Musical Demo Submission thread

[BonsaiK]

Read ALL of this before posting!

As some of you who have been paying attention will know, I work in the music industry. I do work for labels and a radio station (not telling which ones, because I dig remaining anonymous on here) and part of my job is to listen to new releases and "demo submissions" and then decide what to do with them. I do this almost every day, and I've been doing it for well over a decade. I get stuff by post, email, courier, social networking sites, you name it.

I'm feeling slightly masochistic and it's been an unusually slow week at work, so post your/your band's musical links in this thread and I will tell you what I think. I'm going to leave my personal musical taste out of it (which isn't important), and I'm only going to focus on if I think your music is marketable, and if it has a chance of becoming successful, with regard to the sort of patterns that I see in the industry at the moment, and possible future trends.

All genres are welcome (with a few extremely unmarketable exceptions that you'll discover if you post one of them).

I expect this thread to be used quite rarely, but I have it bookmarked and will keep an eye on it. You will get a reply to any link posted here within 48 hours, although a positive response may take longer because I might be showing your band to someone first to get a consensus. That's not a likely scenario though, but it is possible (see below).

THE RULES

If it's a YouTube video, spoiler-tagging it would be considerate. You can embed a YouTube video here by typing [ youtube = (all the stuff after the v=) ] but without the spaces or brackets. If that's too hard I don't mind a direct link.

If it's a MySpace link, please try to make sure your page doesn't have 10gb of extraneous bullshit hanging off it that will take my computer three years to load. Any smart band disables html comments on their MySpace page - you don't have to do this but will it help if you want label people to look at your MySpace, we usually have old, crappy computers - one of my bosses is still on dialup!

If it's not YouTube or MySpace, don't even bother to link it because I'm not clicking on it. It could be anything. Anyway, you need to have a presence on either or both of these two sites if you want anyone to take you seriously these days.

Must be YOUR musical link, NOT someone else's. Not "a friend's band", etc. Also, no opinions will be given on already-signed artists.

No PMs about this. If you're an artist you have to get used to doing things in the public eye.

SOMETHING YOU NEED TO KNOW BEFORE YOU POST

To give you a idea of your chances of a glowing, positive outcome here, I probably get 75 submissions per week on average, that's 3900 per year, or about 55,000 since I started working in this industry. So far I have been directly or indirectly responsible in moving forward the careers of, at most, about 50 musicians. That makes your odds of an "oh gosh that sounds wonderful, don't change a thing" response here approximately 0.1%.

One of the unwritten rules of the music industry is that "the emperor always has tons of clothes on". Everyone is worried about their reputation, everyone wants to be perceived as a nice guy (Simon Cowell notwithstanding) and thus, nobody wants to be the person responsible for shattering your rockstar dreams. Instead of telling you that you suck, people will just not return your calls. Right or wrong, it's just how the industry works, and always has. It has the unfortunate side-effect of many incredibly awful artists running around thinking that they are great simply because nobody has ever told them otherwise. That's why when Simon Cowell tells a guy he has absolutely no hope in hell of winning the X Factor, they often flat-out refuse to believe him - the information contradicts all the positive reinforcement the person has received up until that point. After all your family isn't going to tell you that you suck because they love everything you do no matter how bad it is, and neither will your friends because they want to remain your friends and not offend you after all. And the industry sure won't. So who will? Ah...

Because I'm anonymous here, I'm going to break the unwritten rule of the music biz and give you a realistic assessment, and I'm also going to, where possible, go into detail about why I feel the way I do. I won't be rude but I will be extremely direct. If I think it has potential that hasn't been realised, I'll tell you how best to realise that potential. Don't take it personal, it is not (the music industry is nothing if not a cold, unfeeling machine). If I think you have no chance in hell, I will tell you why. I will be polite, but absolutely honest. You may not be psychologically ready for this. Think twice before you use this service.

Oh, and if you have general music industry-related questions, not relating to your group or the purpose of this thread, post here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.216487-Curious-about-the-music-industry-Find-out-stuff?page=1

 

[zen5887]

Awesome.

Simply awesome.

I'm not sure if there is a big market for Prog Metal, but you never know. Cog are pretty big Karnivool

http://www.myspace.com/pandema

I'll let my band leader know about the myspace stuff.

This is my uni band, not that active but we still play together when we can.

Spoiler

 

[Insanum]

Err...Dude: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.151090 - I know its not really what your asking for, But its probably the biggest thread of musicians on here.

 

[pumuckl]

maan i dig this post... have nothing current to post as of yet since the two bands i have anything recorded with will never play together again... buuut got sum stuff later this week i'd love to drop on here if it's still up and relevant to u

 

[BonsaiK]

Err...Dude: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.151090 - I know its not really what your asking for, But its probably the biggest thread of musicians on here.

That thread is different. That thread is for people to show their stuff and have fun. This one is if you want music industry opinion. I'm not going to go through that thread and share my opinion on everything in it, as:

1. Most people in that thread are not looking for industry advice, so my advice will probably seem rude and uncalled for
2. I don't have a spare month
3. I don't want to discourage people who may sensitive to criticism with my hard-nosed industry-skewed outlook

 

[BonsaiK]

maan i dig this post... have nothing current to post as of yet since the two bands i have anything recorded with will never play together again... buuut got sum stuff later this week i'd love to drop on here if it's still up and relevant to u

No problem. I'll keep an eye out.

 

[Insanum]

Err...Dude: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.151090 - I know its not really what your asking for, But its probably the biggest thread of musicians on here.

That thread is different. That thread is for people to show their stuff and have fun. This one is if you want music industry opinion. I'm not going to go through that thread and share my opinion on everything in it, as:

1. Most people in that thread are not looking for industry advice, so my advice will probably seem rude and uncalled for
2. I don't have a spare month
3. I don't want to discourage people who may sensitive to criticism with my hard-nosed industry-skewed outlook

Fair enough, I've got that thread Bookmarked for when i can get decent covers on, But after doing two i realized i cant sing very well without making me cringe, HARD.

So i think im'ma have to start drinking before performing.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Snip

How does a 2 piece rock act, playing an instrumental(I was feeling far too lazy to write lyrics that day)tickle your fancy? I know...it's obviously a recipe for success...

 

[BonsaiK]

I have to go do some stuff now. When I come back tonight I'll listen to everything that's built up here...

 

[BonsaiK]

Awesome.

Simply awesome.

I'm not sure if there is a big market for Prog Metal, but you never know. Cog are pretty big Karnivool

http://www.myspace.com/pandema

I'll let my band leader know about the myspace stuff.

This is my uni band, not that active but we still play together when we can.

Spoiler

Let's look at the prog metal first.

You are Australian. I pity you. Australia has a great lifestyle and climate but the tradeoff is that it is a hopeless place for anyone starting out if they want to make a sustainable living from music, hell, even I make peanuts most of the time, and I'm supposed to be one of those "evil label people". The logistics of touring alone are nightmarish compared to other countries. You have to be VERY lucky. There is interest in prog-metal in Australia, but not enough to sustain any band's career, realistically speaking, just because of the numbers involved. However, where there is a huge market for prog-metal is Europe. Australia has about half a dozen reasonable sized cities over its land mass, and 23 million people. Europe has about 1 billion people and 50 cities over the same size land mass - hell, many major cities are less than three hours drive away from each other! And they love prog-metal (especially Germany)! Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Your band needs to look at heading over there, if you want to make a serious go of this. Start making plans, try and assess how do-able it is, how willing band members are to make the shift etc, if you have any friends or logistical support over there, hit them up for accomodation and support - you don't have to permanently reside there, but going there to tour a few months out of the year may be a realistic option for you and you should pursue it if you can. Think about learning some basic phrases in the most common European languages too. It's worth investigating.

Onto your prog-metal band, Pandema. Sounds okay for a demo to get you gigs, not something I would submit to a label for serious consideration though. Playing is a little iffy for a start. WTF is that second distorted guitar chord in the first song? Ewww... almost sounds like someone's guitar strap fell off. Piano is a bit out of time in the intro to the first song, could use a click-track (or perhaps the out-of-time comes from the keyboardist using a click-track but not being comfortable with it?), or just cheat and get your keyboardist to rubato it a bit more to cover it up. Then there's the two-handed tapping in the second instrumental song, which is frankly a bit off. The arrangements are too slow to do anything interesting, especially that second one. An instrumental song has to be really interesting to compensate for the lack of vocals and hold attention. Also, dull muddy sound in general, but then that's expected for a demo. All of this is fixable. What I'm saying is that you guys have potential but you need outside ears. In other words, when you go in to record something, bring a producer, even if you've already got a studio engineer. Get an experienced one, one who knows music and who will actually have the knowledge to change the arrangements of your songs. Good producers are very hard to get, not to mention expensive, but they're worth it. Don't give up, you guys are onto something with the first track definitely. But you will have to weigh up how seriously you want to do this, as it's going to require a lot of major, major upheavals, and even then its a gamble. You need a plan. Here's mine:

1. Decide if all of you really want to do this and take it as far as you can. Replace any members who do not (chances are they're the ones with families, or family aspirations).
2. Practice like fuck. Tighten up any sloppy playing.
3. Book a good studio. Hire a producer to rearrange your material to make it more immediate and catchy but still keeping the prog element. Get a recording that sounds shit hot, that people would buy. You don't need to go outside Brisbane to do this. Also make sure album art and image looks amazing, nothing less than amazing should be acceptable.
4. Network like crazy, get contacts in Europe via MySpace or however you can.
5. Shop the finished recording to distributors who sell in Europe and Australia. If you can get one that can do both, brilliant, but you probably can't, so either get two deals, or if you must sign an "exclusive" deal make it the European one and just sell it via MySpace in Australia or something.
6. Get over to Germany/France/Italy/Spain/Portugal/etc and be ready to tour when it hits the shelf, if not before.

Do all that and you have a reasonable chance. Or as reasonable chance as anyone else has got, which admittedly isn't much, but it's something.

The Uni band - no, don't pursue that seriously, complete waste of time, if that one song is in any way indicative of the rest of your material. Rock/funk hybrids are a waste of time, period. The people who like funk usually can't stand rock, and vice versa. Either go completely funk or completely rock - don't try to do both. The main handicap apart from that is that the song is poor - that chorus has been written by someone who does not understand how vocal meter works, I'm guessing the female lead singer here. So the result is that she sounds like she's rushing out the chorus and it's obvious from her pitching that she's struggling. Also, that third line in the chorus where the guitar goes back to the same chord as in the first line of the chorus but where the singer is singing different notes over it just sounds off, it's really offputting actually, especially as the seventh line in the chorus doesn't match it. Don't know if someone's trying to be arty or what, but... no, you can't do that stuff. Don't get me wrong, this band doesn't "suck" - it's fine as a pub band or to play in clubs or cafes, everyone plays well and the singer is fine when she's not pushing out awkward phrases too quickly, but I'm looking at it in terms of "serious music industry potential", and... well, no. This is a Sunday afternoon at the pub band, not a serious concern.

 

[BonsaiK]

Snip

How does a 2 piece rock act, playing an instrumental(I was feeling far too lazy to write lyrics that day)tickle your fancy? I know...it's obviously a recipe for success...

Hey the main riff is gold! Combined with the slow drumming it kind of has a White Stripes-ish feel, I like it. However, when your drummer goes double-time over the same riff, you've lost me there. Don't do that. MAYBE go double time about 2/3rds of the way through the track, if you must. Not apart from that - you're wrecking the feel that you've built up. Personally I wouldn't do it at all, keep the beat slow and groovy, and add other elements to make it more interesting. Like vocals. A song like this MUST have vocals, even if they're just samples or whatever. Unless you're Joe Satriani, or you're making some new age "voices of the forest" shit, nobody wants to hear pure instrumentals - you're going to have to plop a human voice in there somewhere, somehow, or it is simply not marketable.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Snip

How does a 2 piece rock act, playing an instrumental(I was feeling far too lazy to write lyrics that day)tickle your fancy? I know...it's obviously a recipe for success...

Hey the main riff is gold! Combined with the slow drumming it kind of has a White Stripes-ish feel, I like it. However, when your drummer goes double-time over the same riff, you've lost me there. Don't do that. MAYBE go double time about 2/3rds of the way through the track, if you must. Not apart from that - you're wrecking the feel that you've built up. Personally I wouldn't do it at all, keep the beat slow and groovy, and add other elements to make it more interesting. Like vocals. A song like this MUST have vocals, even if they're just samples or whatever. Unless you're Joe Satriani, or you're making some new age "voices of the forest" shit, nobody wants to hear pure instrumentals - you're going to have to plop a human voice in there somewhere, somehow, or it is simply not marketable.

That drummer was me...I quite liked the double time thing, building and breaking momentum had a cool effect...to me at least. But I believe you when you say it wouldn't go down too well with others.(I've always thought that any appeal I have would be very niche, anyway)
I only really did this as a recording gear test, and strung together a few riffs I was toying with(because, for some reason, using a song I had worked on as a test...was innappropriate)to see how it would sound. I can do vocals very easily, and have probably...40 songs of similiar and(arguably)better quality at my disposal...if that means anything.

Thank you for the constructive criticism. I must admit, after reading your OP, I thought I was going to be laughed at.

 

[BonsaiK]

Yeah, there's not a single fucking chance I'd ever get a record deal, not least that I have no musical ability, but that the music I do play, is totally unmarketable anyway. Do your worst.

Spoiler: Songs

Spoiler: Leboosh

Spoiler: Cur Snickety Mr Binks

Spoiler: Lovely Duck

Spoiler: Mr Macgillicuddi

Spoiler: The Chicken Rotating Song

For those interested, this is done using a Line 6 digital amp, an Alesis SR-16 drum machine and Logic pro. I play all the instruments.

Seriously though man, even if my music was anywhere near as good to get a record deal (which it isn't, nor will it ever be), I still wouldn't take it. I distrust labels.
So be as brutally honest as you want.

You know, there are actually labels who would release this stuff. However, my advice would be to work only with a label that you trust, anyway. If that means none, don't bother with them. Or, start your own. I started my own label because I didn't trust labels either. Later on I got to work with other labels and... well, yeah, I was right. We're all a bunch of cunts. You probably have the right attitude.

"Lovely Duck" is easily the best song here. The only one with a nice clear, bright sound, and good textures too. Compress your vocals more, and work a bit on your pitching and this is really, really good and would sell to people who like The Residents, Throbbing Gristle, things like that. Not going to make money, mind you. "Snickety" isn't bad either although you play the bass like a guitarist. Didn't much care for the other songs. Not going to go into detail because I know you're not that fussed anyway.

Bottom line - creativity is more important than talent. If you're not talented it doesn't matter, you can compensate by using imagination, a critical ear and technical knowledge. But don't assume labels are all boring and conservative, no way. Corrupt, usually. Arrogant, always. Conservative, only occasionally. Depends who you deal with.

 

[BonsaiK]

Snip

How does a 2 piece rock act, playing an instrumental(I was feeling far too lazy to write lyrics that day)tickle your fancy? I know...it's obviously a recipe for success...

Hey the main riff is gold! Combined with the slow drumming it kind of has a White Stripes-ish feel, I like it. However, when your drummer goes double-time over the same riff, you've lost me there. Don't do that. MAYBE go double time about 2/3rds of the way through the track, if you must. Not apart from that - you're wrecking the feel that you've built up. Personally I wouldn't do it at all, keep the beat slow and groovy, and add other elements to make it more interesting. Like vocals. A song like this MUST have vocals, even if they're just samples or whatever. Unless you're Joe Satriani, or you're making some new age "voices of the forest" shit, nobody wants to hear pure instrumentals - you're going to have to plop a human voice in there somewhere, somehow, or it is simply not marketable.

That drummer was me...I quite liked the double time thing, building and breaking momentum had a cool effect...to me at least. But I believe you when you say it wouldn't go down too well with others.(I've always thought that any appeal I have would be very niche, anyway)
I only really did this as a recording gear test, and strung together a few riffs I was toying with(because, for some reason, using a song I had worked on as a test...was innappropriate)to see how it would sound. I can do vocals very easily, and have probably...40 songs of similiar and(arguably)better quality at my disposal...if that means anything.

Thank you for the constructive criticism. I must admit, after reading your OP, I thought I was going to be laughed at.

I wouldn't laugh at anyone. It's just that people can sometimes have over-inflated ideas of how good they are and can react to criticism badly, so the OP is basically saying "I might be critical" so those people are prepared.

TBH I'm surprised with the quality of everything I've heard so far. Nothing in this thread yet genuinely sucks.

 

[zen5887]

Tasty Snip

Thanks for putting all this effort in, I really appreciate it.

Those two songs are older ones recorded with the old line up and as far as I know the drummer has got a lot better at recording (he studies that kind of thing now) so the quality of it all should improve, (that chord is some bizarre inversion of an F#m7). There's a few producers at my uni, and people who know producers so I might ask around there and see if anything will come up. I worked with Tyrone Noonan last year on the "Strange" track I showed you, that was pretty cool. Regarding the shift to Europe, as good as an idea as that might be it just doesn't seem to be logistically in the cards, plus we're not doing that bad in Brisbane (nothing at all big but we've got gigs) and there are a handful of bands that are similar enough to us that we can gig with without it being weird (we played with a bunch of Death Metal bands a few weeks back, it was kinda awkward..) Will look at Euro contacts and distributors though, who knows.. A tour might not be that far fetched with a bit of luck.

I'll pass this on to the rest of the band and see if we can't tackle some of these issues.

The uni band - The less said about that singer the better (the keyboardist wrote it as a smooth R&B kind of this but Tyrone thought it would be better with some ballz). I'm content sticking to pubs on Sundays with these guys.

Thanks again man, I appreciate it.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I wouldn't laugh at anyone. It's just that people can sometimes have over-inflated ideas of how good they are and can react to criticism badly, so the OP is basically saying "I might be critical" so those people are prepared.

TBH I'm surprised with the quality of everything I've heard so far. Nothing in this thread yet genuinely sucks.

Yeh I've...definitely met people like that. Care to go another round? All the stuff I have is still without vocals, I realise this is probably annoying to you, but I can assure you I have vocals mapped out for all my tunes...just not yet finalised. Anyway, I intend to make a go of being a musician(even if it is small time)and release some records(even if it is independently)and whilst you might not be hearing the finished product(no vocals, me drumming...I can't drum)you can at least tell me if I am working from a sturdy enough foundation, right? I have performed in public(with singing)and it has gone very well each time, I've even(embarassingly)been asked to sign autographs at open mic...which the guy who runs it tells me is very unusual. I guess what I'm trying to say is...I'm not just dillusional about my ability to sing and perform...I can do it.

Anyway. I'll post this one because it is already uploaded. My drumming is poor and the solo is iffy(probably shouldn't have improvised it).
And this one because I actually had a decent drummer at my house whilst I did it, and it hopefully shows that I can do more than just ham fisted, dirty rock.
Thanks for your time, mate.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Are we allowed to post covers, or does it all have to be original music?

 

[BonsaiK]

Tasty Snip

Thanks for putting all this effort in, I really appreciate it.

Those two songs are older ones recorded with the old line up and as far as I know the drummer has got a lot better at recording (he studies that kind of thing now) so the quality of it all should improve, (that chord is some bizarre inversion of an F#m7). There's a few producers at my uni, and people who know producers so I might ask around there and see if anything will come up. I worked with Tyrone Noonan last year on the "Strange" track I showed you, that was pretty cool. Regarding the shift to Europe, as good as an idea as that might be it just doesn't seem to be logistically in the cards, plus we're not doing that bad in Brisbane (nothing at all big but we've got gigs) and there are a handful of bands that are similar enough to us that we can gig with without it being weird (we played with a bunch of Death Metal bands a few weeks back, it was kinda awkward..) Will look at Euro contacts and distributors though, who knows.. A tour might not be that far fetched with a bit of luck.

I'll pass this on to the rest of the band and see if we can't tackle some of these issues.

The uni band - The less said about that singer the better (the keyboardist wrote it as a smooth R&B kind of this but Tyrone thought it would be better with some ballz). I'm content sticking to pubs on Sundays with these guys.

Thanks again man, I appreciate it.

Yea it's easy enough to get gigs, Brisbane has a decent live scene, far better than Sydney and soon it may even overtake Melbourne because of their new liquor licensing laws. The problem comes later, with getting from the "known around town" stage to the "I can quit my day job" stage. That's the real leap, and almost impossible for a band of your type to achieve based on Australian performance alone.

A producer you use has to understand prog-metal. Not just anyone will do. The problem is that if you ask anyone, anyone at all, they will automatically say yes. So research your producer before you pick them. The best option is to find someone who worked on other stuff which is kind of similar to what you're aiming for. If you can rearrange your songs yourself with confidence you might not need a producer, but it certainly helps.

I know quite a few metal bands from my town who spend most of their time doing the Europe circuit. Chances are this applies to some bands in your town too. Find out who they are, become their friends, then ask them how the hell they got over there, and what steps they had to take to make it happen.

Don't be afraid to do the 'weird' gigs. Death metal gigs and other "poor fit" shows are good to do as long as people are there, you'll stand out, for better or worse. Maybe only 10% of punters will like it but in a venue with 100 payers that's 10 new fans. So what if the other 90 hated it - not important. It's more important to play to people. What sort of people, doesn't matter, just make sure you play to enough of them. Play to any crowd at all but never accept a "headline" spot (playing last). In the beginning stages you just want to spam gigs and build a following.