Multiverse Question

[Agayek]

Not necessarily. If this universe manages to exist, whats to say other universes haven't been created? What makes us so special that we are the only universe to exist?

If nature did it once, it will do it again.

The fact that there's absolutely no evidence to support such theory (and in fact, there's multiple rules of logic that definitively disagree with the assertion).

Is it possible other universes exist? Of course it is.

Is it likely enough for the possibility to matter? Not in the slightest.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

If evidence arises to support the theory, I'm fully willing to change my stance, but until there's some kind of evidence, it makes no sense to believe it to be true.

It's a belief. It's not necessary for it to make sense.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

So this has been making me scratch my head. Y'know how there is supposedly an infinite number of parallel universes with their own realities? Shouldn't that mean that there is a universe in which that version of me somehow travels to this universe at this exact moment in time and appears right next to me? My brain really hurts!

Let's think about infinite for a second now. Infinite wouldn't mean one version of you would show up and appear next to you. Infinite would mean than an infinite subset of the infinite yous would be showing up at every possible moment. Since your existence hasn't broken physics, this means that, for whatever reason, no version of you either A) discovered inter-dimensional travel B) was able to discover inter-dimensional travel AND was too dumb to see the "infinite you" situation coming, or C) you've misunderstood something and we're all very lucky it's imposs-

Oh wait, there are infinite copies of me outside my window. Never mind.

 

[Agayek]

It's a belief. It's not necessary for it to make sense.

That's a problem with the perception of belief. Your beliefs should always make sense, otherwise you're insane, by definition. I refer you to dictionary.com:

insane
adjective
1. not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged.
2. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a person who is mentally deranged: insane actions; an insane asylum.
3. utterly senseless: an insane plan.

 

[bakan]

the way i see it there are three reasons for that. 1 travel between universes is impossible. 2 there is only a few universes (say 1000) and none have them have found out how yet. And 3 the whole multiverse thing is wrong.

I think its the 3rd

I think your right, the whole multiverse thing could just be bullcrap

Well, there are indications in the space structure that there could be more than one universe.
On the one hand we can observe different velocity of propagation in different directions.
And on the other side there are areas in the space structure where some people think it could be the result of collisions with other universes.

And as for your question if you really find a parallel universe with yourself they should have roughly the same stage of development and travel between universes would be impossible.

For example one theory states that every black hole contains another universe.
So, in this example we would have to travel through black holes to reach another universe which we can't.

But there are a pletora of theories and the black hole idea isn't what I would go for, as there could be universes without black holes and this would give a lot of other problems.

 

[drosalion]

So this has been making me scratch my head. Y'know how there is supposedly an infinite number of parallel universes with their own realities? Shouldn't that mean that there is a universe in which that version of me somehow travels to this universe at this exact moment in time and appears right next to me? My brain really hurts!

Yeah I often wondered that too. If there are an infinite number of universes with every possible outcome, then your scenario should be happening constantly. That seems to be one of the loopholes in the theory...

Well its probable that travelling to another universe simply isnt a phsyically possible outcome. So no matter what choices are made by all the individuals in the universe none of them lead to something thats physically impossible.

Or maybe there is people constantly travelling between universes but maybe its not physically possible to interact with it. So perhaps there is a ghost-you right next to you who can see you but is unnable to interact with you and you'd never be aware of his presence.

Or maybe we just happen to exist in a universe in which no-one is ever visited by anyone from another universe. Thisis definitely possible according to multiverse theory as every possible outcome occurs, so there'll definitely be an outcome where no-one is visited and we just happen to be in it.

Or perhaps the multi-verse theory is just incorrect, we'll likely never know.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

It's a belief. It's not necessary for it to make sense.

That's a problem with the perception of belief. Your beliefs should always make sense, otherwise you're insane, by definition. I refer you to dictionary.com:

insane
adjective
1. not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged.
2. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a person who is mentally deranged: insane actions; an insane asylum.
3. utterly senseless: an insane plan.

Well in that case I guess I am insane and liking it. At least I'm open to possibilities and I can think up crazy dreams, instead of being matter-of-fact and sensible about everything.

And since you like those:

be·lief
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

Now point to me where it says (or even implies) it needs to make sense please.

 

[randomsix]

For the love of god read this post.

It is uncontroversial to most cosmologists that there is both an infinite amount of matter and space in what is commonly considered to be our "universe." Effectively, our universe is our hubble volume, that is, the region from which light has had time to reach us. This, in addition to quantum fluctuations result in all possible matter configurations occurring with some probability, so any scenario which can occur does occur somewhere in some hubble volume or another.

The thing you have to remember is that while there are regions in which another you does pop into existence, there are other regions in which this does not occur. As the you popping into existence is an improbable event, it does not occur in many more otherwise identical regions than those in which it does occur.

Also, if String Theories are right, then the multiverse concept gets even stranger than this

Occam's Razor says it's almost certainly bullshit.

Not necessarily. Often a description of a set (in our case, the mathematical solution to the "universe equation") is much less complicated than any one member of the set. For example, consider that I could easily make a number of extreme length with the simple instruction 2^x.

 

[vrbtny]

In my mind there are a set number of multiverses.

42.

Because it is the answer to everything. 'cept the square root of minus 1. 'cos that sucker is the exception that proves the point.

 

[Agayek]

Well in that case I guess I am insane and liking it. At least I'm open to possibilities and I can think up crazy dreams, instead of being matter-of-fact and sensible about everything.

Now point to me where it says (or even implies) it needs to make sense please.

I am 100% open to possibilities, as I said, I am fully willing to believe it's possible other universes exist. What I have an issue with is that you're not approaching the question with anything even vaguely approximating scientific rigor. "This makes me feel good so I'm going to believe it" is not an acceptable measure for believing something. It cheapens your own mental faculties, not to mention the insult to those who actually question such things.

I have no issue with anyone who believes whatever they want. What I have an issue with is people who believe something but are unwilling or unable to support their belief. I'd accept logic in lieu of evidence, but "I believe it because I believe it" is not a valid argument. The idea that beliefs are exempt from questioning is extremely dangerous. As reasoning beings, it is our responsibility and obligation to question everything, constantly. It's the only way to grow.

 

[Blobpie]

The idea is that when you make a choice, another "You" makes a different choice.

Like if you eat out: in this universe you choose a burger, but in another you choose a salad.

So yes, in THEORY another you as traveled to another universe and met another you.

But never THIS you because we are the Alpha-verse. We have to be. We came up with the theory and haven't been able to prove it. There's already another universe where I didn't reply to this thread. But that one branched off of this one, because this is clearly the Prime universe.
Right?

Not necessarily, more likely we are a universe.

The idea is that, new universes are sprouted off ALL of the many different universe's choices. There could be some that are essentially the same as ours or others that are radically different.

(I'd like to point out that i don't actually believe in this theory, I'm just stating the theory)

 

[RicoGrey]

If there were really multiuniverses, only one would probably even contain humans at all, let alone slightly different copies of yourself.

 

[randomsix]

A present for Agayek and others demanding evidence:

A relatively accessible source:
http://www.nature.com/scientificamerican/journal/v288/n5/pdf/scientificamerican0503-40.pdf

More technical:
http://lanl.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0905/0905.2182v2.pdf

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Quoted stuff goes here

See, I understand, and I never said I blindly believed in the existence of multiverses. It's more of a "that'd be neat". I believe in it because I want it to be something more than what we're enduring right now.

And you say we need to question everything, yet you seem rather happy to not question this. See, if you have proof of something it's not being open to it's possibility, it's being proven that something exists. Being open means believing something is possible when there's no proof. So don't bring scientific rigour in this discussion, it's impossible to have any.

You want some reasons?
- Something that happened once can happen again.
- The universe is too big to ever know all of what's in it.

 

[Dense_Electric]

The whole multiverse thing is almost certainly bullshit. The whole concept is incredibly silly, with no basis in fact, theory or even logic.

That part of your statement is blatantly untrue. I'm not going to sit here and list off every possible shred of evidence I can come up with (I doubt I'm even familiar with half of them), but I suggest you research some of the evidence. Right now, it's looking like it's actually a rather probable theory.

 

[Bramman111]

There is a near infinite number of parallel universes, and each one is slightly different from the on preceding it. Every minor, major, and in-between event causes a split that branches a single universe into two, three, four, etc. universes depending on how many outcomes the event could have.

I love theoretical stuff like this.

 

[chaosyoshimage]

Who cares? I'll let the villain from my second favorite multiverse based animated movie explain.

"Nothing matters." -Owlman, Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths

 

[LJJ1991]

Watch Noein, it'll explain everything.

 

[Agayek]

See, I understand, and I never said I blindly believed in the existence of multiverses. It's more of a "that'd be neat". I believe in it because I want it to be something more than what we're enduring right now.

And you say we need to question everything, yet you seem rather happy to not question this. See, if you have proof of something it's not being open to it's possibility, it's being proven that something exists. Being open means believing something is possible when there's no proof. So don't bring scientific rigour in this discussion, it's impossible to have any.

You want some reasons?
- Something that happened once can happen again.
- The universe is too big to ever know all of what's in it.

I actually question my beliefs regularly. As it stands, there's no evidence either way with regards to multiple universes. Thus, the most reasonable conclusion is that they don't exist. Certainly, I could be wrong, and if any evidence were to arrive, I would make the necessary changes to my stance.

Being open to the possibility does not mean believing in something for the sake of believing in it. It means being aware that it's possible. I am well aware that modern science doesn't know everything, and as such literally anything is possible.

Possibility does not imply plausibility though. While the existence multiple distinct universes is very possible, it's not very plausible. There has never been any indication of its existence, throughout the entirety of human history. It's a neat idea, but there's absolutely nothing to support it.

It's roughly analogous to believing in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or that that grilled cheese sandwich with the Virgin Mary's face on it is holy. You believe it because you want it to be true, not because there's any logical basis for it, and in doing so you do yourself a grave disservice.

By all means, keep the nifty ideas in mind, but know the difference between fact and fiction, and be able to tell the two apart.

As for your reasons: While the latter is completely irrelevant, the former is actually fairly reasonable. There's a minor logical fallacy in that assuming because something happened once means it will happen again, but that's merely a matter of probabilities. That gets more into semantics than anything else though, so I'll leave it there.

You assume Occam's razor has always been correct. It is not, even in science. Its a rule of thumb, not some ironclad law. Hell, DNA was called bullshit by Occam's razor in favor of proteins. Atomic theory was at first called bullshit by Occams razor because of "tny invisible particles." Occamms razor called a lot of things complete bullshit.

I'm not assuming anything. I know that Occam's Razor is not always correct. I've seen it myself in action. All I'm saying is that Occam's Razor is a good rule of thumb, and by it, multiple universes most likely do not exist.

I fully acknowledge the possibility that it could be wrong, and if any evidence were to arise, I would evaluate it and change my stance accordingly. Until then, I'm going with the most reasonable conclusion.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Ok first of the concept is purely theoretical, secondly you're assuming it's even possible to even travel between universes, and thirdly even if it was according to the theory there are literally an infinite number of alternate universes, the odds of alternate you crossing over to this one are infinitesimal.