MovieBob leaving The Escapist

Lono Shrugged

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LostGryphon said:
...That was "arrogant and combative" to you? Were we reading the same post?
Archon said:
*Pet peeve: Josh and I are not "new management". I wrote the Escapist's original business plan, raised the money to launch it, came up with name, and hired and managed all of its EICs. Josh, the new EIC, has worked for Themis-Alloy-Defy since 2004. So, yeah.
Perfectly willing to accept I am being overly harsh. But I work in media and when someone feels the need to so explain how important and senior they are as opposed to actually actively engaging the communities' concerns I tend to be unimpressed.

You will notice he never even mentioned Bob's name or wish him luck even though this thread is about Bob. He really came in to settle down everyone who is talking about leaving or cancelling pub club accounts by talking about new pitches, new content, mobile sites and other things that are irrelevant to the the concerns raised in this thread. Putting a lid on it is all that post felt like to me.

The "So, yeah" came across combative because it assumes I should be impressed or automatically give him the same credit I would give to Susan, Russ or Greg. I am not impressed by titles or corporate speak.

Not meaning any personal offence.
 

Lono Shrugged

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I was checking out Bob's faq and I came across this quote:

Moviebob said:
To have it end all at once, after such a long partnership, was a shock to the system, deeply disappointing and (while the parting was indeed entirely amicable) has left me very shaken and terribly sad - I don't handle change very well, and earlier today I was having a conversation where the subject of movie screenings happening this week came up, and it took a moment for it to occur to me that I had no reason to care what the big movie for this weekend was going to be because there'd be no Escape to The Movies on Friday or ever again... and I don't mind telling you it was a mildly devastating moment to have creep up on me.

This sums up what I had become to dislike about Bob. He "does not care what the big movie is" I had articulated this in some posts I made before I stopped watching. He never seemed to actually love movies. He loved talking about them but he often complained about his job and the quality of the movies he watched. He always seemed to have such a limited appreciation and often would complain about movies as opposed to accepting that people had different tastes.

It was a real turn off for me. I love the movies. Even terrible ones. I saw 50 shades of Grey in the cinema and I thought it was garbage. But I still felt that glow of excitement at a new film to experience to analyze and digest. I may not like a movie. But I inherently have a love and respect for all movies. I don't get that feeling from him.
 

Shaidz

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Soo yeah, Jim's gone, Bob's gone, LRR has finished...all that's left is ZP and Feed Dump. Escapist, i have been coming to you every day for like the last 5 years and it seems our time together is coming to a close, oh well.
 

Gizmo1990

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Lono Shrugged said:
I was checking out Bob's faq and I came across this quote:

Moviebob said:
To have it end all at once, after such a long partnership, was a shock to the system, deeply disappointing and (while the parting was indeed entirely amicable) has left me very shaken and terribly sad - I don't handle change very well, and earlier today I was having a conversation where the subject of movie screenings happening this week came up, and it took a moment for it to occur to me that I had no reason to care what the big movie for this weekend was going to be because there'd be no Escape to The Movies on Friday or ever again... and I don't mind telling you it was a mildly devastating moment to have creep up on me.

This sums up what I had become to dislike about Bob. He "does not care what the big movie is" I had articulated this in some posts I made before I stopped watching. He never seemed to actually love movies. He loved talking about them but he often complained about his job and the quality of the movies he watched. He always seemed to have such a limited appreciation and often would complain about movies as opposed to accepting that people had different tastes.

It was a real turn off for me. I love the movies. Even terrible ones. I saw 50 shades of Grey in the cinema and I thought it was garbage. But I still felt that glow of excitement at a new film to experience to analyze and digest. I may not like a movie. But I inherently have a love and respect for all movies. I don't get that feeling from him.
Could not agree more. I still watched his reviews as they were still helpfull from time to time but I am not going to make the effot to follow his work now he is gone. Also reading the faq I noticed that when he askes people to keep coming to The Escapist to support the people who are still here he lists everyone but Yahtzee. Think I am reading too much into that or does he have a problem with him?
 

Lono Shrugged

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Gizmo1990 said:
I noticed that when he askes people to keep coming to The Escapist to support the people who are still here he lists everyone but Yahtzee. Think I am reading too much into that or does he have a problem with him?

I think you hit the nail on the head. He, Jim and Yahtzee used to do that discussion column from time to time and he used to never seem to have the well rounded argument. Jim and Yahtzee had their poetry competition and he was not invited to that party even though he is technically a writer.
I could not find any mention of Bob leaving on either of their twitters. Not even a "best of luck" let alone a plug for his Patreon.

Usually when someone doesn't like someone they just say nothing. I also get the feeling that Jim and Yahtzee don't take themselves too seriously and Bob takes Himself WAAYYY too seriously: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-FNGxoCAAACK_x.png:large (from a twitter post by @phonyphantomR)
 

The Bucket

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Gizmo1990 said:
Lono Shrugged said:
I was checking out Bob's faq and I came across this quote:

Moviebob said:
To have it end all at once, after such a long partnership, was a shock to the system, deeply disappointing and (while the parting was indeed entirely amicable) has left me very shaken and terribly sad - I don't handle change very well, and earlier today I was having a conversation where the subject of movie screenings happening this week came up, and it took a moment for it to occur to me that I had no reason to care what the big movie for this weekend was going to be because there'd be no Escape to The Movies on Friday or ever again... and I don't mind telling you it was a mildly devastating moment to have creep up on me.

This sums up what I had become to dislike about Bob. He "does not care what the big movie is" I had articulated this in some posts I made before I stopped watching. He never seemed to actually love movies. He loved talking about them but he often complained about his job and the quality of the movies he watched. He always seemed to have such a limited appreciation and often would complain about movies as opposed to accepting that people had different tastes.

It was a real turn off for me. I love the movies. Even terrible ones. I saw 50 shades of Grey in the cinema and I thought it was garbage. But I still felt that glow of excitement at a new film to experience to analyze and digest. I may not like a movie. But I inherently have a love and respect for all movies. I don't get that feeling from him.
Could not agree more. I still watched his reviews as they were still helpfull from time to time but I am not going to make the effot to follow his work now he is gone. Also reading the faq I noticed that when he askes people to keep coming to The Escapist to support the people who are still here he lists everyone but Yahtzee. Think I am reading too much into that or does he have a problem with him?
He doesnt mention Miracle of Sound either, who he's retweeted a ton of stuff off previously and seems to get on well with. I wouldnt read too much into it personally

Lono Shrugged said:
Gizmo1990 said:
I noticed that when he askes people to keep coming to The Escapist to support the people who are still here he lists everyone but Yahtzee. Think I am reading too much into that or does he have a problem with him?

I think you hit the nail on the head. He, Jim and Yahtzee used to do that discussion column from time to time and he used to never seem to have the well rounded argument. Jim and Yahtzee had their poetry competition and he was not invited to that party even though he is technically a writer. I could not find any mention of Bob leaving on either of their twitters. Not even a "best of luck" let alone a plug for his Patreon. Usually when someone doesn't like someone they just say nothing. I also get the feeling that Jim and Yahtzee don't take themselves too seriously and Bob takes Himself WAAYYY too seriously: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-FNGxoCAAACK_x.png:large (from a twitter post by @phonyphantomR)
The only time I remember him mentioning Yahtzee is when people asked him about his whole rebuttal to the master race controversy. I cant remember what he said exactly, but it was more or less "I dont know what his politics are, I dont agree with him but i've always found him a good bloke" to paraphrase I think.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Gizmo1990 said:
Also reading the faq I noticed that when he askes people to keep coming to The Escapist to support the people who are still here he lists everyone but Yahtzee. Think I am reading too much into that or does he have a problem with him?
I said this exact same thing in an earlier post: every time he talks about "the excellent content-producers of The Escapist" he mentions everybody bar Yahtzee. I get the impression that Bob doesn't care much for him, even if his schtick is basically to copy Yahtzee's non-stop cadence with a Boston accent. It occurs to me it's because of Yahtzee's unusual silence regarding... well, everything Bob blabbers about on Twitter. Yahtzee keeps quiet and does his thing while just about everybody else - Bob chief among them - wastes time lambasting one another on social media. Maybe Bob considers Yahtzee's neutrality harmful to his cause, seeing as how Yahtzee holds the largest fanbase of them all yet doesn't rally them in any particular direction.

Were I in Bob's shoes I would envy Yahtzee. He gets all the fame and none of the hatred (at least his detractors seem to be more indifferent towards him rather than outright hateful, unlike Bob's). Also Yahtzee has kept his show relatively "pure" if you will. The guy is about videogames. Period. He doesn't muck about with politics or social media issues, he doesn't champion internet celebs or condemn public figures. Most importantly, he's not that invested in convincing you about anything. Whereas Bob wants to talk about everything to everybody all the time. He wants to sell you his favorite shows, and his favorite movies, and his favorite comics, and his favorite games, and his favorite people, and fuck anybody who doesn't agree with him.
 

Random Gamer

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Archon said:
As founder of the site, and publisher since Day 1*, I want The Escapist to succeed and grow. I think it is smarter to restructure now for the future that's fast arriving than to wait until it's too late. That means painful decisions now. That was our January and February: 50 days of pain.
Well, hopefully the days of painful decisions are entirely over now.
Good luck to all of you!
 

KazeAizen

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faefrost said:
KazeAizen said:
That's an economic fallacy and ideological bullshit. There are no better newer people. If you mistreat group A group B will not line up to be your customers. It's a basic customer service and sales concept. "Don't accuse the customers as a group of rape". The only way to get better newer people is to treat the people you have with courtesy and respect and provide them with the service they are looking for. There is no winning strategy in tossing away your existing consumers in favor of some imagined holy grail better customer. Many businesses have tried. They generally fail horribly and quickly.

See the problem is the "internet asshole" schtick only works while you are getting paid on a per click basis. People will watch assholes. People will be outraged, but they will still watch. But the pool of people who will actively pay for assholes is far smaller and already stretched to capacity. Bob can survive on a site like the Escapist because he is part of a broader mixed offering. Different views, different opinions, an amalgamation that people find value in as a whole. But for Bob or Jim or any producer to provide value to an audience directly paying for them and only them, well the first thing they may find is the limiting factor on being an asshole.
Now you are tossing out the buzz words and there is literally no faster way for me to not care about what you have to say when those start being trotted out. Actually there are better and newer people. People find web personalities all the time and while I will admit that in this case "better" is very subjective there is such a thing. Like say someone who gets offended at any of those comments decides he doesn't want to follow Bob anymore however another person who has never heard of him stumbles across the article and goes "You know what those aren't exactly bad or wrong accusations. I like this guy's stuff." Now he has a new follower that is "better" in that its someone open to thinking about things beyond mere words on a page.

You are assuming though that that is all Bob and possibly Jim have when you make that statement and that is blatantly false. People just like to amplify the times they are "assholes" and usually when they are "assholes" to the consumers its because the consumers that they are talking about are indeed assholes. Everyone with a brain knows who they are talking about when they talk down to people in GG or whatever the movement of the week is. If you partake in that sort of harassment or general nastiness they are talking about you. If you don't they aren't talking about you.
 

Caffiene

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Archon said:
We're getting lots of great pitches, some from old veterans
Would this be an opportune time to mention that 5 years later (...wow) I still have a number of your Check For Traps articles bookmarked? ;)
Just saying.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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Its funny that people these days seem to sum up gaming websites by video content first and actual news/journalism text content as more of an afterthought (unless its a column). Even the webcomics get more attention than the news/editorials.

Personally I'm not worried, I'm here, lurking still, reading content, watching (admittedly less) videos and seeing a change happen. Change can be better, change can be worse, but change can't be stopped. It happens everywhere, in everything and has to happen for things to grow.

Growth isn't always about gaining mass of a sort, sometimes its a metamorphosis of form and function.

Escapist will either live on, in a different format than before, maybe having less here and there and more in other places. Hopefully it will continue to grow and change. It all depends on who's behind the wheel, and how willing and passionate they are for what they're doing and what they bring to us, the consumer.

We may come here, interact here, and get some of our news here, but we have to respect the guys who bring it to us too and put our faith in their ability to deliver. Criticize them? Sure... just keep it classy.

Stay classy Escapist!
 

faefrost

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KazeAizen said:
faefrost said:
KazeAizen said:
That's an economic fallacy and ideological bullshit. There are no better newer people. If you mistreat group A group B will not line up to be your customers. It's a basic customer service and sales concept. "Don't accuse the customers as a group of rape". The only way to get better newer people is to treat the people you have with courtesy and respect and provide them with the service they are looking for. There is no winning strategy in tossing away your existing consumers in favor of some imagined holy grail better customer. Many businesses have tried. They generally fail horribly and quickly.

See the problem is the "internet asshole" schtick only works while you are getting paid on a per click basis. People will watch assholes. People will be outraged, but they will still watch. But the pool of people who will actively pay for assholes is far smaller and already stretched to capacity. Bob can survive on a site like the Escapist because he is part of a broader mixed offering. Different views, different opinions, an amalgamation that people find value in as a whole. But for Bob or Jim or any producer to provide value to an audience directly paying for them and only them, well the first thing they may find is the limiting factor on being an asshole.
Now you are tossing out the buzz words and there is literally no faster way for me to not care about what you have to say when those start being trotted out. Actually there are better and newer people. People find web personalities all the time and while I will admit that in this case "better" is very subjective there is such a thing. Like say someone who gets offended at any of those comments decides he doesn't want to follow Bob anymore however another person who has never heard of him stumbles across the article and goes "You know what those aren't exactly bad or wrong accusations. I like this guy's stuff." Now he has a new follower that is "better" in that its someone open to thinking about things beyond mere words on a page.

You are assuming though that that is all Bob and possibly Jim have when you make that statement and that is blatantly false. People just like to amplify the times they are "assholes" and usually when they are "assholes" to the consumers its because the consumers that they are talking about are indeed assholes. Everyone with a brain knows who they are talking about when they talk down to people in GG or whatever the movement of the week is. If you partake in that sort of harassment or general nastiness they are talking about you. If you don't they aren't talking about you.
And that's all well and good if you are talking about simple followers. YouTube subscribers and such. But Patreon is different. Patreon is not simply following someone who seems interesting and checking out his next posting. Patreon is actively ponying up payment for the content. And what people will pay for on the Internet is very different than what they will follow.. People only pay for stuff they find to be positive.
 

Story

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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
Its funny that people these days seem to sum up gaming websites by video content first and actual news/journalism text content as more of an afterthought (unless its a column). Even the webcomics get more attention than the news/editorials.
That's a very true observation and one that I'm personally guilty of. However, to be fair, MovieBob and Jim did do a fair amount of writing for the site. At least MovieBob did do news journalism and Jim was review editor.

On the other hand sites like IGN have laidoff a few people because they wanted to focus more on video content. I personally think we are starting to see this more and more on websites in general not just game focused websites.
 

Kameburger

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Apr 7, 2012
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magicpokey said:
I'll say this one time. I respect the hell out of moviebob, I've been a fan since the early days of Game Overthinker and loved everything he did on this site. Here's the problem. The people who do the awful things are always the loudest voices in the room. It isn't glamorous to be the guy calling for moderation and civil discourse, because the crazy people are louder and usually more entertaining. But those of us on the side of progressive social issues need our voices heard as well. And it takes a lot of guts to be as vocal a mouthpiece as Bob was and still is.

I agree with 99% of everything Bob said here and on twitter. I think Swatting, Doxxing, and all the other -ing's that are used to harass and bully people you don't agree with are morally reprehensible and have no place in a civil society. When you take part in or encourage the type of behavior that the worst of #gamergate was associated with, you deserve to be called out. When you use an anonymous position of power to lash out at people like that just because you disagree with them (or, more often you are shocked that they had the nerve to be a woman in the games industry) then you deserve to be called subhuman.

Call me a Social Justice Warrior. Call me whatever you want, wrong is wrong and if the only way to defend this culture that we are a part of is to get a little dirty, then i'd rather get dirty on the side of RIGHT than Politically Correct any day.

I stand with Bob. I will follow him anywhere, because I respect the hell out of him, and I want him to continue fighting the good fight. Today is a sad day for The Escapist. And I, for one, won't be back any time soon.

-Brian "Magicpokey" Shoop
See here is the thing. I don't disagree with your right to have an opinion, and hell, I agree with you in a lot of cases, but here is the thing that Bob did that was an active disservice to those of you "on the side of progressive social issues" as you put it: Bob didn't condemned the actions Gamergate, he condemned the actions being employed against people he agreed with. He said as much, stating that "there are no such things as bad actions only bad targets" was a paraphrased tweet from him, where he actively supported the doxxing intimidation and harassment of others simply by association.

So in that vain are you supporting "the type of behavior that the worst of #gamergate was associated with?" And it's an honest question. Similarly as a social progressive, are you against torture? or are you for it when it servers your cause? Is that hyperbolic? Absolutely! But that's what Bob was. So you can be RIGHT all day and drop political correctness but there is a difference. Social Progressive issues are in their nature "politically correct." as it was them who invented this term. You're not being "brave" or "politically incorrect" by saying "no the other side can't possibly have any point what so ever their criminals and you're either against them or you're one of them."

And for the record I don't support firing Bob or anyone for their beliefs, etc. Bob literally created an atmosphere where people didn't even want to click on his articles as proved by the almost 500 posts in this thread saying almost exactly that.

So in conclusion, if being RIGHT means supporting the harassment of ANYONE I'm afraid I can't side with you here.
 

Darks63

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Gizmo1990 said:
Also reading the faq I noticed that when he askes people to keep coming to The Escapist to support the people who are still here he lists everyone but Yahtzee. Think I am reading too much into that or does he have a problem with him?
I said this exact same thing in an earlier post: every time he talks about "the excellent content-producers of The Escapist" he mentions everybody bar Yahtzee. I get the impression that Bob doesn't care much for him, even if his schtick is basically to copy Yahtzee's non-stop cadence with a Boston accent. It occurs to me it's because of Yahtzee's unusual silence regarding... well, everything Bob blabbers about on Twitter. Yahtzee keeps quiet and does his thing while just about everybody else - Bob chief among them - wastes time lambasting one another on social media. Maybe Bob considers Yahtzee's neutrality harmful to his cause, seeing as how Yahtzee holds the largest fanbase of them all yet doesn't rally them in any particular direction.

Were I in Bob's shoes I would envy Yahtzee. He gets all the fame and none of the hatred (at least his detractors seem to be more indifferent towards him rather than outright hateful, unlike Bob's). Also Yahtzee has kept his show relatively "pure" if you will. The guy is about videogames. Period. He doesn't muck about with politics or social media issues, he doesn't champion internet celebs or condemn public figures. Most importantly, he's not that invested in convincing you about anything. Whereas Bob wants to talk about everything to everybody all the time. He wants to sell you his favorite shows, and his favorite movies, and his favorite comics, and his favorite games, and his favorite people, and fuck anybody who doesn't agree with him.
Just throwing this theory out there, but maybe he feel Yahtzee doesn't need a plug since he is the face of the escapist. Not saying your wrong since Bob can be extremely petty as shown by his heel turn against Nolan for a perceive Marvel snub just giving an alternate explanation.
 

KazeAizen

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faefrost said:
And that's all well and good if you are talking about simple followers. YouTube subscribers and such. But Patreon is different. Patreon is not simply following someone who seems interesting and checking out his next posting. Patreon is actively ponying up payment for the content. And what people will pay for on the Internet is very different than what they will follow.. People only pay for stuff they find to be positive.
And I think its become clear he has quite a big audience with enough people willing to pay for the content.
 

Archon

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Caffiene said:
Archon said:
We're getting lots of great pitches, some from old veterans
Would this be an opportune time to mention that 5 years later (...wow) I still have a number of your Check For Traps articles bookmarked? ;)
Just saying.
Thanks so much! It's great that you found it useful. I have a dream of compiling them into a book at some point. It's some of the work I'm most proud of.