Musical Demo Submission thread

[ProfessorLayton]

Alright well I've been contemplating whether or not to post it but screw it I want to hear what you have to say.

http://www.myspace.com/rivalshardcore is our page. We only have one song down and it sounds like a demo mainly because it is. We started this band last month and our bass guitarist has only shown up for 2 practices and one of them was to record the only song on the page. I think that it could be much better, due to not only Audacity screwing up the timing but I messed up with the guitars a lot... So yeah personally I think it could be way better than it is but we're just a bunch of kids messing around. I want to hear your professional opinion on this.

 

[BonsaiK]

Spoiler: big post

http://www.myspace.com/feetofthecolossus

Some very old tracks there. I'm not really happy with any them myself, but I thought I'd waste your time anyway!

If you've only got time for one song, I'd say Feet of The Colossus. It's probably the one I dislike the least.

I'm in no illusion that the band, nor the genre, is going to make it on a commercial label, so I won't mind if you stomp them to the ground. That being said, it's of course not perfection incarnate, so I'm not set on blowing your comments off with a "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me" routine.

It's funny, I work with stoner rock bands quite a bit. This sort of style is completely viable on a small scale, because like a lot of metal styles it has a fairly consistent cult following that considers it a moral duty to fork out money for product and go to see shows. The better bands do okay for themselves, none of them make millions but they can eat.

I was in the studio with a band not dissimilar to this yesterday. I was working with an engineer who has fantastic equipment and years of experience... in pop music. Because of this he pulled a great pop mix, but it was all wrong for the style. The main mistake pop guys make with a band like this is that the vocals are always too prominent. Now that he's pulled good basic sounds I'm going to go back in the studio with him and tell him to rip at least 6db out of the vocals and bring the guitars up. Fucking pop guys wasting my studio time... (sigh)... anyway your mix is better than the one he did yesterday but those vocals still do need to come down a touch. Nobody who listens to this music gives two shits about vocals really as long as they are there, somewhere - it's all about the riffs.

Stoner rock is a deliberately regressive style. So if you want to stay in it, try and stop influences from modern metal etc creeping in. I'm so happy your vocalist isn't a "screamer", I hate that shit in this genre, but also be aware that he should not sing over the complex riffs like a modern metal singer would - instead, sing over the simple ones. Take the slow song "Names On The Stone"... that first part which is just three chords and a bunch of sustain? THAT is where vocals go - in the places where nothing interesting is happening with the guitar. Instead the vocals at the moment are tracking unison with the riff after that... which is not needed, because unison harmony doesn't add anything extra anyway. Also if he's not singing there, you can rewrite that riff and make it more interesting because you'll no longer have to accommodate for a singer's quirks. Riffs are so important, yours are reasonable but need something extra to be really good. Listen to your favourite riffs from bands who sound like you and try to work out what they're doing that you're not. You'll probably find that the answer is more syncopation. If you hear one of your own riffs in your head and you couldn't visualise Ozzy singing over it on a Sabbath record, you need to rewrite it. (And look to Sabbath's "War Pigs" for a brilliant guide on where to insert vocals in a riff-heavy song, notice how all the singing happens in the places where the guitar does very little.) And don't worry so much about adhering to traditional song structures, particularly in the slow material. There's no need to go back to the opening riff at the end of the song after the audience has already heard four minutes of it, if you're writing a progressive arrangement, going back to the start is kind of a meh way to end it when you have the opportunity do something unexpected instead. For faster songs strict structural conventions are fine though. So yeah... overall I'd say you guys are on the right track, instrumental performances are great across the board, vocalist is fine (he doesn't have to brilliant for this style, most of the best bands have very poor singers) but your weakness is in riff-writing and arrangement. Work on that.

Couldn't agree with you more, to be honest.
I find it funny that you managed to mention the two things where I didn't get my way, namely vocals being too loud (although still not pop loud), and the vocals being in the wrong place in Names on The Stone. When I wrote that riff, it was blatantly obvious to me that they'd go to the sustain bit, but our singer disagreed, and I let him have it his way.

Song structure is terrible, and it remains terrible to this day. Riffs, most of which I write, have gotten better, atleast in my opinion. The only riffs I somewhat like, are the faster ones in Names on the Stone.

I had a few doubts about your opinion on the singing and drumming, but you didn't seem to mind too much, so it's all good! I'm happy with my technical performance on the guitars, but also relieved that you didn't give it any flak!

All in all, thanks for taking the time to checking it out, I really appreciate your opinion. Will you murder me with an axe, if I ever bother you with another demo we might be recording sometime before summer?

Your singer disagreed because he is either lazy, too scared to sing without backing, has no idea about song arrangement, or a combination of these three. By singing over your riff and copying the riff melody it means he doesn't have to write a vocal melody of his own or stand out all that much. It's a cop-out. Whatever the reason, he's arranging the songs based on his own personal vested interest, not what's good for the song itself. That's a habit you want to get him out of, or find another singer.

You can post me more stuff when you're ready, that's fine.

 

[Raven's Nest]

This is a great thread your running here Bonsaik! I'll be sure to pop back tommorrow and leave some tracks for ya... Bookmarked...

 

[BonsaiK]

Alright well I've been contemplating whether or not to post it but screw it I want to hear what you have to say.

http://www.myspace.com/rivalshardcore is our page. We only have one song down and it sounds like a demo mainly because it is. We started this band last month and our bass guitarist has only shown up for 2 practices and one of them was to record the only song on the page. I think that it could be much better, due to not only Audacity screwing up the timing but I messed up with the guitars a lot... So yeah personally I think it could be way better than it is but we're just a bunch of kids messing around. I want to hear your professional opinion on this.

Combining screamo and death metal may seem logical but in fact most death metal guys despise screamo/hardcore with a passion, so it's a fairly new thing. Stylistically it's worth pursuing although be aware that screamo, like death metal, will eventually be superceded. If you're going to work in this style get moving fast, bands like Brokencyde spell the start of screamo's appropriation into pop music and the beginning of the end as far as screamed vocals as a viable option for heavy bands is concerned.

The weakness with both styles is obviously a lack of melody in the vocals - so you need really melodic content somewhere (i.e the guitars) to compensate and make this song interesting. Right now you don't really have that. Maybe overdub some lead guitar lines - not solos, just melodic harmony parts or something, anything so it's not just riffs, beats and "rrarararrgggh". This would have been okay in 1998 when screamo was new to most ears but not now.

As for production issues, obviously it's a home recording and that's cool, but Audacity is an amazing program and if you're willing to put in some serious time getting good sounds and tweaking everything your result can sound as good as anything from a multitrack ProTools-equipped studio. However, as you've probably discovered, playback and recording de-sync just a little with Audacity, more on fixing that below.

Timing must be 100% on the button for this sort of music. Even accounting for Audacity de-sync, the drums are a bit sloppy. If need be, simplify the drum parts - better to do it simple and perfect than complex and sloppy. Whatever it takes to get them in time. Those bits where the bass lags behind, that's not acceptable even for a demo. Two practices - I'd believe it. Either re-record that track, or just cut and paste the silence around the bassnotes to "manually quantise" it and get that bass to land where it should. Also, that bass sounds like it's peaking out the inputs - don't allow that to happen. Use Audacity's envelope tool to bring stray peaks below digital zero if you must, but better to just not record at peak levels anyway. That bass is just too damn loud, it needs to be not just quieter, but compressed. It's easy enough to boost up a low signal as long as it's not so low that white noise intrudes, but taming a too-hot signal won't get rid of the digital distortion if there's a sustained area where it goes into square-wave mode. Guitars sound fine though, technically speaking. A bit of sloppiness with the guitars is acceptable, you're not a rhythm instrument.

(non-technical readers may wish to skip over this next few paragraphs)

I'd re-record the bass completely, personally. You don't even need an amp, just DI it straight into the desk and make sure you don't go over digital zero, try and record with peaks between -6 and -3 dB, then compress the hell out of it at -12 dB with at least a 10:1 ratio and 0.1 second clampdown time using Audacity's compression utility (found in the Effect drop-down menu), then squash any stray peaks with the envelope tool. Easy.

As for Audacity remember that 1.2.6 is the most stable version of Audacity, don't use the beta 1.3.x ones they are wonky as shit as the website rightly warns. If you've been recording with the new version you'll have to stick with it just for this song as new files won't convert to the old format but record all future songs with 1.2.6, you'll thank me later when you don't lose the perfect take due to a bug.

Desync on Audacity happens for two reasons:

1. The program has changed the sample rate from 44.1kHz to 48kHz without telling you (check the box in the bottom left corner). You'll know if it's wrong, things will desync wildly, up to a second worth of desync will gradually appear over the course of a few minutes. If this happens just change the sample rate and record the track again.

2. Because of the delay between recording and playback isn't sufficiently corrected, the program misaligns new tracks after recording. It will do this every time, I guess the people who wrote it were on drugs. Mind you it's free so you get what you pay for. Get into this habit to fix the problem: after you record a new track, always press ctrl+2 (to go to the default zoom level) and then ctrl+1 once (to go in one level of zoom) and highlight the smallest possible piece of silence that the program will let you grab at the start of the track with the selection tool and delete it.

Another thing to watch for: there's some feedback that creeps into the recording at about 400Hz and then later at 440Hz at around the 1:35-1:50 mark. Sounds like it's from a microphone, but might want to edit that out, whatever it is.

Anyway good luck with it. Get that drummer and bass player in time is your first step, then try and spice up your songs somehow so it's more than what it is currently. Then record more music and try and get gigs with it.

 

[Jory]

http://www.myspace.com/shoresight

Would like to know what you think. This is just me at the moment, one man bedroom recordings. I've been thinking of trying to find people to take this live with though.

Thanks

 

[BonsaiK]

http://www.myspace.com/shoresight

Would like to know what you think. This is just me at the moment, one man bedroom recordings. I've been thinking of trying to find people to take this live with though.

Thanks

I agree that you should refine these tracks and then try and cobble together an ensemble of some sort to play them.

What to fix? Overall I'd say the heavier your music gets, the worse it gets. Ambient sounds are fantastic but when it gets heavy you tend to revert to cliched chuggy nu-metal riffs, cheesy solos etc. You want to involve people emotionally and you can't do that by borrowing from... um, that stuff. Your drumming in particular needs to be less fancy. All the music needs to in fact be more organic and lusher but also simpler and less pristine. It's all a bit too 'nice' at the moment, not one note out of place. I guess it's because you did it all by yourself it sounds that way - this may rectify itself a bit automatically when you get live musicians involved, but damn you will want to keep a tight reign on them. Don't play them these tracks whatever you do or they'll use it as a license to wank off. Basically, veer more toward post-rock and less toward prog-rock and you'll do well and you'll be much more likely to get label interest. At the moment you're sitting somewhere in the middle and that's a bad place to be because labels won't know what to do with you.

 

[Jory]

Thanks alot

I'll take it on board.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

Snip snip snip

Thanks for the feedback and I actually agree with you on most everything except for the style. I kind of like the style and our next song is a tad bit more melodic than this one and we'll gradually make our way into more melodic stuff. Also, it wasn't me who did the editing, so I'll have to tell him. Every time I hear the bass off beat I get frustrated... but really we're working hard on it right now. We'll definitely re-record that in better quality and there will be no syncing problems whatsoever when that comes around because now when we practice the song the timing is near perfect.

Thanks again for the feedback and trust me, we're working on it.

 

[BonsaiK]

Snip snip snip

Thanks for the feedback and I actually agree with you on most everything except for the style. I kind of like the style and our next song is a tad bit more melodic than this one and we'll gradually make our way into more melodic stuff. Also, it wasn't me who did the editing, so I'll have to tell him. Every time I hear the bass off beat I get frustrated... but really we're working hard on it right now. We'll definitely re-record that in better quality and there will be no syncing problems whatsoever when that comes around because now when we practice the song the timing is near perfect.

Thanks again for the feedback and trust me, we're working on it.

I'll discuss style a bit just to clarify:

The reason why death metal guys hate screamo is because death metal never really broke through to the mainstream - screamo is actually what superceded death metal for a lot of people, it's like death metal's younger, more popular cousin. Death metal fans are frankly jealous and therefore don't want to hear screamo mixed with their death metal because death metal fans always wanted their music to be taken seriously and it never really happened. Fans of the screamo style however think death metal is fine and don't have a problem with it - after all, it's where they're borrowing their vocal style and half their riffs from.

Like death metal, screamo will always exist now that it's here, but it can't last as a pop-cultural phenomenon without some change and evolution. Death metal in the vanilla sense got about as popular as it was ever going to get and now it's gone back to being well and truly underground. The bands who were able to make the most of death metal and really bring it to the public eye were the ones that put a twist on it that allowed it to be absorbed by more people - usually more melody, as in the case of Fear Factory. That band got huge not because of their wanky "cyber" image or quantised drums, but because they were willing to sing some choruses. Same thing with screamo - the bands that really hit big aren't the vanilla screamo bands, they're the ones that incorporate some influences of the style but are also willing to fuse it with other, more popular elements (and not death metal, that's a less popular element!). Punk, rock, more standard forms of metal, even dance music and rap... if you want to do this style and really stand out from the pack, you're going to have to mix it up a little or be forgotten along with the thousands of other bands around the world who already sound more or less exactly like yours.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

I'm not gonna post any music, since I'm not in a band...yet. But I do have a few questions, if I may?

1. I am going to start a band one day, and I know one or two who also want to start a band, and the genre we would head for if we were to do something serious would be metal. I realize that metal is the new popular thing (like everything else), and one thing I've noticed is that some bands do more obscure forms of it. The question here is, does trying to break the mold raise the chance of getting interest from record companies?

2. I've heard of somewhat hellish contracts where the record company wants you to pay for every single expense and gives back little in return. Are these kind of harsh contracts normal in the business, or are the "evil corporations" a rare thing? Also, is it better to go independent in any cases?

3. Do you know anything of how popular death metal is (or melodic death metal, more precisely)?

4. This might be out of context, but: Are there any well paid jobs in the studio area?

 

[BonsaiK]

I'm not gonna post any music, since I'm not in a band...yet. But I do have a few questions, if I may?

1. I am going to start a band one day, and I know one or two who also want to start a band, and the genre we would head for if we were to do something serious would be metal. I realize that metal is the new popular thing (like everything else), and one thing I've noticed is that some bands do more obscure forms of it. The question here is, does trying to break the mold raise the chance of getting interest from record companies?

2. I've heard of somewhat hellish contracts where the record company wants you to pay for every single expense and gives back little in return. Are these kind of harsh contracts normal in the business, or are the "evil corporations" a rare thing? Also, is it better to go independent in any cases?

3. Do you know anything of how popular death metal is (or melodic death metal, more precisely)?

4. This might be out of context, but: Are there any well paid jobs in the studio area?

Yeah what the hell, may as well turn this into an "ask me about..." thread, given that those type of threads are some of the most interesting ones on here.

1. Yes, absolutely. Think of all the classic bands in any genre - when they first came out, they were doing something different at the time, or approaching an old thing in a new way. Record companies, contrary to popular opinion, are after things that are original or unique in some way, it doesn't have to be completely different (too different is scary and confusing, progress happens in small steps) but labels get shit sent to them every day and your thing has to stand out in some manner or form so a unique angle helps purely from a marketing perspective. The thing is, uniqueness is only one element out of many that is important. Successful bands are unique and original and have professional conduct and good legal representation and good management and look the part and know how to pitch their music in an appealing way to their target audience, etc etc...

2. Ripoff contracts are completely normal! A contract that favours the band is definitely the exception, not the rule! Not only that, but don't be fooled into thinking that just because an independent label is smaller and understands you music style, that they won't also rip you off - think again! The stories of independent labels and their bands going toe-to-toe in court are many and long. Unless your Dad owns the label, get a music industry lawyer to be present at all contract negotiations and look over any paperwork before anybody puts a pen on it.

3. Right now? I see that you are from Sweden. Lucky you. Europe is where this style is the biggest. There are followings in other places however (the US, Japan and Brazil spring to mind) and it is definitely worth going there to tour but once you get to a certain level you can pretty much just live off touring Europe. There is so much competition though as every kid with a guitar wants to be in your shoes.

4. If you have knowledge of sound I would say that it is marginally easier to get work in a studio than succeed in a band! Best way of all (most reliable) is to work a shitty boring job and build your own top-class studio with the money, then record bands yourself. You must be a "people person" to be a studio engineer. No nihilists need apply. 'Tude will cost you work, which costs you money, which makes your studio less viable.

Overall remember that music is a "glamour" industry and as such is very very hard to get into. Again, so much competition, plus the industry attracts dickheads left and right who see it as a glamourous fun time and don't see that it is really hard work. However, the money is good when/if you get it (I'm broke but I live in the wrong country for this, music industry in Australia is hopeless compared to Europe, so many more opportunities over there). Getting to the economically viable point is the problem, you need to be very persistent but also brutally honest with yourself about when something just isn't going to work. And don't get scammed, if it sounds too good to be true it is etc. Good luck.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

snip

Okay, thanks for the answers. Also, how wanted are studio musicians? All I know is that you need to have real skill to get any good money from it. Right now I've played 2½ years of guitar (and I've surpassed my brother who's played for 7 years), I've played half a year of violin with much progress, and next term I'm going to take up singing (and growling, but that's a different story).

 

[BonsaiK]

snip

Okay, thanks for the answers. Also, how wanted are studio musicians? All I know is that you need to have real skill to get any good money from it. Right now I've played 2½ years of guitar (and I've surpassed my brother who's played for 7 years), I've played half a year of violin with much progress, and next term I'm going to take up singing (and growling, but that's a different story).

As in session musicians? VERY hard field to get into. Must be good at networking, easy to get along with under any circumstance. Must be able to sight-read music, both standard notation and chord charts. You might get tab if you're lucky but don't count on it. If you see Em7b5+13 on a chart you must be able to play that instantly without that split second of "oh shit" because you will often be given parts with no prep time and be expected to just play. Must be able to play any style and that means every style. Most of your work will be music you don't give a flying fuck about (i.e adverts) but the money is decent, don't expect to specialise styles, that's not how this type of work goes. You can specialise in one instrument though, although obviously the more of them you know the better, but given a choice better to be expert at one instrument than mediocre at six, for this field anyway.

 

[jn]

http://www.youtube.com/user/JimmyNore
http://www.myspace.com/jimmynore

Take care,
Jimmy Nore

 

[BonsaiK]

http://www.youtube.com/user/JimmyNore
http://www.myspace.com/jimmynore

Take care,
Jimmy Nore

Wow, someone signed up here just to post this. That's bold. I hope you read the OP.

Onto the music. So you can play really, really well. That's nice. And?

"Shred" peaked in the late 1980s. Then in the early 1990s, it died. Almost overnight. Why? Grunge. People started demonstrating that you didn't really need all those extra notes to make music that was both guitar-heavy and spoke to the heart. People who were up until then listening to shred went "oh" and then started listening to stuff with three chords in it. To this day, this situation hasn't changed - grunge is no longer a going concern in music but it's been replaced with other equally straightforward styles. The era of the "shred guitarist" that birthed Satriani, Vai, Malmsteen, Becker/Friedman, Michael Angelo Batio etc is over. The sad truth is that you will not achieve fame and fortune with what you are doing now, no matter how good you get at it.

You might think "but wait.. what about Dragonforce? They play ridiculously fast...". Okay, well now that's true isn't it. Go and dig out their best album - "Inhuman Rampage". Now, here's a quick pop quiz - what don't you hear on that album? Think about it. If you guessed "instrumentals" then you win the gold star. Vocals everywhere on those albums. Why? because most people find that they relate most strongly to a human voice, even a mediocre singer can be more expressive than the best guitarist. Everyone has a voice but not everyone can play guitar, so people like to hear voices because that's what they can relate to. The only people who really want to hear guitars and only guitars are your family, your girlfriend/partner and other guitarists. Also guitars just aren't that distinctive to the untrained ear - to the average punter, one good guitar player sounds much like another, but anyone can tell the difference between Tom Waits and Pavarotti. Your playing sounds a lot like Vai to me, if I closed my eyes I would struggle to tell the difference, and I'm a trained guitarist who has been playing for over 20 years. Sure, that's a compliment for your obvious skill but it's also a nasty double-edged sword - why would anyone sign you up when Vai already has umpteen records out (some of which haven't even done that well commercially)? You need to be more distinctive than this to get ahead, and the easiest way for you to do this is to incorporate vocals in your music, somehow.

Moral of the story - you have great skills but no songs. You need to get yourself in a band with a vocalist because nobody wants to hear this stuff you're doing now except other shredders. (Exception is in Japan where this kind of thing is still big, but then you're dealing with all sorts of competition that can play just as good as you.) Chances are being such a good musician that you're already in such a band so maybe you should link me to that.

Aside from that, If you want to see how a shredder can get successful in today's music marketplace, look at Orianthi. The girl comes from the same town I do and she wasn't born yesterday. She went to LA and got a gig working with Michael Jackson. When it came to forging a commercially successful solo breakthrough album, did she go and make a shred excursion? Hell no, she knew that was commercial suicide (or her agent did). Her new album has ONE instrumental song on it. The rest of it sounds like this:


She's like a rocking, shredding Taylor Swift - talk about a license to print money. It remains to be seen how long she lasts, but she's got the skills to back up the hype so her odds are better than a lot of people. Certainly better than yours, because she sounds more distinctive than you. Not because she's a better player (hell, she might not be) but because she's making more saleable and distinctive music.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

snip and awesome Orianthi clip

Just read this post (I'm following this thread, as it has some interesting questions), and I wouldn't say that instrumental music is dying per se, just that it's belonging to a smaller audience. The only problem with playing instrumental music is that the scene is already dominated for the most part, so getting into the niche of it where you can make the big money is very hard. I can agree that the likes of Vai and such are for real guitar enthusiasts.

Also, I have to ask: What do you know about how well industrial metal sells and how big a chance new bands in that genre have? With industrial metal I mean bands like Rob Zombie, Ministry and Nine Inch Nails.

Spoiler: Something like this

The reason I ask about this genre is that much of my writing often derails into that kind of music, and it's often what I write best. It's a genre I wholly enjoy.

Also, sorry if I ask way too many questions, I'm just interested in the business, and I want to know as much as possible for the time I try and get a foot in there.

 

[BonsaiK]

snip and awesome Orianthi clip

Just read this post (I'm following this thread, as it has some interesting questions), and I wouldn't say that instrumental music is dying per se, just that it's belonging to a smaller audience. The only problem with playing instrumental music is that the scene is already dominated for the most part, so getting into the niche of it where you can make the big money is very hard. I can agree that the likes of Vai and such are for real guitar enthusiasts.

Also, I have to ask: What do you know about how well industrial metal sells and how big a chance new bands in that genre have? With industrial metal I mean bands like Rob Zombie, Ministry and Nine Inch Nails.

Spoiler: Something like this

The reason I ask about this genre is that much of my writing often derails into that kind of music, and it's often what I write best. It's a genre I wholly enjoy.

Also, sorry if I ask way too many questions, I'm just interested in the business, and I want to know as much as possible for the time I try and get a foot in there.

Regarding shredders, it will never completely go away, it will always be popular with guitarists if no-one else, but because it's a small market, if you want to make a living out of it you need to not just be an amazing player but you also need a completely different and new angle in order to stand out from the thousands of others out there. As more and more of the guitar has already been explored, this is getting harder for new artists to find. The guy who posted just sounds kind of like Vai. Which is great, but why would I buy his stuff when I can buy Vai's?

There are some specific niches of instrumental music where it's possible to make very big money. Guitar shredding isn't one of those genres.

Industrial metal, hmmm. Rob Zombie, NIN, Ministry. What do all these bands/artists have in common? They've all been active for over 20 years. Combining metal with industrial sounds and drum machines was new to most ears in the early 1990s but it's old hat now. Also, back in 1988 the delineation between "that's a sample", "that's a drum machine" and "that's a real instrument" was a lot clearer than it is now. The advancement of technology has muddied the waters so much that it's literally impossible to tell anymore what's "real" and what's not, therefore if you combine heavy guitars, drum machines and samples people are just going to go "big deal, so does Avril Lavigne". It's actually a really normal way to record an album now, no-one is really blown away by it anymore.

Be aware also that many metalheads are 'meh' about industrial music, and almost all industrial fans despise metal influences creeping into industrial and were really glad when that stopped happening at around the late 1990s. If you really like both styles my advice would be to pick one. Metal will always be a lot more saleable than industrial so that's the smarter choice from a marketing angle, but then it depends on what genre of metal you explore as some are more viable than others. Hint: if it was popular 10 years ago, don't bother doing it now, nobody cares. If it was popular over 20 years ago it's probably due for being revived soon. But there's so much competition in this genre because every kid with a guitar wants to be in a metal band, so you're going to have to be really good...

 

[Arkhangelsk]

snip and awesome Orianthi clip

Just read this post (I'm following this thread, as it has some interesting questions), and I wouldn't say that instrumental music is dying per se, just that it's belonging to a smaller audience. The only problem with playing instrumental music is that the scene is already dominated for the most part, so getting into the niche of it where you can make the big money is very hard. I can agree that the likes of Vai and such are for real guitar enthusiasts.

Also, I have to ask: What do you know about how well industrial metal sells and how big a chance new bands in that genre have? With industrial metal I mean bands like Rob Zombie, Ministry and Nine Inch Nails.

Spoiler: Something like this

The reason I ask about this genre is that much of my writing often derails into that kind of music, and it's often what I write best. It's a genre I wholly enjoy.

Also, sorry if I ask way too many questions, I'm just interested in the business, and I want to know as much as possible for the time I try and get a foot in there.

Regarding shredders, it will never completely go away, it will always be popular with guitarists if no-one else, but because it's a small market, if you want to make a living out of it you need to not just be an amazing player but you also need a completely different and new angle in order to stand out from the thousands of others out there. As more and more of the guitar has already been explored, this is getting harder for new artists to find. The guy who posted just sounds kind of like Vai. Which is great, but why would I buy his stuff when I can buy Vai's?

There are some specific niches of instrumental music where it's possible to make very big money. Guitar shredding isn't one of those genres.

Industrial metal, hmmm. Rob Zombie, NIN, Ministry. What do all these bands/artists have in common? They've all been active for over 20 years. Combining metal with industrial sounds and drum machines was new to most ears in the early 1990s but it's old hat now. Also, back in 1988 the delineation between "that's a sample", "that's a drum machine" and "that's a real instrument" was a lot clearer than it is now. The advancement of technology has muddied the waters so much that it's literally impossible to tell anymore what's "real" and what's not, therefore if you combine heavy guitars, drum machines and samples people are just going to go "big deal, so does Avril Lavigne". It's actually a really normal way to record an album now, no-one is really blown away by it anymore.

Be aware also that many metalheads are 'meh' about industrial music, and almost all industrial fans despise metal influences creeping into industrial and were really glad when that stopped happening at around the late 1990s. If you really like both styles my advice would be to pick one. Metal will always be a lot more saleable than industrial so that's the smarter choice from a marketing angle, but then it depends on what genre of metal you explore as some are more viable than others. Hint: if it was popular 10 years ago, don't bother doing it now, nobody cares. If it was popular over 20 years ago it's probably due for being revived soon. But there's so much competition in this genre because every kid with a guitar wants to be in a metal band, so you're going to have to be really good...

Although Zombie and Nine Inch Nails are still doing well in their area. And they're not that alone in their area of expertise.

As far as skill goes, I'd say I'm more technically skilled than the average guitarist who's played for 3 years. My creativity isn't far along, but I'm 15, I doubt that many musicians wrote their masterpieces during that age.

 

[BonsaiK]

snip and awesome Orianthi clip

Just read this post (I'm following this thread, as it has some interesting questions), and I wouldn't say that instrumental music is dying per se, just that it's belonging to a smaller audience. The only problem with playing instrumental music is that the scene is already dominated for the most part, so getting into the niche of it where you can make the big money is very hard. I can agree that the likes of Vai and such are for real guitar enthusiasts.

Also, I have to ask: What do you know about how well industrial metal sells and how big a chance new bands in that genre have? With industrial metal I mean bands like Rob Zombie, Ministry and Nine Inch Nails.

Spoiler: Something like this

The reason I ask about this genre is that much of my writing often derails into that kind of music, and it's often what I write best. It's a genre I wholly enjoy.

Also, sorry if I ask way too many questions, I'm just interested in the business, and I want to know as much as possible for the time I try and get a foot in there.

Regarding shredders, it will never completely go away, it will always be popular with guitarists if no-one else, but because it's a small market, if you want to make a living out of it you need to not just be an amazing player but you also need a completely different and new angle in order to stand out from the thousands of others out there. As more and more of the guitar has already been explored, this is getting harder for new artists to find. The guy who posted just sounds kind of like Vai. Which is great, but why would I buy his stuff when I can buy Vai's?

There are some specific niches of instrumental music where it's possible to make very big money. Guitar shredding isn't one of those genres.

Industrial metal, hmmm. Rob Zombie, NIN, Ministry. What do all these bands/artists have in common? They've all been active for over 20 years. Combining metal with industrial sounds and drum machines was new to most ears in the early 1990s but it's old hat now. Also, back in 1988 the delineation between "that's a sample", "that's a drum machine" and "that's a real instrument" was a lot clearer than it is now. The advancement of technology has muddied the waters so much that it's literally impossible to tell anymore what's "real" and what's not, therefore if you combine heavy guitars, drum machines and samples people are just going to go "big deal, so does Avril Lavigne". It's actually a really normal way to record an album now, no-one is really blown away by it anymore.

Be aware also that many metalheads are 'meh' about industrial music, and almost all industrial fans despise metal influences creeping into industrial and were really glad when that stopped happening at around the late 1990s. If you really like both styles my advice would be to pick one. Metal will always be a lot more saleable than industrial so that's the smarter choice from a marketing angle, but then it depends on what genre of metal you explore as some are more viable than others. Hint: if it was popular 10 years ago, don't bother doing it now, nobody cares. If it was popular over 20 years ago it's probably due for being revived soon. But there's so much competition in this genre because every kid with a guitar wants to be in a metal band, so you're going to have to be really good...

Although Zombie and Nine Inch Nails are still doing well in their area. And they're not that alone in their area of expertise.

As far as skill goes, I'd say I'm more technically skilled than the average guitarist who's played for 3 years. My creativity isn't far along, but I'm 15, I doubt that many musicians wrote their masterpieces during that age.

Technical skill isn't worth a damn in industrial metal where most of the guitars are sampled loops anyway. When I say "you need to be good" I'm not talking about technique. I'm talking about the creative ability to write and the knowledge to produce a song that someone gives a crap about besides you and your mates.

Zombie and NIN are established artists. Once an artist is firmly established, keeping going is dead easy. Just try not to produce too many stinking turds of albums in a row and there you go - music career. You, however are not an established artist. So - how to establish yourself? Well, how did NIN and Zombie establish themselves? By doing a style of music that hardly anyone else was doing at the time. In the early 1990s, that style was industrial metal. Today it most definitely is not because there's a ton of those bands out there, and with very few exceptions they're all some pissweak, badly-produced hybrid of Zombie, NIN or Ministry.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Two original songs by myself, Long Time Gone is a lot older, and I did make a couple of mistakes when I was recording it. Losing It is actually an electric guitar song, but it takes hours for me to do electric recordings of songs.

I have others which I'm in the process of uploading to YouTube, so I'll put them up as well when they're finished.

At this point I'm also wondering if there's any songs I just shouldn't bother with, or if they're all worth developing further.