Mozilla gives 15k to remove "Slave" from build bot documentation

[iamzim101]

I know im a bit late to the party (the blog post was on the 10th).
But mozilla awarded 15k to a project in order to "... remove the term "slave" from all documentation, APIs and tests, and also to make improvements so Buildbot works better in the Amazon EC2 cloud".
Relevant blog post
Please keep in mind that the terms "Master" and "Slave" is a real technical term and has been in use for decades.

I honestly don't like this change.
Some people will argue that this is literally just a word and can be quickly changed without any hassle. And I could also argue that the word "plate" should be changed to "flat plane" to stop a small minority from being offended.
What really annoys me though is that Mozilla is paying for this to happen. I can sort of get behind individual projects changing to a new naming system through their own volition. That's how languages change over time (I don't have to agree with it but it will happen). But I can't get behind a non profit organisation such as Mozilla paying someone to do this.

It's like unicef paying someone 100k to change "3rd world countries" to "less privileged countries" in all of their marketing. They have better things to do with their money.

 

[Redryhno]

Their money, they can spend it how they like. Don't think it matters if you get behind it or not.

That's sorta like saying campaign contributions don't/shouldn't matter in elections...

 

[Redryhno]

Their money, they can spend it how they like. Don't think it matters if you get behind it or not.

That's sorta like saying campaign contributions don't/shouldn't matter in elections...

Apart from the fact that elections aren't remotely comparable to some software, it'd actually be more like saying that campaign contributions use their money and they can spend it how they like. Don't think it matters if you get behind it or not.

So yeah, your analogy was off twice there.

That's why there was the "sorta" thing there at the start dude.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

I know im a bit late to the party (the blog post was on the 10th).
But mozilla awarded 15k to a project in order to "... remove the term "slave" from all documentation, APIs and tests, and also to make improvements so Buildbot works better in the Amazon EC2 cloud".
Relevant blog post
Please keep in mind that the terms "Master" and "Slave" is a real technical term and has been in use for decades.

I honestly don't like this change.
Some people will argue that this is literally just a word and can be quickly changed without any hassle. And I could also argue that the word "plate" should be changed to "flat plane" to stop a small minority from being offended.
What really annoys me though is that Mozilla is paying for this to happen. I can sort of get behind individual projects changing to a new naming system through their own volition. That's how languages change over time (I don't have to agree with it but it will happen). But I can't get behind a non profit organisation such as Mozilla paying someone to do this.

It's like unicef paying someone 100k to change "3rd world countries" to "less privileged countries" in all of their marketing. They have better things to do with their money.

Actually, I think this is something that they should be using award money for, some small little change that makes it sound better but isn't a big enough deal for someone to pay for it themselves. I think it's cool that they want to use a less loaded word

The weird thing is if you got to buildbot's website, they still use the master/slave terms on the front page:
http://buildbot.net/

 

[seventy two]

Their money, they can spend it how they like. Don't think it matters if you get behind it or not.

Mozilla solicits donations from people so I think it is fair that people have an opinion about something their money is potentially going towards.

Personally I think it is a silly changed, if it was not a problem in the recent past it should not be treated as a problem now.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Please keep in mind that the terms "Master" and "Slave" is a real technical term and has been in use for decades.

To be fair, I've always wondered why they chose those words over other, equally fitting terms. Maybe I'm just adding too much cultural baggage to the two words.

That said...

I honestly don't like this change.

I doubt you would dislike it so much if you weren't adding some clear distaste for (excess) political correctness to this. In terms of responding to hyper-sensitivity, this is a very minor issue. I doubt anyone is severely affected by changing "master/slave" to something less likely to offend someone.

Also, it's not like this is the first time a controversy has been raised. There are at least two other instances (one with Django and another more recently Swift) where the terminology was changed.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

So what are they changing it to? I mean the master/slave divide hasn't been relevant in home computing since SATA took off properly. It's been a while since I had to make changes to jumpers

But seriously, what are they replacing it with?

 

[The Enquirer]

So what are they changing it to? I mean the master/slave divide hasn't been relevant in home computing since SATA took off properly. It's been a while since I had to make changes to jumpers

But seriously, what are they replacing it with?

Maybe they'll do whatever the creators of "Gravity Falls" did to get it on Disney channel. Change it to actually offensive words so when it's changed back it's well received.

In all seriousness, I am curious what they're changing it too. Normally I'd look it up myself but I'm heading to sleep. You can get an internet point from me if you happen to find out before I do when I wake up.

 

[DefunctTheory]

To be fair, I've always wondered why they chose those words over other, equally fitting terms. Maybe I'm just adding too much cultural baggage to the two words.

For the same reason most physical connections use 'female' or 'male' connectors. Someone named it a while ago, it was technically accurate, and while 'slave/master' is offensive to use with people, it wasn't a huge deal back then when it came to things.

And as others pointed out, it's a technical term not limited to programming. Military vehicles use 'slave' cabling system to charge each others batteries, Hydraulic systems used it, databases uses it, PATA drives used it, system clocks, and so on. It's even used in some fiction - Battletech uses it for Command and Control modules, named 'Slave' or 'Master.'

Personally, I'm not to bent out of shape by this either way. The 15K reward was given to remove slave from the documentation and improve performance, so I really doubt they gave 15 thousand dollars for a simple Find/Replace job. And it's not like this is the first time this came up.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/master.asp

So what are they changing it to? I mean the master/slave divide hasn't been relevant in home computing since SATA took off properly. It's been a while since I had to make changes to jumpers

But seriously, what are they replacing it with?

I believe the terms of choice now are Master/Primary and Replica.

EDIT: Also, I've heard 'Leader/Follower,' but if we're going to stay away from things that are offensive, we should probably keep away from names that could remind people of cults.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well it's just bad form, you start mucking around with expected technical names and you confuse the fuck out of everyone trying to work with you stuff, not to mention everything that exists right now.
But then again most of the more industrious companies do this as a strategy so they essentially create more brand names inside their brand, it is a horrid practice.

 

[EyeReaper]

Good. As someone with Polish ancestry, I was getting so sick of the cultural appropriation going on. As a man with Slavic ancestors, I'm pretty sure I get to say that's our word.

Might also want to tell Mozilla that "hard worker" is off-limits too.

 

[munx13]

Their money, they can spend it how they like. Don't think it matters if you get behind it or not.

I see a small problem here.

Spoiler

 

[Thaluikhain]

Their money, they can spend it how they like. Don't think it matters if you get behind it or not.

I see a small problem here.

Spoiler

Only a small problem, once they get their money, they can spend it on whatever they want.

Sure, some people would be annoyed at them because of this, but I don't imagine they'd miss out on much in the way of donations.

 

[Qizx]

Their money, they can spend it how they like. Don't think it matters if you get behind it or not.

I see a small problem here.

Spoiler

Only a small problem, once they get their money, they can spend it on whatever they want.

Sure, some people would be annoyed at them because of this, but I don't imagine they'd miss out on much in the way of donations.

Cauuuuuuuuse if you gave Mozilla your money you probably thought it was going towards running Mozilla Firefox... Not towards something silly like renaming something just cause it might offend someone. Here's a history lesson for anyone offended by the mere WORD slave: Almost every race, religion, people has been subjected to slavery. Slavery is a bad thing obviously, and America did great a terrible problem by it, some of which linger to today. However the SIMPLE WORD IS NOT racist.

 

[Denamic]

Next, we'll only have grey cables because having different colouring is racist.

 

[Loonyyy]

It's not like changing wording for 3rd world nations at all (In fact, that usage is, AFAIK, mostly colloquial, the term was designed for other things, and there are other terms that say more and describe things more).

Master and Slave are technical terms, and I've used them before, if you've done any amount of programming, chances you have too. And just describing them as such doesn't sound so awkward, but when you're describing the operation, it does get pretty awkward, and there is little reason to keep it. Standards vary from company to company, from language to language, documentation to documentation. I think some people fail to understand just how unimportant this is. Programmers change variable names all the time, even more often poor ones who can't be bothered adhering to some sort of standard. It's an old term, and they die.

Mozilla does run on donations, but those donations do actually pay for things and people. There is surely a far greater amount being spent on many more things that you personally do not use or care for. Picking this one says more about the person who takes issue with it than Mozilla. But of course, feel free to not donate, not that it's particularly likely that most people are. What Mozilla does run on, for the greatest part, is the goodwill of other developers who work with them, and they've made it clear in the past that they have an interest in supporting diversity amongst programmers. Yeah, that does mean making things more welcoming to people of all stripes, because innovation can and does come from anywhere, and the only person who believes otherwise is simply a bigot. If you don't want to pay for it don't, but the peanut gallery is just petty.

 

[MysticSlayer]

The idea that the word is offensive, is being championed by American black supremacists and anti-white racists.

Where are you getting this from? And don't give me any bullshit about it being "common knowledge". It's common knowledge that some people think all these people are racists. They've still yet to show that it is anything more than a fantasy only driven by their own imagination and the occasional person they can cherry pick from the whole bunch to "prove" that they are right.

Well it's just bad form, you start mucking around with expected technical names and you confuse the fuck out of everyone trying to work with you stuff, not to mention everything that exists right now.

I doubt this would create any more of an issue than differences like coding standards, IDEs (including extensions), third-party (including in-house) libraries, or new ways of approaching a problem (or just new problems). All of these are things that programmers must get used to. Having "master/slave" changed to something else is hardly a major issue.

 

[blackrave]

Absurd absurdity is absurd
BUT
At the end of the day

Their money, they can spend it how they like. Don't think it matters if you get behind it or not.

If you donated to them inform them that you don't like them wasting money, demand your donation back and never donate again.
I don't use Firefox, never donated to them, so as far as I care they could make a campfire from those 15k (and they pretty much did)
Too bad that they didn't use it for better causes, though.

 

[munx13]

I see a small problem here.

I can't tell what angle you're going for here. Is it that if you spend your money it's still your money? Or is it that you think Mozilla is entitled to your money?

Whatever the case, both those things are false.

It is implied that they need this money to keep the browser updated and running, and I have to assume most people are donating their money for this purpose. Then they decide to spend thousands on something as meaningless and wasteful as this. Nothing wrong technically, as its now their money, however still dishonest.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I don't really see how this is a big deal. If somebody wants to change some rather tasteless terminology because of the very negative connotations with it, I say let them. After all, this is something that would need to be changed eventually anyway, assuming we ever create artificial intelligence or partially virtualized biological intelligence, so we may as well get it out of the way now.