Muslim Protestors Target Google

[Driekan]

That is most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an. It is most definitely a smear job, and you're falling for it.

The content described and the way he got it makes that plainly obvious.

Have you read the Quran? Because I read the first chapter off: http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=11 last night.

First six pages pretty much is a nonstop tirade segregating 'non-believers' and 'believers' ( a nice way to say a lot of name calling ): they are 'diseased,' 'liars,' 'deaf,' 'dumb,' 'blind,' 'fallen,' ( will not return ) 'ignorant' ( they are lying but do not realize it or do not perceive it so ). That's pretty intolerant, and while the text doesn't literally call for violence nor does it single out Christians, it is implied with the warning to ( not specifically Christians ) 'guard against the Fire of men and stones.'

Now, that's not a final impression of the Quran or Islam, that's a first impression. That's just the first chapter though, so who knows what mysteries the rest of the book holds right? I haven't read, neither has my brother, the entire text. But still, in the first six pages? That's not how you make a good impression.

You can respond with I'm a sheep, but can you actually spot a single where I've said anything actually false, misconstrued fact or otherwise stated anything I have to actually apologize for?

I don't read arabic too well so no, I have not read the Quran... Nor have you. You see, it cannot be translated.

You may read an interpretation of it, but that's all it is. A dude interpreting a text. Hence why I said this was most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an.

 

[Illyasviel]

TROLOLOLOL. Outstanding. It's funny how obviously people tend to fall for this crap
First of all. That is not the first page of the Quran. If you've ever seen the Roman script, you would know that "2" generally comes after one" and "14" comes wayyyy after 1.

Oh, my bad. The first chapter is like a prayer. There's seven verses. On the website, it is exactly one page. Immediately after that is the second chapter, which I mistook for the first chapter because the first chapter was so brief. But that still all within the first six pages so I'm not sure what your point is.

Bottom line is I'm reading that shit for fun. I explicitly stated I haven't read all of it, so I don't know what's in the rest of the book. I also stated in no place are Christians explicitly mentioned, it just divides people into 'believers' and 'non-believers.' Is that right terminology? I don't know, that's just the best way I could see to concisely summarize the ideas portrayed. If you have a bunch of footnotes attached with your text, attach them with your fucking text and cue me in, because otherwise, all I fucking see is five pages of 'they are different and therefore suck.' So what the fuck do you want for me? If you're trying to convert me or show me The Path, well, good job there with the insults.

I don't read arabic too well so no, I have not read the Quran... Nor have you. You see, it cannot be translated.

You may read an interpretation of it, but that's all it is. A dude interpreting a text. Hence why I said this was most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an.

Why can't it be translated? I just read a translation. And then I cross referenced another two translations just to be sure. So are the translators ( 'interpreters' ) sinners? I'm not even allowed to absorb any kind of meaning from the text because I'm not part of the exclusive club?

 

[ScourgeOfHell]

TROLOLOLOL. Outstanding. It's funny how obviously people tend to fall for this crap
First of all. That is not the first page of the Quran. If you've ever seen the Roman script, you would know that "2" generally comes after one" and "14" comes wayyyy after 1.

Oh, my bad. The first chapter is like a prayer. There's seven verses. On the website, it is exactly one page. Immediately after that is the second chapter, which I mistook for the first chapter because the first chapter was so brief. But that still all within the first six pages so I'm not sure what your point is.

Bottom line is I'm reading that shit for fun. I explicitly stated I haven't read all of it, so I don't know what's in the rest of the book. I also stated in no place are Christians explicitly mentioned, it just divides people into 'believers' and 'non-believers.' Is that right terminology? I don't know, that's just the best way I could see to concisely summarize the ideas portrayed. If you have a bunch of footnotes attached with your text, attach them with your fucking text and cue me in, because otherwise, all I fucking see is five pages of 'they are different and suck.' So what the fuck do you want for me? If you're trying to convert me or show me the path, well, good job there with the insults.

Why would I bother converting you? That would be a waste of my time. Despite what you may think, Islam is pretty much against preaching. Live and let live

For the record, the first word of the Quran, in the order that it was revealed, is "Learn. Learn in the name of your god"

And secondly, it's not my fault you try to read the Quran out of context.

 

[cerebus23]

That is most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an. It is most definitely a smear job, and you're falling for it.

The content described and the way he got it makes that plainly obvious.

Have you read the Quran? Because I read the first chapter off: http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=11 last night.

First six pages pretty much is a nonstop tirade segregating 'non-believers' and 'believers' ( a nice way to say a lot of name calling ): they are 'diseased,' 'liars,' 'deaf,' 'dumb,' 'blind,' 'fallen,' ( will not return ) 'ignorant' ( they are lying but do not realize it or do not perceive it so ). That's pretty intolerant, and while the text doesn't literally call for violence nor does it single out Christians, it is implied with the warning to ( not specifically Christians ) 'guard against the Fire of men and stones.'

Now, that's not a final impression of the Quran or Islam, that's a first impression. That's just the first chapter though, so who knows what mysteries the rest of the book holds right? I haven't read, neither has my brother, the entire text. But still, in the first six pages? That's not how you make a good impression.

You can respond with I'm a sheep, but can you actually spot a single where I've said anything actually false, misconstrued fact or otherwise stated anything I have to actually apologize for?

I don't read arabic too well so no, I have not read the Quran... Nor have you. You see, it cannot be translated.

You may read an interpretation of it, but that's all it is. A dude interpreting a text. Hence why I said this was most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an.

fail to see how a text cannot be translated, in this big wide open world. so you are saying because, i assume there is some law that it cannot be translated in muslim land, that means that noone else has done it? and therefore that poster could not possibly be reading an accurate translation of it?

yea stop applying a relgions laws to the entire world that is all. part of the reason we have these problems is because some idiots decided that their religion rules us all and if we disagree with that then we are evil.

only stuff i see "christians" get this worked up about is science judging from the way that stuff gets trolled constantly on youtube. gays do not even get the amount of hate anything science related gets.

and i also find the whole greece thing as a mix of amusing and disgusting, considering that whole nations history of homosexuality.

grats on reaching troll worthiness islam you deserve it.

 

[Driekan]

TROLOLOLOL. Outstanding. It's funny how obviously people tend to fall for this crap
First of all. That is not the first page of the Quran. If you've ever seen the Roman script, you would know that "2" generally comes after one" and "14" comes wayyyy after 1.

Oh, my bad. The first chapter is like a prayer. There's seven verses. On the website, it is exactly one page. Immediately after that is the second chapter, which I mistook for the first chapter because the first chapter was so brief. But that still all within the first six pages so I'm not sure what your point is.

Bottom line is I'm reading that shit for fun. I explicitly stated I haven't read all of it, so I don't know what's in the rest of the book. I also stated in no place are Christians explicitly mentioned, it just divides people into 'believers' and 'non-believers.' Is that right terminology? I don't know, that's just the best way I could see to concisely summarize the ideas portrayed. If you have a bunch of footnotes attached with your text, attach them with your fucking text and cue me in, because otherwise, all I fucking see is five pages of 'they are different and suck.' So what the fuck do you want for me? If you're trying to convert me or show me the path, well, good job there with the insults.

The Qur'an has no footnotes attached. Seems to be a common occurence in holy books.

Let me see if I follow. You are having difficulty following the cultural relevance of a book 1.3 millenia old, which you are reading "for fun", with no attempt to find relevant information concerning the period, people and events mentioned, etc.

And you blame the book, somehow?

In my experience (Which is limited, I openly admit), christians are generally portrayed in exceedingly positive light in the Qur'an. Historically speaking, when his followers were first persecuted, the prophet sent some of his followers to seek refuge in Abyssinia, from the christian king who lived there, and a lasting bond of respect and friendship was born of that.

When he took Mecca and had all the idols in the city destroyed, the only one he spared (And he did so by personally setting hand on it to protect it) was an image of Mary and Jesus. Pretty significant gesture.

The Qur'an explicitly indicates that the Bible is a holy book and a guide given to men by god, and further confirms Jesus as a prophet. Anyone who says that there is anything inherently inimical to christians in the Qur'an is talking out of their asses.

 

[Musiclly enhanced]

wait what a protest that diddnt cause a metric shit tonne in damage to poor unsuspecting businesses and it a religious group actually sticking to good and sensible morals and resonably proving a point?
wow what an odd situation

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

wait what? what was four blocks away? congratulations on not being specific and sounding condescending.

i say the EXACT same thing about jews/christians/whatever the fuck you are, it's a god damn video on the goddamn internet.

So you don't read apparently, not even what you write yourself. If you had actually paid attention instead of going on your blind, hate filled rant you would realize that I was talking about the mosque that you apparently was not aware of that was already in the vicinity and didn't bother to do the research to find out about. But hey why let a little thing like facts get in the way of a bile filled hate-mongering, right? After all, you yourself are saying that these people should "get the fuck out" for exercising their rights in a peaceful manner because you don't like it. I mean, they're Muslims after all, it's not like they're people in your eyes.

And don't even try that BS of "same thing regardless of religion" because as I said earlier that same article has a section in it of a FAR worse incident yet you blindly ignore it to bash people who follow the Muslim religion.

what? you were being very unspecific at first so i was trying to clarify what you meant. no, i hadn't realized a mosque was there 4 blocks away, which i have no problem with it being there actually, i never said i did? i'm sorry that i don't do research on every building in a city that i don't live in nor have ever been to. the reason why i was pissed off had NOTHING to do with that mosque nor ground zero. I've said MULTIPLE times in this thread and before that you are welcome to have your beliefs, that i have no problem with, but when you get pissed off/try to do something about every little thing that doesn't line up with your beliefs, that's when i do have a problem, and if they don't like the fact that the people who made the video have those rights then they can simply ignore it/deal with it like a normal person, or simply not use the internet.

i couldn't care less if they are muslim or not, i think it's idiotic, if they actually wanted to send formal peaceful complains they should do it to the owners of the video, not to random google employees when the video is well within the rights of the users.

a far worse incident? what are you referring to? i'm too lazy to go back and look so please, enlighten me if you really think i'm blindly bashing muslims.

 

[ScourgeOfHell]

That is most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an. It is most definitely a smear job, and you're falling for it.

The content described and the way he got it makes that plainly obvious.

Have you read the Quran? Because I read the first chapter off: http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=11 last night.

First six pages pretty much is a nonstop tirade segregating 'non-believers' and 'believers' ( a nice way to say a lot of name calling ): they are 'diseased,' 'liars,' 'deaf,' 'dumb,' 'blind,' 'fallen,' ( will not return ) 'ignorant' ( they are lying but do not realize it or do not perceive it so ). That's pretty intolerant, and while the text doesn't literally call for violence nor does it single out Christians, it is implied with the warning to ( not specifically Christians ) 'guard against the Fire of men and stones.'

Now, that's not a final impression of the Quran or Islam, that's a first impression. That's just the first chapter though, so who knows what mysteries the rest of the book holds right? I haven't read, neither has my brother, the entire text. But still, in the first six pages? That's not how you make a good impression.

You can respond with I'm a sheep, but can you actually spot a single where I've said anything actually false, misconstrued fact or otherwise stated anything I have to actually apologize for?

I don't read arabic too well so no, I have not read the Quran... Nor have you. You see, it cannot be translated.

You may read an interpretation of it, but that's all it is. A dude interpreting a text. Hence why I said this was most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an.

fail to see how a text cannot be translated, in this big wide open world. so you are saying because, i assume there is some law that it cannot be translated in muslim land, that means that noone else has done it? and therefore that poster could not possibly be reading an accurate translation of it?

yea stop applying a relgions laws to the entire world that is all. part of the reason we have these problems is because some idiots decided that their religion rules us all and if we disagree with that then we are evil.

only stuff i see "christians" get this worked up about is science judging from the way that stuff gets trolled constantly on youtube. gays do not even get the amount of hate anything science related gets.

and i also find the whole greece thing as a mix of amusing and disgusting, considering that whole nations history of homosexuality.

grats on reaching troll worthiness islam you deserve it.

Let's put it this way. If I simultaneously insulted you, your family, your friends, your way of life, your skin color, and your accent, would you stand there, and do nothing about it? Well, imagine all of those insults, magnified tenfold. That's what that video is like, for muslims.

And if you're wondering why the book can't be translated without footnotes. Urmmm, why don't you try translating a 1300 year old book, written in a dialect that's no longer used, using metaphors no longer used, targeted at a culture that no longer bloody EXISTS.

And no one asked you to accept Islam. All they asked, is that you respect their belief, and go on with your pathetic existence, in peace.

 

[Driekan]

fail to see how a text cannot be translated, in this big wide open world. so you are saying because, i assume there is some law that it cannot be translated in muslim land, that means that noone else has done it? and therefore that poster could not possibly be reading an accurate translation of it?

yea stop applying a relgions laws to the entire world that is all. part of the reason we have these problems is because some idiots decided that their religion rules us all and if we disagree with that then we are evil.

only stuff i see "christians" get this worked up about is science judging from the way that stuff gets trolled constantly on youtube. gays do not even get the amount of hate anything science related gets.

and i also find the whole greece thing as a mix of amusing and disgusting, considering that whole nations history of homosexuality.

grats on reaching troll worthiness islam you deserve it.

There's two ways to look at it. One demands that you have respect for other people, and an awareness of how religious thought works. The other one is a bit more secular.

First one is pretty simple, really. The Qur'an is a religious work. It must be read with a religious lens, otherwise you are projecting onto it a reference invalid to it.

So you put the religious lens on to try and interpret this thing. Okay. Now part of the claim here is that this is a book written by god. God wrote it, in that language, in that way. He chose the words, one by one. He chose the terms, the metric, the rhyme, everything.

Now, still with the religious lens on. Can a human equal god's work? I would assume not. So can a human get this text, interpret it, and then write another set of words, with another metric, another rhyme, another everything and claim that it is just as good? That it is equivalent?

No, a human couldn't. That means that attempting to translate it invalidates the work. That means there is no true translation of the work.

So that's number one. You may not believe the claim that it is written by god, but I assume you can understand (And possibly respect) their belief in this matter.

It further serves to lead to number two. Due to this belief, there is no accepted, condoned, or in any way authorized translation of the Qur'an. There are interpretations and studies, and some of those are meant to help non-muslims who do not speak arabic have an understanding of islam. Yes, it's true. But they are not to be considered accurate. Having worked as a translator, that is a policy that makes plenty of sense to me: Accurate translations of complicated (As opposed to complex) cultural works are not possible.

However, if something claims to be the Qur'an, but is in english, and is being handed out in schools to anyone who wants one... And knowing what I just said... Should that not get some warning bells going?

PS: As said, my knowledge on the subject is second-hand. If I am wrong and someone has better knowledge about this, please correct me.

 

[Illyasviel]

It further serves to lead to number two. Due to this belief, there is no accepted, condoned, or in any way authorized translation of the Qur'an. There are interpretations and studies, and some of those are meant to help non-muslims who do not speak arabic have an understanding of islam. Yes, it's true. But they are not to be considered accurate. Having worked as a translator, that is a policy that makes plenty of sense to me: Accurate translations of complicated (As opposed to complex) cultural works are not possible.

However, if something claims to be the Qur'an, but is in english, and is being handed out in schools to anyone who wants one... And knowing what I just said... Should that not get some warning bells going?

So I'm not permitted to glean any type of understanding, or anything, period because I'm not part of an exclusive club? Awesome.

No, not really. I have like a dozen mini-Bibles, one or two actual Bibles and a Book of Mormon somewhere in my house. All given to me for free! A lot of those guys are pretty nice! Besides, isn't that what they did after they invented the printing press or something? Mass produce Bibles and sold them for like a penny? Somebody wants to give me a Quran? I don't feel like wasting time trying to decline it? I mean have you been to an uni during club rush? Some of those guys can be pushy! So, hey, I have a Quran! I guess that's pretty cool!

And secondly, it's not my fault you try to read the Quran out of context.

Let me see if I follow. You are having difficulty following the cultural relevance of a book 1.3 millenia old, which you are reading "for fun", with no attempt to find relevant information concerning the period, people and events

What context? I'm reading it literally.

Let's see, the last times I went to church, which granted was way over a decade ago because I'm not religious, I don't recall people telling me all about the relevant information concerning the period, people and events. Maybe because I was young I don't recall so great, but they more or less just read bits and pieces, and sometimes, they told me to read some bits and pieces. Sure, the text itself describes people and events, but I wasn't exactly given a copy of Sparknotes to go along with my whatever text. So unless things have changed or Islamics really do go about the whole thing differently, I'm likely absorbing the information the exact same way your typical religious guy going into his institute of faith absorbs the information.

Are you telling me that every single church in the world, without exception, doubles as a college level course in history and anthropology? Because it seems you're confusing your scholarly academia with the real world.

 

[cerebus23]

That is most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an. It is most definitely a smear job, and you're falling for it.

The content described and the way he got it makes that plainly obvious.

Have you read the Quran? Because I read the first chapter off: http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=11 last night.

First six pages pretty much is a nonstop tirade segregating 'non-believers' and 'believers' ( a nice way to say a lot of name calling ): they are 'diseased,' 'liars,' 'deaf,' 'dumb,' 'blind,' 'fallen,' ( will not return ) 'ignorant' ( they are lying but do not realize it or do not perceive it so ). That's pretty intolerant, and while the text doesn't literally call for violence nor does it single out Christians, it is implied with the warning to ( not specifically Christians ) 'guard against the Fire of men and stones.'

Now, that's not a final impression of the Quran or Islam, that's a first impression. That's just the first chapter though, so who knows what mysteries the rest of the book holds right? I haven't read, neither has my brother, the entire text. But still, in the first six pages? That's not how you make a good impression.

You can respond with I'm a sheep, but can you actually spot a single where I've said anything actually false, misconstrued fact or otherwise stated anything I have to actually apologize for?

I don't read arabic too well so no, I have not read the Quran... Nor have you. You see, it cannot be translated.

You may read an interpretation of it, but that's all it is. A dude interpreting a text. Hence why I said this was most definitely not a copy of the Qur'an.

fail to see how a text cannot be translated, in this big wide open world. so you are saying because, i assume there is some law that it cannot be translated in muslim land, that means that noone else has done it? and therefore that poster could not possibly be reading an accurate translation of it?

yea stop applying a relgions laws to the entire world that is all. part of the reason we have these problems is because some idiots decided that their religion rules us all and if we disagree with that then we are evil.

only stuff i see "christians" get this worked up about is science judging from the way that stuff gets trolled constantly on youtube. gays do not even get the amount of hate anything science related gets.

and i also find the whole greece thing as a mix of amusing and disgusting, considering that whole nations history of homosexuality.

grats on reaching troll worthiness islam you deserve it.

Let's put it this way. If I simultaneously insulted you, your family, your friends, your way of life, your skin color, and your accent, would you stand there, and do nothing about it? Well, imagine all of those insults, magnified tenfold. That's what that video is like, for muslims.

And if you're wondering why the book can't be translated without footnotes. Urmmm, why don't you try translating a 1300 year old book, written in a dialect that's no longer used, using metaphors no longer used, targeted at a culture that no longer bloody EXISTS.

And no one asked you to accept Islam. All they asked, is that you respect their belief, and go on with your pathetic existence, in peace.

I do generally respect peoples choices but i do not respect peoples choices being thrust upon me or the whole of the rest of the world. that is where we differ and differ greatly. i never respected so called christians telling me i am going to hell for my choice in radio programming, i have no respect for muslims telling south park, france, england, usa, google that their beliefs should apply to them.

freedom of speech trumps religious sensitivity. and sensible people ignore or discuss and challenge ideas that offend them.

i got no issue with them writing google asking for this stuff to be removed, but in this current modern climate of rabid zealots, in large part created by the governments in the middle east, i do have issue with people at a google office that had little to do with anything involved in this whole affair being terrorized because a bunch of them show up their doorstep.

group of chistians show up and you can pretty much ignore them, group of muslims show up and you barricade the doors, not going well for this whole religion of peace thing.

and didnt the united nations create israel? and did not israel expand its borders when it was attacked and trounced the arab nations?

i not seen too many aggressors that got thumped soundly turn around and demand their lost territory back after they attacked and lost. maybe they should just get over israel and learn to live and let live and move the hell on and start building their own lives instead of using that to fuel your anger and leaving their nations in absolute squalor because they spend their human aid on weapons, or in yasser arafats case fattening up his bank account for his wife.

the arab world has enough blame on their own shoulders for their current state, and instead of blaming everyone else for it maybe they ought to fix their own problems first.

i do not think that is too much to ask or unreasonable at all. nor do i think it is unreasonable to ask them to respect others rights of freedom of speech and expression.

 

[Driekan]

-snip-

Right. And you did not grow up in a primarily christian society, had no contact with christian iconography, symbolism or concepts, and had never seen an image of Jesus prior to first hearing these pieces from the bible - which I assume, of course, you first heard after reaching adulthood.

I have to be honest man, I cannot read what you just wrote and not think you're being disingenuous.

 

[Driekan]

-snip-

I think you should do some studying. Your history? You got it wrong. Apparently all of it.

 

[Illyasviel]

-snip-

Right. And you did not grow up in a primarily christian society, had no contact with christian iconography, symbolism or concepts, and had never seen an image of Jesus prior to first hearing these pieces from the bible - which I assume, of course, you first heard after reaching adulthood.

I have to be honest man, I cannot read what you just wrote and not think you're being disingenuous.

Oh, hey, always avoiding my point. Slippery man, you.

I lump all those texts together and treat them as fiction. I am my own man.

Oh, hey, one of your badges is a picture of Solid Snake. TELL ME ALL ABOUT HIM. IS HE DATING ANYBODY?! HOW MANY DUDES HAS HE SHOT?! HOW OLD IS HE?! WHAT WAS HIS FOURTH MISSION?! AND HIS EIGHTEENTH?! WHO WAS HE FIGHTING?!

Exactly. Its just noise.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

*Sigh* This again? And why doesn't Google want to remove the "offensive" video, but those of so-called "stolen media"? Or am I just overthinking it?

Anyway, I understand why they're mad... but they're going about it all wrong...

 

[cerebus23]

fail to see how a text cannot be translated, in this big wide open world. so you are saying because, i assume there is some law that it cannot be translated in muslim land, that means that noone else has done it? and therefore that poster could not possibly be reading an accurate translation of it?

yea stop applying a relgions laws to the entire world that is all. part of the reason we have these problems is because some idiots decided that their religion rules us all and if we disagree with that then we are evil.

only stuff i see "christians" get this worked up about is science judging from the way that stuff gets trolled constantly on youtube. gays do not even get the amount of hate anything science related gets.

and i also find the whole greece thing as a mix of amusing and disgusting, considering that whole nations history of homosexuality.

grats on reaching troll worthiness islam you deserve it.

There's two ways to look at it. One demands that you have respect for other people, and an awareness of how religious thought works. The other one is a bit more secular.

First one is pretty simple, really. The Qur'an is a religious work. It must be read with a religious lens, otherwise you are projecting onto it a reference invalid to it.

So you put the religious lens on to try and interpret this thing. Okay. Now part of the claim here is that this is a book written by god. God wrote it, in that language, in that way. He chose the words, one by one. He chose the terms, the metric, the rhyme, everything.

Now, still with the religious lens on. Can a human equal god's work? I would assume not. So can a human get this text, interpret it, and then write another set of words, with another metric, another rhyme, another everything and claim that it is just as good? That it is equivalent?

No, a human couldn't. That means that attempting to translate it invalidates the work. That means there is no true translation of the work.

So that's number one. You may not believe the claim that it is written by god, but I assume you can understand (And possibly respect) their belief in this matter.

It further serves to lead to number two. Due to this belief, there is no accepted, condoned, or in any way authorized translation of the Qur'an. There are interpretations and studies, and some of those are meant to help non-muslims who do not speak arabic have an understanding of islam. Yes, it's true. But they are not to be considered accurate. Having worked as a translator, that is a policy that makes plenty of sense to me: Accurate translations of complicated (As opposed to complex) cultural works are not possible.

However, if something claims to be the Qur'an, but is in english, and is being handed out in schools to anyone who wants one... And knowing what I just said... Should that not get some warning bells going?

PS: As said, my knowledge on the subject is second-hand. If I am wrong and someone has better knowledge about this, please correct me.

heck i was raised christian and i find it absolutely laughable that anything in those old books is the literal word of god.

religion is the work of man, period. most of the stories in the old testament we passed down orally from years past, many of the stores were fitted to their own cultures, noah and etc were stories from other cultures.

and the great social experiment, take a room full of people tell the first person in the room a story have that person tell the story to the next person and the detail maybe even the whole story is changed by the time it reaches the end of the room.

so yea i personally discount the idea that anything written down was the work of god simply because it makes zero sense in how people pass on stories, outside the navajo indians that developed code talking just to avoid the fail that is verbal communication, so their stores are absolute accurate.

 

[IamGamer41]

There is absolutely nothing that this religion gives to the world other then the killing of innocent people or people who disagree with them.While you can say other religions do the same thing I have yet to see any Christens or Catholics blow themselves up in a crowed area or shoot a 14 year old girl in the head for speaking out for women's rights.

How this religion has brained washed the so called million's or so people who are Muslim's on this planet I'll never know.

 

[Driekan]

-snip-

We agree there. You see, if you believe that there is a god (Which a lot of people do, apparently) and he is omnipotent... Then he has the power to communicate a perfect concept to a human. I mean, he can do anything, right?

But if any human interferes with what was communicated in any way whatsoever, even adding a single dot or a dash... Then it is no longer the work of this omnipotent being who is capable of communicating perfect concepts.

The Qur'an is written word, written in a specific language, in a specific way... And if things are to be believed, it was always the way it is now. Which is pretty nifty.

Details like these are the things that make Islam one of the current major religions that I like the most. This concern with keeping things coherent.

In case you are wondering... I am, indeed, an atheist.

 

[Illyasviel]

We agree there. You see, if you believe that there is a god (Which a lot of people do, apparently) and he is omnipotent... Then he has the power to communicate a perfect concept to a human. I mean, he can do anything, right?

But if any human interferes with what was communicated in any way whatsoever, even adding a single dot or a dash... Then it is no longer the work of this omnipotent being who is capable of communicating perfect concepts.

The Qur'an is written word, written in a specific language, in a specific way... And if things are to be believed, it was always the way it is now. Which is pretty nifty.

And does not preclude others from gathering a meaning from it. Never read a Harry Potter book ( again, universal yardstick )? No problem. Magic happens at a place called Hogwarts. Magic also happens outside of Hogwarts too. Now you know something about Harry Potter.

Yes, I know that is a very simplified example. Don't try to extrapolate something silly from it.

And yet, you are telling me it is impossible to do what I just did.

I'm not saying what you are saying is untrue. I haven't read the rest of the book. If you say its full of good times and camaraderie, it probably is. But how about you go read the first six pages, and you tell me what it says and what impression it makes?

Oh wait, I already know the response to that. "I can't read it. It cannot be translated. Therefore, what you are saying is false."

Its great you can have an academic approach, but keep in mind that the majority of the Muslim world is highly uneducated. They blindly trust their Imams. I'm just trying to approach this like an average guy would.