Musicians Demand Answers Over Guantanamo Torture

[Woodsey]

Can't trust in your own music very much if you think its being used as a torture device.

 

[Therumancer]

the entire point of this is shed light on and call attention to what's going in Gitmo. this is an interesting enough angle that certain news organizations will probably pick up on it if it goes through.

As I explained in my previous message (which I expect a lot of flak for, not sure how long I'll respond here having started my opinion), I don't think Gitmo wants for attention. Nobody has forgotten about it. It's simply a reality check to our system of morality and how we wish the world was, compared to reality and how it actually is.

In the end I feel that for all the people who complain about it, the end result is the people in power, including those who cry out against Gitmo, wind up realizing that it's distasteful but nessicary. As a result nobody has closed it down, despite all the claims that "we're going to" which have been going on for years.

It's a public relations walk to make the people feel like they aren't being ignored, while at the same time doing what's nessicary for their own good.

That is how I see it for the most part. If Obama was to actually DO something about this for example, it would earn him some positive PR, but would also mark him as one of the stupidist presidents we've ever had, and we're likely to pay some hefty prices for him doing more than talking Cr@p about policy.

I tend to see it like this (hypothetically). In Gitmo you have this guy who is to the general public "innocent" and being "held without cause". To a lot of civilian authorities including Senators and Congressmen with limited security access, it seems like this is correct. They do tours of Gitmo and such but only get to see certain things.

Then eventually when someone gets into a position to make a desician, they also get access to ALL of the information about what is going on. Probably showing stuff like "Mr. Innocent" training with Al Queda, torturing kidnapped American tourists (years ago), killing kids, and then coming into the US and planning to committ acts of terrorism. The reason why this is not public because all of the footage has been put together over years by some agent (American or otherwise) who is in Deep Cover as a fairly high ranking terrorist and "leaks" stuff to the goverment to stop guys when they can do so without blowing it. Needless to say the guy can never be outed, brought in to witness during a trial, or even have the results of his work seen anywhere that could lead someone to put the pieces together and figure out who could have recorded all those specific things.

Suddenly, when your looking at stuff like that, and realize that your desician can affect the lives of millions, holding to some code of general morality is going to be secondary compared to your duty. No matter how corrupt you might be in certain areas, people DO tend to have standards, and the right thing to do is not always the GOOD thing to do.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

according to CNN [http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/10/22/musicians.guantanamo/index.html], even children's tunes, at extremely high volumes during questioning.

Holy shit, when I saw them do that on TV shows I thought they were kidding.

 

[ace_of_something]

I would think playing something droning and repetative would be more effective than a song.

 

[saregos]

I would think playing something droning and repetative would be more effective than a song.

I could make a snarky comment here about how to those artists, "something droning and repetitive" is a song.

 

[ace_of_something]

I would think playing something droning and repetative would be more effective than a song.

I could make a snarky comment here about how to those artists, "something droning and repetitive" is a song.

I'd be lying if I said "I didn't expect anyone to make that comment after I posted it'

 

[Xan Krieger]

They should be glad their music was used for a good cause other then just personal enjoyment. Here it was being used for national security.

 

[Brockyman]

One: Listening to REM and Pearl Jam IS torture for me. *satire*
Two: Don't these guys have anything better to do?
Three: If listening to music at high volumes constitutes torture, then all concerts should be illegal.

I'm sorry tired of lemon scented pussy wipes whining about treating terrorists to things no worse then frat boy pranks. In fact, I've seen worse torture in frat house hazings then this. Playing loud music; putting a terrorist in the room with a caterpillar; pushing them into walls DESIGNED to lessen impact; waterboarding... all this stuff is NOTHING!

 

[Artemis923]

I heard that they used Deicide in Guan Bay.

That's fuckin' br00talz.

 

[uppitycracker]

if I had to listen to REM and pearl jam, i'd tell em everything... hell, i'd ask em for the physical torture, PLUS i'd tell em everything, just to make it stop

 

[US Crash Fire]

Isn't it funny when celebrities think that their political opinions matter just because their famous?

 

[firedfns13]

Nope, I'm sorry, they used "PINK", Britney Spears, and Christina Aguilara. I was told so by a Marine that served in Iraq. Capture terrorists, stick em in prison in an underground bunker, make them listen to blaring spears... they snap quickly. God I would too.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

If the answer is yes, I'm guessing music critics will have a field day reviewing some of the albums these people release.

"Their music is so terrible, it was actually used by the government to torture suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay. I'm not joking. Here's a reference."

 

[Kollega]

Oh my. If their music is used to torture people,they should probably go and re-check it. It might be not as good as they think. In fact,this should be only legal way of interrogating terrorists - annoying them untill they give up.

 

[Terramax]

'Dear REM,

My mother once forced me to listen to one of your albums as a method of punishment.

My mother's address is as follows...

I would be greatful if you dealt with this situation as a matter of urgency.

Yours sincerely

Terramax'

 

[Raven's Nest]

Isn't it funny when celebrities think that their political opinions matter just because their famous?

Unfortunately most children and teenagers trust in and aspire to be like their favourite celebrities over politicians. So frankly their opinion does matter. However what they shouldn't say, is more important...


I heard the US played metallica and Hendrix over a battlefield in Iraq all night at high volume to cause their opponents stress and disorientaion... That's pretty funny... Wrong but funny.

 

[CrystalShadow]

the entire point of this is shed light on and call attention to what's going in Gitmo. this is an interesting enough angle that certain news organizations will probably pick up on it if it goes through.

As I explained in my previous message (which I expect a lot of flak for, not sure how long I'll respond here having started my opinion), I don't think Gitmo wants for attention. Nobody has forgotten about it. It's simply a reality check to our system of morality and how we wish the world was, compared to reality and how it actually is.

In the end I feel that for all the people who complain about it, the end result is the people in power, including those who cry out against Gitmo, wind up realizing that it's distasteful but nessicary. As a result nobody has closed it down, despite all the claims that "we're going to" which have been going on for years.

It's a public relations walk to make the people feel like they aren't being ignored, while at the same time doing what's nessicary for their own good.

That is how I see it for the most part. If Obama was to actually DO something about this for example, it would earn him some positive PR, but would also mark him as one of the stupidist presidents we've ever had, and we're likely to pay some hefty prices for him doing more than talking Cr@p about policy.

I tend to see it like this (hypothetically). In Gitmo you have this guy who is to the general public "innocent" and being "held without cause". To a lot of civilian authorities including Senators and Congressmen with limited security access, it seems like this is correct. They do tours of Gitmo and such but only get to see certain things.

Then eventually when someone gets into a position to make a desician, they also get access to ALL of the information about what is going on. Probably showing stuff like "Mr. Innocent" training with Al Queda, torturing kidnapped American tourists (years ago), killing kids, and then coming into the US and planning to committ acts of terrorism. The reason why this is not public because all of the footage has been put together over years by some agent (American or otherwise) who is in Deep Cover as a fairly high ranking terrorist and "leaks" stuff to the goverment to stop guys when they can do so without blowing it. Needless to say the guy can never be outed, brought in to witness during a trial, or even have the results of his work seen anywhere that could lead someone to put the pieces together and figure out who could have recorded all those specific things.

Suddenly, when your looking at stuff like that, and realize that your desician can affect the lives of millions, holding to some code of general morality is going to be secondary compared to your duty. No matter how corrupt you might be in certain areas, people DO tend to have standards, and the right thing to do is not always the GOOD thing to do.

I agree that sometimes you have to do certain things that may be distasteful, (or morally wrong, by certain people's perspectives), as a purely practical matter, but the problem is, torture is useless.

Scientific studies have repeatedly shown torture to be pretty much useless as a means of gathering information, which means you're only doing it for the sake of being a dick.
Which doesn't sit well with me, I have to say.

Why is torture useless? Because the goal of information gathering is to get 'true' information, you need to know that what you're being told is true.
So what do tortured people end up telling you? Precisely what you want to hear.
Not the truth.
Not some random lie...
No, they'll tell you what will stop you torturing them. And usually, that's whatever confirms your preconceptions about the person, wether it's true or not.

Lie detectors are equally dubious, yet continue to be used as 'evidence'...

I don't like using unethical methods to get a job done, but I can tolerate it.
What I object against is using unethical methods that don't even work...

 

[CyberKnight]

All this talk about music and torture...

Does anyone else have Weird Al's "Achy Breaky Song" stuck in their head now?

Not yet? Here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4M-4yDlvFo

 

[Kajin]

I would be honored if anything I ever designed was used for torture regardless of the original intent of said design.