My Experience With WRPGs

[veloper]

thats what I'm saying, I just don't understand the concept of "role-playing". And personal profit lies at the heart of game-theory as a whole... games are all about trying to reach objectives

Playing RPGs that way, just trying to win, is perfectly fine. It's called gamist.

What gamists do not want from RPGs is obvious choices, but rather choices that have different cons and pros, that are optimal for different game positions.
We rarely have this thing though.

 

[Talshere]

Generally I find the plots of JRPG's to be moderate. I play it by finding out where I have to go, gonig there and killing the dude there. The constant SWISH into the turn based style combat system as I get jumped for the 13th time in 30 seconds by level 1 mobs severely breaks the flow of the game. It would be slightly more bearable if the mobs were actually of consequence, but at this point I normally just /flee because I get literally nothing from killing them

JRPG charactors are generally ignorable. With normally only one other character besides yourself actually have any plot at all, that being the love interest.

Generally I can enjoy them except for one overbaring problem I have with JRPG.

On almost every JRPG Ive ever played, the FF series suffering horribly from this. I get to the final boss, or reach a boss I am physically incapable of defeating due to my level.

I hear most ppl at the end of FF9 were like level 70. I was like level 35. I narrowly scrapped past the penultimate boss, only to go straight into the final boss with 2 party members down almost no pots left, and my entire party 1 shottable by his AoE attack even from full health.

I thuroughtly enjoyed a game some of you might remember "The legend of Dragoon" I believe it was called. The Dragoon mode was so go I had leveled it to hell at great expense to my standard from. I walked into this town, changed to disk 3 which had me save, then immediately had to fight this dragon which dealt 600% damage to anyone in dragoon mode. This didnt bother me so much. Ok so my power leveling of dragoon had come back to bite me in the ass. Fair enough. What got me was that I could physically leave this area until I defeated the dragon, had no mobs to grind levels on, and couldnt go back to disk 2. After trying for several days I eventually gave it up as hopeless.

This is a common problem I have in JRPG's.

WRPGs I generally like the other party members and they almost always have deep backgrounds. Personally I never like Morrowind. The combat was poor, the story was meh. And I agree with you that often the moral choice system has little to no effect on the story. And while this doesnt degrade a good story it gives the game bulk it doesnt need. Dragon age was a good one to site for that. Going evil changes only who your allies are at the end who are just identical with different skins to the good guys.

I will say however that in mass effect. The moral choice system is amazing. And while some things have little consequence, some of the choices you make in ME1 can affect the plot in interesting way in ME2 and no doubt will in ME3 as well. This is a rare example however of moral choice done right however, generally they are near useless.

Idk. An RPG should be about plot imo. And I have to say while some WRPG's care very little about plot(Boarderlands) the good WRPG plots are just so much better than the cut paste love story rescue the princess and kill the evil king plots that are every single JRPG ever written.

 

[Velocity Eleven]

on a side note, I wish games wouldn't get rid of random battles and turn-based combat... cause I find them to be the mst appealing

 

[Korolev]

for example, if somebody comes up to you and asks for your help, you get the choice whether to help or not. When I come to such a decision i take the variables into account, will I benefit in the long term for helping them? taking into account the time and effort it takes to do so? that's how I come to my conclusion. If I discover that it IS worth the time and effort then I have no reason to not do it. The question of "do I want to be good or evil?" doesn't even enter the equation. And of course there is never a way to truely tell what action will result in what consequence in the long run. I was playing Dragon Age: Origins and if memory serves me correctly I had the option of saying "I want to go to war" purely because I thought it would give me the opportunity to try out the battle mechanics, but instead I just got shouted at.

This does mean that the story can go multiple ways, I'm aware of that. But I would much rather have a well-crafted linear story (or no story at all). That way I can say what the "true" story of the game is. The problem I had with Dragon Age: Origins is that I had to make a decision after every 4 or 5 lines of dialogue, which meant I had to check through them to see what would be logically fitting, it got very tedious and I couldn't percieve any distict long-term consequences. If creating my own story is the appeal of these games, then why can't we just create stories without the game mechanics?

That is one of the reasons why I play Western RPGs (although I play JRPGs just as much). Sometimes I WANT to have to make decisions, without knowing which way the plot turns. Sometimes I want to feel as if I have a way to actually impact the game and the outcomes of the missions. In JRPGs, I almost never have that opportunity.

With JRPGs, I get the sensation that I am not actually playing a RPG. I'm just fighting the battles. I don't feel as if I am the character - I feel as if I'm the battle manager.

The story of Dragon Age is actually REALLY GOOD, if you give it a chance. Yes, there is no "canon" way the events progress - but BioWare have been careful to make sure that you can continue with the story line regardless of the decisions you make, and that there is a definite progression of events that add structure to the story. It's just that you can influence exactly how each segment plays out.

I love the Final Fantasy series quite a bit - played through almost all of them. I enjoy the story presented in most of them as well (except for FFVIII, which was alright), but I feel as if the entire thing is static. I do not feel as if I am playing a role. Sure I get to choose which spells to cast or which monsters to hit, but if all I'm doing is killing monsters, why put the game mechanics in? Why not just write a book? Sometimes I feel as if I'm just playing an interactive story, in which I have to work just to make it progress, rather than have any real control over the outcome. Sometimes I wonder why the player even has to be there.

To be honest, all games are somewhat linear. Even a game like Mass Effect 2, which I love to death, is not "truly" open ended at all - it just boils down to one of two paths. But at least I'm given two paths. At least I can change some elements of the story. At least I have a reason to play through it again.

Look - just play Mass Effect 2. That game is the reason why WRPGs can be good. JRPGs can also be good - sometimes I just want a good story and I like level-up grinding. But in general, I feel that WRPGs do a better effort at integrating the player, to make them feel as if they ARE the character, as if they actually ARE in the game. It's an illusion, I know, but it's good to find a game that pulls it off.

 

[wkim564]

Well, I do enjoy jrpgs (Persona and Shin Megami Tensai and only FFX and IX) more often than wrpgs (games like oblivion), the wrpgs I find myself enjoying the most aren't necessarily the ones with a moral choice system, but an incredible plot. For this reason I usually find myself gravitating to publishers like Quantic Dream and Bioware because of their amazing abilty to weave a plot. Also, I enjoy the shallow yet enjoyable turn based strategy aspect of rpgs, which are not usually present in wrpgs (bioware games are an exception.

 

[Velocity Eleven]

I don't feel as if I am the character - I feel as if I'm the battle manager.

I never feel like I "am" the character in any game

I do not feel as if I am playing a role. Sure I get to choose which spells to cast or which monsters to hit, but if all I'm doing is killing monsters, why put the game mechanics in? Why not just write a book?

they're not even remotely similar... what about the customisation? take FF8 for example, you equip the different GFs, abilities, learn different abilities at different times (prioritising)

Why put the mechanics in? because that's what makes it fun... if FF8 was a book I'd probably have no interest

 

[StriderShinryu]

I have little to add other than to echo what has already been said; the aspect you don't seem to enjoy about WRPGs is what many people who enjoy them play them for specifically: the attempt at bringing RP into an RPG. Not all choices will have consequences, and for those that do have consequences, the consequences are not always immediate and obvious. Also, sometimes the consequences are big, sometimes they are small. The best WRPGs I've played, and I'm fairly new to the genre myself, are Dragon Age and ME1/2. Yes, both do have overall plotlines that you follow regardless of the choices you make, but your individual choices do not only change the events you experience but they also do very drastically change how the games end.

I enjoy JRPGs as well, but I don't feel like the character in a JRPG and I wish more JRPGs included more actual RP elements (like my dear Star Ocean 2 did). With a JPRG I feel more like I am watching a story or experiencing a story than I feel I am living a story. Both, when done well, provide great entertainment, but each has it's own feeling and flavour.

Oh, and as to the issues with doing minor things like changing eyebrow thickness. I absolutely love being able to customize how my character looks. The more the better. For those who don't like it, I know ME1/2 and DA at least provide a few stock appearance characters you can play as, but being able to customize your appearance is another huge deal to fans of WRPGs. After playing my custom made Shepard through both ME1 and ME2, he is what I think of when I think of the game. Customization really can make that big of an impression.
... then again, I'm also a customization nut so I'm all over even minor things like games that actually show your equipped equipment on your characters or the earnable alternate outfits that many of the Tales games have.

 

[Sebenko]

You want decisions that matter? Try Mount & Blade.

The goal is what you say it is. Want to find a place for yourself? get some money trading? take over the world? betray your king after they didn't grant you the castle you and your men fought for? Take over the world without a kingdom to back you up?

I also like making sure my character is who I want to be. I don't want to be "lead paint hair adrogene the thirtybillionth". I find preset characters with preset attitudes unbearable. The only game that did this that I didn't hate was Gothic, which managed to do it in an entertaining way ("My name i..." "I don't give a damn, do my quest")

Of course, my favourite RPG ever, Morrowind, shows just what I like about RPGs. In games like Final Fantasy (and sadly, Dragon Age), there appear to be no other locations than places that are story important of repositories for the power of the gods or something. In morrowind, I could go wherever the hell I liked, without knowing where I'd end up.
Then again, Oblivion did that, and I hated it. but whatever. Morrowind > JRPGs, WRPGs, whatever.

Disregard that, I forgot what I was saying.

What I really hate in RPGs, both "W" and "J", is people who go "ooo, [location] RPGs sux becoz...".

I've enjoyed JRPGs- Tales of Phantasia, the Front Mission series, etc.
I've enjoyed WRPGs- Morrowind, Gothic 1&2, Dragon Age and others.
I've also hated many RPGs- Oblivion, Crisis Core and a few others.
But some are good, some are bad, and I don't give two shits about "WRPGs" and "JRPGs". I like RPGs.

So be quiet, go play your RPGs and enjoy them. Forget other RPGs exist and lose yourself in their world. That's what they're there for.

 

[Velocity Eleven]

I'm not saying WRPGs inherently suck, like I said, I do see good game mechanics within the WRPGs that I played

 

[More Fun To Compute]

You want decisions that matter? Try Mount & Blade.

Mount & Blade is well worth playing and is a direction I would like to see more RPGs go in even though someone will no doubt come along and tell me why it either isn't an RPG or why RPGs should not go in that direction.

It is Turkish though so I am not sure that you could call it a western RPG exactly though I suppose you could accurately say that Turkey is west of Japan. This is becoming Japan vs the world though which is slightly silly especially when people ignore the variety of RPGs that come out of Japan.

 

[Axolotl]

I have to ask have you tried any Black Isle titles? As in Fallout or Planescape Torment?

Fallout doesn't sound like your sort of gmae (but I'd still recommend giving it a go) but Planescape is a WRPG that behaves alot like a JRPG and has possibly the best story of any game and easily the best writing of any RPG I've played.

 

[VanityGirl]

I enjoy both... however.

If you play Mass Effect, you can clearly see that your actions effect gameplay. If you play the sequel, the consequences of the first game carry over.

 

[reg42]

You're reading into the fact that you can make some choices too much. For the most part, choices aren't there to change the storyline, they're there saying "Hey mate, you wanna help this family? You may get an item or two if you do.". The fact that you say the choices don't impact on the game (I think that's what you're saying, you were a tad hard to follow) is strange, because JPRG's generally don't give you any choice. And in the case of no choice, as apposed to some minor choice, choice wins.

EDIT: I do enjoy both JRPG's and WRPG's though. They both have desirable characteristics.

 

[Flames66]

I disagree with you. The main reason for my love of open stories is that my character is me. If I am playing a game, I'm not playing as cloud, master chief or gordon freeman, it is me in the story doing those actions. I have refused to finnish several games because they forced me to do something I disagreed with.

 

[Sebenko]

You want decisions that matter? Try Mount & Blade.

The goal is what you say it is. Want to find a place for yourself? get some money trading? take over the world? betray your king after they didn't grant you the castle you and your men fought for? Take over the world without a kingdom to back you up?

I also like making sure my character is who I want to be. I don't want to be "lead paint hair adrogene the thirtybillionth". I find preset characters with preset attitudes unbearable. The only game that did this that I didn't hate was Gothic, which managed to do it in an entertaining way ("My name i..." "I don't give a damn, do my quest")

Of course, my favourite RPG ever, Morrowind, shows just what I like about RPGs. In games like Final Fantasy (and sadly, Dragon Age), there appear to be no other locations than places that are story important of repositories for the power of the gods or something. In morrowind, I could go wherever the hell I liked, without knowing where I'd end up.
Then again, Oblivion did that, and I hated it. but whatever. Morrowind > JRPGs, WRPGs, whatever.

Disregard that, I forgot what I was saying.

What I really hate in RPGs, both "W" and "J", is people who go "ooo, [location] RPGs sux becoz...".

I've enjoyed JRPGs- Tales of Phantasia, the Front Mission series, etc.
I've enjoyed WRPGs- Morrowind, Gothic 1&2, Dragon Age and others.
I've also hated many RPGs- Oblivion, Crisis Core and a few others.
But some are good, some are bad, and I don't give two shits about "WRPGs" and "JRPGs". I like RPGs.

So be quiet, go play your RPGs and enjoy them. Forget other RPGs exist and lose yourself in their world. That's what they're there for.

Hated Crisis Core
I DEMAND AN EXPLANATION. The ending was brilliant, the way it used the DMW.

That red coated ******. Genesis, was it? We all knew what the ending, but most of the game felt like it had just crowbarred that guy in to poorly link together the events that were seen in FFVII. Also, random level up/ limit break? what's all that about (though that did work quite well in the ending, I agree).

I think the game could have gut out quite a few hours and not lost much. It didn't really get going for me until you escape the Nibelheim reactor, and it was a bit too late for that.

 

[Valiance]

Baldur's Gate.
Icewind Dale.
Planesca-

Really?

If all you wanna do is go into a dungeon, grind levels, and not roleplay, play a roguelike.

 

[Koganesaga]

They both have their appeals, the westerns have a more europian influence in their level designs and tend to make their characters more tough and cool looking, even the female if you choose to. JRPGS have that old school charm as well as outlandish outfits that appeal and in some cases disgust at the same time. Of course after playing demon's souls, I have to give JRPG's an edge because I've been playing that game for a month now, still love it.

 

[Velocity Eleven]

I played Fallout 3: in response to the person who asked me if I have

I have refused to finnish several games because they forced me to do something I disagreed with.

really?... really?