Moving the New 360 Can Damage Disks
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
I don't know why you people are complaining. This is a "duh" to me. It's simple: if you want to move your XBox, turn it off first. Not that hard. This is not an "issue"
This is such a durrrrr moment. Everyone knows the original 360 would maim discs if the console was flipped, so why would the Slim be any different?
Strangely enough, my Wii has been knocked over tons of times by my two cats, WHILE playing games, but the disc was perfectly fine, and my game kept playing as normal. On multiple occasions, with different games. I guess I'm lucky?
Strangely enough, my Wii has been knocked over tons of times by my two cats, WHILE playing games, but the disc was perfectly fine, and my game kept playing as normal. On multiple occasions, with different games. I guess I'm lucky?
.......and this is why I keep my 360 lying horizontally on the shelf, not vertically. Having said that, sometimes the console can munch discs even when unprovoked. The bastard.
Ironically, right after I posted that, I re-read the article you linked me to and it explicitly mentioned the PSP as using a similar system (with the UMD discs.) I had thought it weird when I initially saw it, but now I understand the potential use of such a system, especially considering the PSP's portable nature.CaptainCrunch said:
Would it really be more expensive to the console manufacturers to engineer such a system into their consoles vs. having to deal with potential litigation/bad press brought against them? Granted they now explicitly include the stickers and warnings telling you not to move the console while it is on, but still...
I have to confess I'm rather attached to the idea partially because the caddies look neat, and I've always preferred the dependability of cartridges over the (relative) fragility of discs. Messing around with the NES's "toaster" cart loader is endlessly amusing to boot
Hmm, my ps2 can be dropped on its ageing head with a game running without this nonsense. I suspect Microsoft didn't work very hard on the slim...
Which of my posts were you crippling? The one about Conservation of Angular Momentum? Or the one in respond to yours? No need to lecture me about inertia...Hopeless Bastard said:
And seriously...ambient temperature is not an issue...35°C (95°F) is high (although not unheared of...usually it gets even warmer here in Germany...at least in summer), but 70°C (or 158°F if you insist), that most if not all consumer class ICs are able to withstand, is a bit higher...if you go industrial class (85°C/183°F) or even military class (125°C/257°F) you really have no problem with heat...but as I said...those are not as cheap as consumer class...and to get your hands on military grade ICs is really expensive, since these are not produced in as high numbers as the others...
Do you really want that the devices you buy are not tested on their heat management? In that case I can cobble together a really cheap XBox especially for you...50$...but I don't guarantee working condition outside of a freezer...
I am not arguing, that it is generally a bad idea to turn your console during playing, but with a little bit of efford, Micro could have eliminated that issue...but as long as the consumer doesn't expect to get value for his money, there is no need for them to refrain from selling inferior hardware...why should Micro want to make $2.49 less profit per console if they don't need to...
I'm not a big fan of x-box, but even I don't consider that poor design. Seriously it isn't a good idea to move any system while it's reading a disc. I mean its just a matter of physics.
You have a plastic spinning around at ridiculous RPMs, the centripetal force is all ready trying to pull the disc apart. Then suddenly you rotate the system 90 degrees which creates force pushing down on the disc while centripetal force is still pulling on the disc. This will basically cause the disc to bend and rub up against something, mostly likely the laser unit, bricking the disc and potentially ruining the laser unit as well.
You have a plastic spinning around at ridiculous RPMs, the centripetal force is all ready trying to pull the disc apart. Then suddenly you rotate the system 90 degrees which creates force pushing down on the disc while centripetal force is still pulling on the disc. This will basically cause the disc to bend and rub up against something, mostly likely the laser unit, bricking the disc and potentially ruining the laser unit as well.
Laptop drives are a bit different. They spin slower for one. They also have a better locking mechanism on the disk. But mostly its the slow spin that allows you to move the drive while a disk is in. Still you start trying to really shake those things around and you could still run into problems.Eruanno said:
The 360 of course can't lower the spin because then it would take forever to load anything off the disk. Seeing how I have never moved my 360 since I plugged it into the TV I would much rather the don't slow the spin.
Here's the thing. Unlike every consumer electronics device ever, the Xbox 360 has a 12x DVD drive. When it's actively using the drive, which is any time you're playing a game, it can be spinning at 8000+ rpm. At speeds that high, anything that pushes against the disc is going to leave marks (if you're lucky) or start gouging out rings.
This isn't in the same league as a CD player, a DVD player, or a PS2 - those are barely moving in comparison. Not even the PS3 comes close - Blu-Ray drives are still comparatively glacial at this point. The only thing that matches to this rotational speed is a drive in a PC running full-tilt, which only happens if you're actively copying data from the disc to your hard drive. If you'd like to compare, try bumping your PC next time you're installing a game and see what happens.
Slot-loading or spindle-mounted drives can reduce this problem, but they introduce other ones. In a slot-loading drive, it's virtually impossible to get a disc out if something happens, or even if the disc is just too thick (from a sticker, for example) - a problem Mac users know all too well. Spindle-mounted drives are very easy to break because the trays contain sensitive electronics, and removing discs from the spindle improperly can cause them to snap in half.
Coincidentally, all of these problems have one solution in common. Don't be stupid. Sadly, that's the one problem that no amount of technology can cure.
This isn't in the same league as a CD player, a DVD player, or a PS2 - those are barely moving in comparison. Not even the PS3 comes close - Blu-Ray drives are still comparatively glacial at this point. The only thing that matches to this rotational speed is a drive in a PC running full-tilt, which only happens if you're actively copying data from the disc to your hard drive. If you'd like to compare, try bumping your PC next time you're installing a game and see what happens.
Slot-loading or spindle-mounted drives can reduce this problem, but they introduce other ones. In a slot-loading drive, it's virtually impossible to get a disc out if something happens, or even if the disc is just too thick (from a sticker, for example) - a problem Mac users know all too well. Spindle-mounted drives are very easy to break because the trays contain sensitive electronics, and removing discs from the spindle improperly can cause them to snap in half.
Coincidentally, all of these problems have one solution in common. Don't be stupid. Sadly, that's the one problem that no amount of technology can cure.
Not his fault? On what planet?Gilbert Munch said:
There are other problems. For one, the caddies themselves have a bunch of moving parts and were pretty easy to damage (drop one on its edge and it's probably toast). Also, the two different ways or doing it have their own problems. If every disc is pre-packaged in a sealed caddy (ala the PSP), then the manufacturing gets very expensive. If you just put the discs into a caddy before you put them into the machine, it's actually not too tough to damage the discs during insertion, if you don't keep the caddy clean, or if you don't put them in straight. It's better for this particular problem, but not a perfect solution.scotth266 said:
Hmmm well, considering I've always operated under the rule of never moving a PC or console while its powered and running something.
Not to mention that's happened to my roommate with his existing 360- seems like the same problem
Not to mention that's happened to my roommate with his existing 360- seems like the same problem
The fact that people even find this a problem slightly makes me lose faith in humanity. I mean really? Is it that hard to see that moving around an expensive device with a fragile item inside when it on, is not going to be a good idea?
Simply don't use expensive things a maracas and shaking them about
Simply don't use expensive things a maracas and shaking them about
all drives work in 2 ways when it comes to turning and holding discs.
A top loader uses a spindle with ball baring locks, a slot loading or tray drive uses a free floating spindle with a restriction plate that puts pressure down on the top of the disc holding it in place.
the 12x dvd in the 360 runs at near 8000rpm, a 2x bluray drive runs at near 2000rpm.
I've seen the destructoid video, When someone ignores a big green don't move sticker, waits for the system to reach max rpm, then sharply upturns it and even wobbles it a little then you are going to damage a disc.
Since we are comparing, A ps3 with only 2000 rpm is likely not going to cause such a problem but if you were to disrupt the gyroscopic balance then even the ps3 could leave scuffs on disc *though blueray is far more scratch resistant* and PC's well let alone that pc's are huge if you were to get a pc with a 12x or even 16x dvd drive and wobble it around and move it around then it would likely do the same.
this reminds me of the gyroscopi station they had at my local children's museum when I was a kid, they'd sit you on a very loose swivel chair, give you the front wheel off a bike with hand holds screwed to the axel, and they would then spin it really fast and it would exert force on you not only being hard for a child to hold it stock straight, it would turn the chair you were in depending on its angle.
As well I am not condoning the problem, but its more 30% microsoft faults 70% users fault for moving the system at its highest possible rpm.
A strong restricter could be in order but who knows what problems that could cause in the system, and 8000 rpm is alot compared to 2000.
Edit: I all ways thought it was a magnetic restriction.
A top loader uses a spindle with ball baring locks, a slot loading or tray drive uses a free floating spindle with a restriction plate that puts pressure down on the top of the disc holding it in place.
the 12x dvd in the 360 runs at near 8000rpm, a 2x bluray drive runs at near 2000rpm.
I've seen the destructoid video, When someone ignores a big green don't move sticker, waits for the system to reach max rpm, then sharply upturns it and even wobbles it a little then you are going to damage a disc.
Since we are comparing, A ps3 with only 2000 rpm is likely not going to cause such a problem but if you were to disrupt the gyroscopic balance then even the ps3 could leave scuffs on disc *though blueray is far more scratch resistant* and PC's well let alone that pc's are huge if you were to get a pc with a 12x or even 16x dvd drive and wobble it around and move it around then it would likely do the same.
this reminds me of the gyroscopi station they had at my local children's museum when I was a kid, they'd sit you on a very loose swivel chair, give you the front wheel off a bike with hand holds screwed to the axel, and they would then spin it really fast and it would exert force on you not only being hard for a child to hold it stock straight, it would turn the chair you were in depending on its angle.
As well I am not condoning the problem, but its more 30% microsoft faults 70% users fault for moving the system at its highest possible rpm.
A strong restricter could be in order but who knows what problems that could cause in the system, and 8000 rpm is alot compared to 2000.
Edit: I all ways thought it was a magnetic restriction.
Actually, they didn't technically "fix" the red ring issue; they just removed the red ring. Ta-da!tghm1801 said:
It's like that one scene from the Simpsons, in the car:
"Dad, the check engine light is on!"
"Uh-oh, the tape must've fallen off."
And then he reapplies a piece of tape to cover up the warning.
Can't say it affects me a whole lot. I'm not in the habit of moving computer equipment while I'm simultaneously using it to begin with.
I'm not sure this is any different from the various "Do not remove the memory card" warnings we've always gotten.
Why the fuck are you juggling your xbox while it's rotating the dvd?
What's more, I've always been told not to fuck around with my PC when the HD is spinning, and I've always assumed it was a good thing to do the same with consoles who use discs.
Why the fuck are you juggling your xbox while it's rotating the dvd?
What's more, I've always been told not to fuck around with my PC when the HD is spinning, and I've always assumed it was a good thing to do the same with consoles who use discs.
Truth, in absolution.Virgil said:
However, if one could somehow combine the caddy system with a slot loader using something like a cd changer magazine (Example [http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500KAE156C/Alpine-KAE-156C.html?tp=3059]), one could eliminate most of the problems of expense vs reliability.
Hell, why don't they just make a console with a magazine-style disc changer built-in? That would totally rule!