To be honest I never really got what was so bad about the prequel trilogy, but then again I was never really a big star wars fan, so there's that.
Movie Defense Force: Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
The first portion of the video prior to the opening sequence says it all, Jim. If Lucas was put on a shorter leash and took more input from others, perhaps the Star Wars prequels would have turned out better.
Nice defense on the Phantom Menace, Jim. Have you considered teaming up with fellow Escapist member Bob "Moviebob" Chipman for either a future Movie Defense Force episode or another project? Just a thought.
Nice defense on the Phantom Menace, Jim. Have you considered teaming up with fellow Escapist member Bob "Moviebob" Chipman for either a future Movie Defense Force episode or another project? Just a thought.
Intro was dead-on. Of course, even Lucas doesn't seem to understand that; he accused Irving Kershner of "ruining" his film (said film being Empire Strikes Back). I'm not sure I agree with Jim on podracing 100%, though I do like the idea of it existing in the Star Wars universe. I guess it's kind of like Quidditch in that respect: a neat world-building sideshow that a novel could get past in a chapter, but tends to drag on in a movie since it ends up being filmed as if the audience were already fans of this fictional sport, and thus drags on.
EDIT: Also, Attack of the Clones can go straight to hell. I rank it by far the worst of the prequels. Most of the annoying parts of Phantom Menace were peripheral to the main story, and while seeing Darth Vader as a bratty 9-year-old does diminish his stature somewhat, most 9-year-olds are brats so I don't hold it against him. It's like baby pictures - no one looks more dignified when you've seen them as a baby. But then skip ahead a decade and it turns out he was a whiny brat for his whole life. At least now we know where Luke gets it from (at least his whining was watered down by his significantly-more-badass mother).
EDIT: Also, Attack of the Clones can go straight to hell. I rank it by far the worst of the prequels. Most of the annoying parts of Phantom Menace were peripheral to the main story, and while seeing Darth Vader as a bratty 9-year-old does diminish his stature somewhat, most 9-year-olds are brats so I don't hold it against him. It's like baby pictures - no one looks more dignified when you've seen them as a baby. But then skip ahead a decade and it turns out he was a whiny brat for his whole life. At least now we know where Luke gets it from (at least his whining was watered down by his significantly-more-badass mother).
I don't ever argue that Phantom Menace is the worst of the prequels and I never had. I actually kinda liked it when I first saw it, though never as much as the original movies. It was only when I started analyzing it that I started to dislike it, because I think that Jim's right that there are things about it that are done well. Phantom Menace's real problems (aside from the midi-chlorians, which do earn my ire) are structural - and occasionally logical. Phantom Menace could have worked with a few changes in structure, a couple of scenes removed and a few more added to flesh out characterization.
Even Jar-Jar could have worked. I do understand that he's comparable to a minstrel show black stereotype, but consider this: A New Hope was built around the idea of telling the story from the lowest class (the droids in that case). Considering that, I think what George was aiming at with Jar-Jar was a similar idea and the fact that he becomes a hero (accidentally, but whatever) that affects a significant part of the battle undercuts the racism, or at least in Goerge's mind. The problem wasn't Jar-Jar itself as a concept, the problem was one of presentation. Of course, in theory that works, but in practice all it would do is offend people and had George had anyone willing to point this out to him, I think Jar-Jar could have been recharacterized in a way that works. That's what makes Jar-Jar so infuriating for me. He would have worked, but for the ineptitude of the execution.
Personally, I hold Revenge of the Sith as the worst of the prequels. The movie had no plot aside from "go here and kill things" and it's action was overlong and boring. It doesn't matter how impressive the CGI was, or even how well choreographed the action might have been (I didn't find it all that impressive anyway), with a plot that anemic and nonsensical, I didn't care about any of it.
Even Jar-Jar could have worked. I do understand that he's comparable to a minstrel show black stereotype, but consider this: A New Hope was built around the idea of telling the story from the lowest class (the droids in that case). Considering that, I think what George was aiming at with Jar-Jar was a similar idea and the fact that he becomes a hero (accidentally, but whatever) that affects a significant part of the battle undercuts the racism, or at least in Goerge's mind. The problem wasn't Jar-Jar itself as a concept, the problem was one of presentation. Of course, in theory that works, but in practice all it would do is offend people and had George had anyone willing to point this out to him, I think Jar-Jar could have been recharacterized in a way that works. That's what makes Jar-Jar so infuriating for me. He would have worked, but for the ineptitude of the execution.
Personally, I hold Revenge of the Sith as the worst of the prequels. The movie had no plot aside from "go here and kill things" and it's action was overlong and boring. It doesn't matter how impressive the CGI was, or even how well choreographed the action might have been (I didn't find it all that impressive anyway), with a plot that anemic and nonsensical, I didn't care about any of it.
I was 6 years old when The Phantom Menace came out. I loved it when I was a kid, it was a film I could watch again and again and still be entertained by.
Yes I realised years later how goddamn awful it was but really there's no point in still being upset about it. Once you realise it's a kids movie made to sell toys it's kind of hard to still feel angry about it. It's basically the same as Transformers or Power Rangers.
Yes I realised years later how goddamn awful it was but really there's no point in still being upset about it. Once you realise it's a kids movie made to sell toys it's kind of hard to still feel angry about it. It's basically the same as Transformers or Power Rangers.
Well that was an odd episode. All the others, at least that I've seen, have argued that a generally disliked film is actually good. This one just said that a shit film may have had a few bits that weren't quite so terrible as the rest of it if you happen to look at them in the dark with the light behind them. As defences go, I won't be asking Jim to be my lawyer.
Yeah, that's the real problem with it. In isolation, it's a mildly entertaining and flashy bit of sci-fi schlock. I've certainly seen much worse. But it's not in isolation. It's both a prequel to an existing trilogy and the first part of its own new trilogy. It just doesn't make much sense to judge it without taking that into account.Tombsite said:
I was thinking about this yesterday, as someone who's not invested in Star Wars, I actually enjoyed the first two prequals even if the kid/adult they got to play Annarkin were aweful. The action is good and some of the new characters were really enjoyable, not to mention it gave us Tartakovskys series:
Also, Gungans > Ewoks, don't look me in the face and tell me that the Ewoks 'worked', they fucking didn't.
I, personally, hate the 3rd film but even that had the 'Order 66' scene, which was REALLY good.
Also, Gungans > Ewoks, don't look me in the face and tell me that the Ewoks 'worked', they fucking didn't.
I, personally, hate the 3rd film but even that had the 'Order 66' scene, which was REALLY good.
Phantom Menace is a really horrible film, is it as bad as Star wars fans make it out to be? Not really. The film had some really good action scenes, the pod racing was enjoyable, it had Liam Neeson, one of my favourite actors and Jar Jar Binks.....well..... ok fair enough, I really hate him, but he didn't ruin the whole film
Agreed, but I pretty much expect that from child actors(except the ones from Game of Thrones), but at least Lloyd was only in the first one, but I agree with Jim that at least it's not Attack of the Clones were Anakin is played by Hayden ChristensenWorgen said:
That cartoon was actually one of the best star wars fight pieces I've seen in a while. The sheer desperation of the jedi and the way they fought didn't seem coordinated but rather what it would look like if someone was desperately trying to stay alive in my opinion.PunkRex said:
One similarity I found in the previous video of the darth maul fight scene and the cartoon was in the cartoon @ 4:40 the jedi with the turban followed the video's directions of holding his saber way away from his enemy and it resulted in him getting grabbed and face planted into the ground.
Also how pathetic was general grevious in the 3rd movie compared to that cartoon. I wish we would of got something like the cartoon style fights.
Well, I feel the acting is sub par, not that the prequels have that much better acting though. I can kind of excuse the CGI (or lack thereof), but not the Ewoks and throwing stones at armored storm troopers knocks them out. Meh, the fight scenes are still boring, and the whole Light versus Dark side in every fight does not ring a bell with me.trty00 said:
It's a shame that the fantastic cartoon here was officially retconned so Lucas could make that movie/show with Ashoka. I've heard that new Clone Wars show is good (although it's now canceled), but I couldn't get over the fact that the awesome Tartakovsky cartoon was canned.PunkRex said:
So, here is how I tolerate all the crap surrounding what the prequels did to the saga... And it's thanks to more creative and thoughtful individuals than me...
First up, The Phantom Edit.
Fan made edit of Episode one that removes alot of the unnecessary crap that made it so hard to watch at points.
Can't remember where I found my copy (Place might have been called buccaneercove.no or something) but it's worth looking out for as a good example of what a little restraint can add to the tone.
He kept in the "Are you an angel?" line and possibly the "Spinning is good" but most of the pointless lines are removed...
One thing I liked that Jim might disagree on is that the speech of the droids is edited to be quite minimum. They keep their same character but now they trade looks and pretty much just say "Roger roger".
Secondly, The Machete Order.
I think I first heard about this on an escapist forum somewhere but it's also pretty easy to google.
It describes an ideal viewing order for those of us looking to introduce someone to the complete saga for the first time without spoiling either the "Father" or the "Sister" surprises.
He even points out that skipping Episode 1 sets the story better.
Read it and see if it doesn't sound like a tasty method.
http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/
First up, The Phantom Edit.
Fan made edit of Episode one that removes alot of the unnecessary crap that made it so hard to watch at points.
Can't remember where I found my copy (Place might have been called buccaneercove.no or something) but it's worth looking out for as a good example of what a little restraint can add to the tone.
He kept in the "Are you an angel?" line and possibly the "Spinning is good" but most of the pointless lines are removed...
One thing I liked that Jim might disagree on is that the speech of the droids is edited to be quite minimum. They keep their same character but now they trade looks and pretty much just say "Roger roger".
Secondly, The Machete Order.
I think I first heard about this on an escapist forum somewhere but it's also pretty easy to google.
It describes an ideal viewing order for those of us looking to introduce someone to the complete saga for the first time without spoiling either the "Father" or the "Sister" surprises.
He even points out that skipping Episode 1 sets the story better.
Read it and see if it doesn't sound like a tasty method.
http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/
I actually kind of enjoyed Attack of the Clones. There were just assorted parts in the movie that I liked, such as the cloning facility, Jango Fett, Sand People murder, Slave 1 chase, Coruscant, Natalie Portman factory sequence, Jedi battle, and the Yoda battle. I'm not saying it adds up to a legitimately "good" movie, but it's one I'll glaze over at when it's on the TV.
The only good thing I can say about The Phantom Menace is that at least it has physical sets and scenes shot on location, in comparison to the rest of the films.
And Jar-Jar's annoying presence is overshadowed only by Jake Lloyd's. I wanted to field kick that kid into a cactus patch.
I will say I've always liked the look of the droids, they have a very neat design. Unfortunately this is all rendered meaningless, since there's zero sense of threat to them. They're just there for the Jedi to cut 'm down.
And Jar-Jar's annoying presence is overshadowed only by Jake Lloyd's. I wanted to field kick that kid into a cactus patch.
I will say I've always liked the look of the droids, they have a very neat design. Unfortunately this is all rendered meaningless, since there's zero sense of threat to them. They're just there for the Jedi to cut 'm down.
It's a pop-corn muncher space flick on par with Independence Day. But that's not what Star Wars was about, so I feel the pain of other fans. However, unlike Independence Day, Episode 1 had the lore of 3 other movies to fuck with.