

Yes, you can arrange it so that you rule a line of just, fair rulers who grow the land and the people rich and wealthy off peaceful growth. However, what if the Pope calls a Crusade-better take part in that, just to keep him happy enough not to banish you from the church. Oh, and your heir has developed a lisp and is a bit too fond of being around other men? Well, if you send him to convert heathens, and they tragically kill him, there's no blood on your hands, right? And now a Count has tried to overthrow you? Well, the ethical thing to do is strip him of his lands. But now he hates you, and has a claim on your stuff. Well, you could castrate him, to prevent any children of his from inheriting the claims. Yes. That's what you need to do. It's for the stability of the land. That's what it's for. Yes. It's ok. Oh, and his wife's pregnant? While, if you just wait for the child, you can deal with it appropriately. And that count just killed your only son? Who's your heir now? Your daughter? But she's married in the wrong way-her 5 children are in her fathers family. Well, time to smother some babies and kill your son in law. IT'S FOR THE GREATER GOOD.
Oh, would you look at that-that count's wife just gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. But if you execute it, people will think you're a tyrant! Wait, there's the solution: http://imgur.com/xCcu70e

IT WAS FOR THE GOOD OF THE REALM, GAME, STOP JUDGNG ME

 

[MeatMachine]

Fallout: New Vegas has some morally challenging circumstances, but it kind of requires your full immersion to appreciate at all - something that the game doesn't really pull off well, since almost your entire focus will constantly be on making your character more powerful, through aquisition of wealth, weapons, stat points, perks, whatever. Story kind of takes a backseat most of the time, and it's tempting to rush through and ignore dialogue and scripted events in favor of harvesting quest rewards and scavenging as quickly as possible.

The Walking Dead (Telltale Games' version, since there are now 3 different "Walking Dead" game franchises out there now...) pulls it off better than any other games I've played, but I'd recommend Season 1 over Season 2, as Season 2 really tapers off into stupid bullshit towards the end.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Spec Ops: The Line.

KoTOR II.

Play them. They both go dirt cheap during sales, and they have all the moral ambiguity you want. KoTOR II has pretty good value too, as it clocks in at around 25 hours of playtime.

 

[maxben]

Some of the most morally complex games I?ve ever encountered are grand strategy games, even if you try to play as a benevolent and peaceful ruler you?re going to have to do a lot of bad things to survive.

Crusader Kings 2: So You Thought You Were A Good Person.

Yes, you can arrange it so that you rule a line of just, fair rulers who grow the land and the people rich and wealthy off peaceful growth. However, what if the Pope calls a Crusade-better take part in that, just to keep him happy enough not to banish you from the church. Oh, and your heir has developed a lisp and is a bit too fond of being around other men? Well, if you send him to convert heathens, and they tragically kill him, there's no blood on your hands, right? And now a Count has tried to overthrow you? Well, the ethical thing to do is strip him of his lands. But now he hates you, and has a claim on your stuff. Well, you could castrate him, to prevent any children of his from inheriting the claims. Yes. That's what you need to do. It's for the stability of the land. That's what it's for. Yes. It's ok. Oh, and his wife's pregnant? While, if you just wait for the child, you can deal with it appropriately. And that count just killed your only son? Who's your heir now? Your daughter? But she's married in the wrong way-her 5 children are in her fathers family. Well, time to smother some babies and kill your son in law. IT'S FOR THE GREATER GOOD.
Oh, would you look at that-that count's wife just gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. But if you execute it, people will think you're a tyrant! Wait, there's the solution: http://imgur.com/xCcu70e

IT WAS FOR THE GOOD OF THE REALM, GAME, STOP JUDGNG ME

Oh god, love it. Playing CK2 really does that to you. I've been playing the Game of Thrones mod and I've just been a horrible tyrant. A horrible tyrant with a magical sword and a dragon! Might=Right

 

[Nimzabaat]

Alpha Protocol. If you can get over the graphics and somewhat crappy animations it's a pretty morally grey game.

 

[Benpasko]

Alpha Protocol. If you can get over the graphics and somewhat crappy animations it's a pretty morally grey game.

I second this one, and E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy as someone above said. That game's not just morally grey, it's confusing and jank as fuck, in a brilliant kind of way. Get the true ending before you try to understand the storyline, it's nuts.

 

[Worgen]

Seriously, if you want a morally complex game, get Spec Ops: the Line, and the first time through it do the most asshole things you can think of when the option to comes up, trust me.

 

[Frission]

The games everyone listed are pretty good. I would also recommend the Geneforge series.

The setting is a world with a group of mages called "Shapers" who are capable of "shaping" or of creating life. They have a stranglehold on this power and jealously guard this power amongst them, making them the authority of this world. However, even if they sometimes act like tyrants, there is alot of good people amongst them and there are several instances where you are shown how shaping can go horribly wrong if not used responsibly.

Throughout the series you are confronted with some pretty tough decisions such as getting power at the cost of your sanity, trying to discern the best long term solution and judging by yourself which factions you agree with, since none of them are presented to be more noble than another, since they all sometimes do pretty terrible things.

I found it pretty interesting and it's an old style RPG.