Most video games star white males.
- Thread starter LilithSlave
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally believe that when buying a game the most important thing should be how much fun it is, not the ethnicity/religion of the main character. Also, the ethnicity of the buyer in comparison to a game protagonist shouldn't be a factor in deciding to get the game, and a black person not liking a game protagonist because they are white is just as racist as a white person not liking a game protagonist because they are black.Bocaj2000 said:
Also, I do feel like some games can add extra depth to a character by adding a differing religion, sexual preference, or race (Prey and Persona 4 come to mind), but I also feel that developers often just add a race to a character as an afterthought to make the game more politically correct.
It's true, many games star white protagonists. But does it matter?
-Black guy
Also are you counting Asian, African, and Spanish main characters? Sure there aren't as a whole as many as white main characters but it isn't as if there's an undercurrent to racism about what skin color the main characters race it. Pulling this guess out of my butt but I would guess that most game makers are white right? Many who play are white right? If the entire industry and fan base were predominantly black then there would be more black characters right? It's all about who is making and playing the games without racism being a factor. B.E.T has many black viewers and many of the shows star black people. Doesn't mean it's racist, it's just who is watching and who is *creating.
I'm curious LilithSlave. What race are you? I'm Black and Hispanic. Ghanian and Puerto Rican.
*is it just me or do Japanese games try to go for the European/American look for there characters? I'll be frank, I don't see any slanted eyes. I mean never. Can't think of one in a game ever. I know not all Asian people have slanted eyes of course but not even one in a game I can think of? Or Anime? What's up?*
-Black guy
Also are you counting Asian, African, and Spanish main characters? Sure there aren't as a whole as many as white main characters but it isn't as if there's an undercurrent to racism about what skin color the main characters race it. Pulling this guess out of my butt but I would guess that most game makers are white right? Many who play are white right? If the entire industry and fan base were predominantly black then there would be more black characters right? It's all about who is making and playing the games without racism being a factor. B.E.T has many black viewers and many of the shows star black people. Doesn't mean it's racist, it's just who is watching and who is *creating.
I'm curious LilithSlave. What race are you? I'm Black and Hispanic. Ghanian and Puerto Rican.
*is it just me or do Japanese games try to go for the European/American look for there characters? I'll be frank, I don't see any slanted eyes. I mean never. Can't think of one in a game ever. I know not all Asian people have slanted eyes of course but not even one in a game I can think of? Or Anime? What's up?*
Why are you saying this like it's a problem. People will make what they will. If they claim that white males are superior, then this would be an issue worth talking about. But just because most video games star white males, it doesn't mean there is a problem. I once read in a Steven King book, "Write what you know". I like to think that this applies to pretty much all forms of story telling. Many video game creators are white, thus they know first hand what it is like to be white. Thus, it is easier to make the main character a white male. If the majority of developers were of a different color than white, then in an alternate universe, this thread would be about how video games feature only black people, or asian people, or hispanic people. This just seems completely pointless to discuss in my opinion. It's just a given that the majority of developers would model the characters after their own race unless the setting of the game dictates that a specific race would be better. I don't really have much else to say.
I find it difficult to care what race my character is. I've played black guys, I've played Asian guys, I've played white guys, and all the female variants. They all play the same, anyway, so who cares?
Most gamers are white straight males, so they make main characters to appeal to said demographic.
It's really as simple as that.
Not that it matters, really. I mean I live in the Caribbean, I'm mixed East Indian, Black and White and I'm gay.
There are (as far as I know) literally no main characters like that (games with character creation aside). But it doesn't really bother me, if you're trying to tell a story, the character's race is really a non-issue.
It's really as simple as that.
Not that it matters, really. I mean I live in the Caribbean, I'm mixed East Indian, Black and White and I'm gay.
There are (as far as I know) literally no main characters like that (games with character creation aside). But it doesn't really bother me, if you're trying to tell a story, the character's race is really a non-issue.
Altair is from the Middle East. By extension, that means Desmond is mixed, to some extent. Ezio's pretty clearly white (not a descendant of Altair, by the way), but he's Italian, so, him being of a darker complexion would be pretty weird.LilithSlave said:
Link isn't technically human(he's a hylian. Note the pointy elvish ears), so it's questionable as to whether he really counts. Even if he does, the whole "elves are fair skinned" probably goes more into tradition and mythos rather than genuine bigotry.
Shepard can be any race or gender. Hell, even the default Shepard looks really mixed. Like, Tiger Woods Jessica Alba mixed.
It's understandable to be concerned over the implications that a great man games do indeed star white male leads. It's also understandable that a game developer would want their target demographic (which in the west, tends to be white males) to relate to the protagonist. This pretty much applies to many forms of media. Movies, tv shows, books, comic books especially.
For the more Eastern side, it's a bit complex.
This tv tropes article describes it better than I could.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mukokuseki
I know you probably aren't all white. But I know most of you are in this thread and this site. There is something you need to know about brown people... many many many of us think IT'S FUCKING HILARIOUS WHEN YOU GUYS BICKER ABOUT RACE. We got you bitches wound up like a mother fucker.
If you could see and read all of these responses from a non white point of view. t all reads like a bad joke.
If you could see and read all of these responses from a non white point of view. t all reads like a bad joke.
Well, Sazh can be explained simply by the fact that every FF character is kind of gangly and outlandish, I did like him and Barret though, but Square did a really good job back with Daniel from Parasite Eve, he was a great character and his race wasn't really a part of his personality, his loyalty was.kloiberin_time said:
Well as someone else stated, anime designs as we know them now developed from the early manga of the 60's, one of the most popular artists Osamu Tezuka (Astro Boy), was heavily influenced by Disney and the look just kind of stuck and slowly evolved into the Japanese manga/anime styles we know now. The funny thing is, whenever someone says that the character looks anglo/ European, as true as it is, the Japanese do consider them whole-heartedly Japanese.NotSoLoneWanderer said:
Another good point. However it doesn't really explain that trend in asian/japan made games. Sure most of the developers there are male, but the fact that they are still making predominantly white protagonists is rather strange.yunabomb said:
Oh, good. Someone read a book for a humanities course and thinks that they discovered a term like "White privilege". This thread is ALWAYS fun.
Look, most people in the United States (the largest market for video games) are white. Most of the market for big budget games within that demo are male. Know your customer. It's a central tenet of business.
Suggesting that there's some sort of collusion-based social institution that secretly encourages racism with some sort of ulterior motive when there is a MUCH SIMPLER EXPLANATION is a rationalization created by weak-minded paranoid schizophrenics to explain why their own racism is justified.
Congrats. You bought into their fantasy.
Plus, way to go on selecting two games that allow for character customization that will allow you to create a character of any demographic and accusing them of being racist. "This game allows me to pick ANY race or gender! Clearly this is an example of white male privilege!" Please...
Look, most people in the United States (the largest market for video games) are white. Most of the market for big budget games within that demo are male. Know your customer. It's a central tenet of business.
Suggesting that there's some sort of collusion-based social institution that secretly encourages racism with some sort of ulterior motive when there is a MUCH SIMPLER EXPLANATION is a rationalization created by weak-minded paranoid schizophrenics to explain why their own racism is justified.
Congrats. You bought into their fantasy.
Plus, way to go on selecting two games that allow for character customization that will allow you to create a character of any demographic and accusing them of being racist. "This game allows me to pick ANY race or gender! Clearly this is an example of white male privilege!" Please...
Of course it doesn't bother most of you.Why should it? Most of you ARE white males.As a female gamer,personally I get sick of having to play a bloke in 95% of games.When I ask most of my male friends if they'd play a woman,most of them go,"Hell,no,it breaks the fantasy of me being in the adventure."And then you just expect women to suck it up and not complain that WE are denied the same thing.I don't mind playing as a bloke SOMETIMES,but it would be nice to have the OPTION to play as a female chr more often.I imagine being black or asian it's a bit of a drag to hardly ever play your race either.
The answer would simply be to do a Mass Effect more often and enable the player to choose the sex/race of the hero e.g an extension of the Shep/Femshep option.Surely it wouldn't be THAT much more work for the developer?I don't expect guys to be forced to play as women more than they're comfortable with,I would just like the choice of playing as my own sex to increase my immersion in the game.
Think of it this way:why do you think you can now buy black/asian barbies? It helps with the suspension of disbelief,and is more inclusive than just providing white dolls.All of us like to see ourselves represented in popular media/fiction.Why shouldn't it be the same in games?
Also, female gamers wouldn't be so uncommon.Your wife/girlfriend/would ***** less about the 40 hrs a week you spend gaming if she could see an escapist fantasy in your game that appeals to her.And escapist fantasies usually include being the same gender.
I get it that game designers are going after the dominant demographic.But by including us non-penis toting persons,they just might increase their appeal and thus their sales.
Girls and non-whites game too,y'know.We just wanna be heroes of an adventure as well.Why is that so hard to understand?
The answer would simply be to do a Mass Effect more often and enable the player to choose the sex/race of the hero e.g an extension of the Shep/Femshep option.Surely it wouldn't be THAT much more work for the developer?I don't expect guys to be forced to play as women more than they're comfortable with,I would just like the choice of playing as my own sex to increase my immersion in the game.
Think of it this way:why do you think you can now buy black/asian barbies? It helps with the suspension of disbelief,and is more inclusive than just providing white dolls.All of us like to see ourselves represented in popular media/fiction.Why shouldn't it be the same in games?
Also, female gamers wouldn't be so uncommon.Your wife/girlfriend/would ***** less about the 40 hrs a week you spend gaming if she could see an escapist fantasy in your game that appeals to her.And escapist fantasies usually include being the same gender.
I get it that game designers are going after the dominant demographic.But by including us non-penis toting persons,they just might increase their appeal and thus their sales.
Girls and non-whites game too,y'know.We just wanna be heroes of an adventure as well.Why is that so hard to understand?
How is it white "privilege" if I'm just going to take nathan drake and jump of cliffs and get beaten up by pirates, that's not a privilege that's a punishment. All kidding aside though, you're dead wrong, yes racism still exists, having the majority of characters in a genre be one breed of human or another though is not racism, it's just coincidence and practicality.
Don't you think it would be more racist if the only reason for including a non-white person in a game is because the game "needs to have one?"
That's another thing, why does a game need to have someone to represent all races? If someone were to boycott a game because the protagonist was a white male that would be just as bad, if not worse, than someone complaining about the character not being a white male. For instance, I could make the argument that white men are appropriately represented in sports games, even though white men make up a majority of the country's population.
I think the reason for white men being portrayed more often as the lead roles in a game has a little with actual decision making. Most game creators are white men, so when a bunch of white men a character, the viewpoint that is the easiest to represent are those of a white man.
That's another thing, why does a game need to have someone to represent all races? If someone were to boycott a game because the protagonist was a white male that would be just as bad, if not worse, than someone complaining about the character not being a white male. For instance, I could make the argument that white men are appropriately represented in sports games, even though white men make up a majority of the country's population.
I think the reason for white men being portrayed more often as the lead roles in a game has a little with actual decision making. Most game creators are white men, so when a bunch of white men a character, the viewpoint that is the easiest to represent are those of a white man.
I think that's a terrible idea. When the protagonist is fully customizable, he/she/it loses their CHARACTER. Quick... who's your favorite Mass Effect character? I guaran-fucking-tee you didn't just say "Shepard". Wanna know why? Because Shepard has to be a boring wet blanket in order to fit everyone's idea of who that person should be. Bioware games have their place, but I'm glad there are games that don't adopt that model and actually tell a concise story.AusGamer44 said:
Whites and Asians will be the majority of game main character because of who makes the games. It's not racism. If more minority groups made video games this wouldn't be a problem.
Look at this video game from Kenya. Guess what? No white people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drxql-ktn4Y
Are they Not entirely sure why so many Asian games have white looking characters. It might have something to do with how anime characters are drawn. I think the rounder eyes are more expressive from a distance. If anybody knows what the real reason is, please tell.being racist?
Look at this video game from Kenya. Guess what? No white people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drxql-ktn4Y
Are they Not entirely sure why so many Asian games have white looking characters. It might have something to do with how anime characters are drawn. I think the rounder eyes are more expressive from a distance. If anybody knows what the real reason is, please tell.being racist?
So I read the first four pages, and then quit half-way through page 5 and just finished up page 6.
I feel like I have to comment after all that reading I did. So here's my opinion for whatever it's worth.
First off, I can most assuredly say that LilithSlave is kind of weird:
Also this person is not at all eloquent in making any real points other than pointing out the fact that "There are games with white protagonist".
Before going any further I think it's important that when having a discussion everyone fully and completely explain the definition of every term they use that the other party may not completely understand. Like so:
Although, it would be better not to insult the person you are conversing with though.
After reflecting on the issue of race in games (and in media in general I suppose) I can say one thing for sure. As of right now there doesn't seem to be a universal solution that can be applied. So, there probably isn't any proven "right" answer as things are in the present.
These are my thoughts on the whole character creation thing.
Yes, in more recent times there is often a character creation/customization option that allows one to say "The main character isn't American/European looking at all, the main character can be whatever you want!" The nit I have to pick about this is the fact that the semantic point can be made is that my Commander Shepherd can be an Asian man,[sub]2[/sub] but the Commander Shepherd is the man on the box/poster/advertisements. That's clearly the design that the people behind the game felt best represented who they wanted to be the main character. When I discuss the character of Commander Shepherd with others they couldn't possibly know what my personal creation looked like and so, the "default" image that everyone thinks of when they hear Commanders Shepherd is that man on the box.
After a quick google search, I have to say that it seems that Fallout 3 did a semi-good job in hiding what their protagonist looks like, and so cheers to them.^^
Honestly, as an Asian man I can say that the number of white[sub]3[/sub] kind of disturbing when contrasted with the lack of Asian protagonists (in the games that I have played)[sub]4[/sub]. I can tell everyone here that I was absolutely ecstatic, overjoyed, filled with delight when I saw Hope as the main protagonist of Mirror's Edge. Never before had I seen an Asian female protagonist that wasn't at all being overtly "sexy" or portrayed as a "stereotypical oriental". She was just an Asian woman, that was all. That's just a little story of mine that I felt like sharing. I think it is a little too easy for "white" male gamers to take for granted the fact that there is quite an abundance of "white" male protagonists.
I have read many posters simply saying that many developers are "white" guys--->they write about "white" guys, or many video game consumers are "white"--->"white" guys will be the most profitable. Okay, so where is this statistic coming from? Just curious.^^ Please inform my unaware mind.
I feel like I have more to say, but I have homework that must be done. :3 I do find it interesting how quickly the majority of the posters here are to brush off or defend the fact that the issue being raised is not an issue at all. [sub]5[/sub]
[sub]1.I honestly can't tell how this thread is defining the term white so instead I'll say American or European.[/sub]
[sub]2. Well I got him to be Shepherd to look about as Asian as I could. That character creation system Bioware has going on is difficult for me. xD[/sub]
[sub]3. I am just going to use white in this case because it feels more natural to type, but please if I am using the term incorrectly, let me know.[/sub]
[sub]4. If anyone out there happens to know a lot of games where the main protagonist is Asian, please do let me know.[/sub]
[sub]5. Although I suppose it didn't help that the poster gives off the slight impression of being just slightly crazy.[/sub]
I feel like I have to comment after all that reading I did. So here's my opinion for whatever it's worth.
First off, I can most assuredly say that LilithSlave is kind of weird:
I have absolutely no idea what that statement means at all based on how it is phrased.LilithSlave said:
Also this person is not at all eloquent in making any real points other than pointing out the fact that "There are games with white protagonist".
Before going any further I think it's important that when having a discussion everyone fully and completely explain the definition of every term they use that the other party may not completely understand. Like so:
Personal note:Good job ms sunlight.ms_sunlight said:
Although, it would be better not to insult the person you are conversing with though. After reflecting on the issue of race in games (and in media in general I suppose) I can say one thing for sure. As of right now there doesn't seem to be a universal solution that can be applied. So, there probably isn't any proven "right" answer as things are in the present.
These are my thoughts on the whole character creation thing.
Yes, in more recent times there is often a character creation/customization option that allows one to say "The main character isn't American/European looking at all, the main character can be whatever you want!" The nit I have to pick about this is the fact that the semantic point can be made is that my Commander Shepherd can be an Asian man,[sub]2[/sub] but the Commander Shepherd is the man on the box/poster/advertisements. That's clearly the design that the people behind the game felt best represented who they wanted to be the main character. When I discuss the character of Commander Shepherd with others they couldn't possibly know what my personal creation looked like and so, the "default" image that everyone thinks of when they hear Commanders Shepherd is that man on the box.
After a quick google search, I have to say that it seems that Fallout 3 did a semi-good job in hiding what their protagonist looks like, and so cheers to them.^^
Honestly, as an Asian man I can say that the number of white[sub]3[/sub] kind of disturbing when contrasted with the lack of Asian protagonists (in the games that I have played)[sub]4[/sub]. I can tell everyone here that I was absolutely ecstatic, overjoyed, filled with delight when I saw Hope as the main protagonist of Mirror's Edge. Never before had I seen an Asian female protagonist that wasn't at all being overtly "sexy" or portrayed as a "stereotypical oriental". She was just an Asian woman, that was all. That's just a little story of mine that I felt like sharing.
I think it is a little too easy for "white" male gamers to take for granted the fact that there is quite an abundance of "white" male protagonists.I have read many posters simply saying that many developers are "white" guys--->they write about "white" guys, or many video game consumers are "white"--->"white" guys will be the most profitable. Okay, so where is this statistic coming from? Just curious.^^ Please inform my unaware mind.
I feel like I have more to say, but I have homework that must be done. :3 I do find it interesting how quickly the majority of the posters here are to brush off or defend the fact that the issue being raised is not an issue at all. [sub]5[/sub]
[sub]1.I honestly can't tell how this thread is defining the term white so instead I'll say American or European.[/sub]
[sub]2. Well I got him to be Shepherd to look about as Asian as I could.
That character creation system Bioware has going on is difficult for me. xD[/sub][sub]3. I am just going to use white in this case because it feels more natural to type, but please if I am using the term incorrectly, let me know.
[/sub][sub]4. If anyone out there happens to know a lot of games where the main protagonist is Asian, please do let me know.
[/sub][sub]5. Although I suppose it didn't help that the poster gives off the slight impression of being just slightly crazy.[/sub]
quantumsoul said:
Random thought. But i seem to remember an article talking about one of the reasons that some Japanese gamers tended to avoid FPS games(aside from mad motion sickness) was a desire to know they were some completely different character. They couldn't properly escape into the game world unless they saw that plump mustachioed Italian guy or elf or whatever character you are.
I could see the same translating to this style of Japanese v.g. characters. They have to be drastically different or exaggerated versions of reality for escape purposes.