My new MMO-obsession (Final Fantasy XIV)

CriticalGaming

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So Final Fantasy 14 sucked! Like a long time ago, 11 years-long-time-ago, holy hell it was the worst MMO to probably ever release. It sucked so bad that Square Enix literally let everyone play it for free, forever. Meanwhile behind the scenes they brought in a new game director who said, "Yeah this game is ass, we have to build a brand new mmo from the ground up because it is too shitty to patch."

And in one of the craziest business moves for a AAA-Publisher to make, Square actually said, "Yeah okay."

Thus they spend an amazingly short development cycle rebuilding the game, made the first version fucking explode, and released Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. And suddenly it was one of the best MMO's on the market where today I will be arguing that it is STILL the best MMO on the market.

I actually didn't play FF14 until well after that last expansion came out, Shadowbringers, which is the third expansion. I was getting bored with WoW and decided to try FF14 for shits and giggles. I liked the game a lot back then, I really did, however I couldn't stick with it because at the time I still had lingering attachments and friends in World of Warcraft so it just wasn't feasible to juggle two MMO's at the same time. So I bailed on FF14.

Now that FF14 has a Playstation 5 upgrade and i have a shiny new 4k monitor, and major releases have been dead this year....well I'm back to the grind.

So Final Fantasy 14 already gets a lot of points with me simply for being a Final Fantasy game. It features all the typical Final Fantasy things I expect from a game like amazing music, and giant chickens.

FF14 is also a pretty typical hotbar MMO, your abilities all appear on a hotbar and you gradually get more and more things to press as your character levels up. But what makes FF14 stand out over WoW is....everything....okay not everything, but the biggest stand out is that you actually don't level your character at all. Instead you level your character's job (aka class), and your character can learn to be every job in the game. While this means that you can literally do anything you need for a group on a single character, it's not technically getting rid of the alts because each job levels up on it's own so the jobs themselves act like alts even if you are on the same character. However there is an extra bonus to this in that, once you reach a high level with a job, you gain EXP bonuses on any other job that is lower level. Thus making leveling up other jobs much easier and faster and granting you more play options quickly.

Each job in 14 is crazy unique in terms of flavor. Every job has it's own mechanic that you are trying to use as well as dealing with whatever battle you are in. While WoW's class all technically have different abilities, they all break down to the same mechanics of: 1. Build resource. 2. Spend Resource. 3. Repeat. And there isn't really any variation. Meanwhile in FF14 every job fights in a drastically different way. Even if you are a damage dealer, the way that your job does that damage will be much different than another damage dealing job.

For example you can be a monk, which has a series of attacks that require the monk to move to different spots on the monster. Some attacks deal extra damage when dealt to the monster's sides, while other attacks deal more damage when directly behind the monster. This means that the monk is constantly having to dart around the monster in order to make sure each attack hits the correct spot to maximize damage. And by doing this correctly, they build up an attack speed buff making them attack faster and faster, but you loose this bonus if you fuck up.....or when the boss goes away to a new phase and it takes too long before you can hit something else again.

Compare the Monk to another melee damage dealer in the Ninja. The ninja does not give a shit about where he hits the monster, just hit him where ever it's fine. However the Ninja has to use Naruto hand signs to use it's special attacks. And there are three different hand signs which all set up different attacks. However you don't just hit the three signs, you actually have to memorize hand sign combos. For example the three handsigns are based of Air, Water, and Fire iirc, and to que up an attack you would use Air, then Water, then the special attack. And there are loads of combinations which all change the nature of that special attack. And if you fuck up you are locked out of using your special attack and new handsigns for a few seconds.

So while both of these jobs punch bad guys. They do so in very different play styles. And every Job in the game does that. Which all in all makes the combat in FF14 quite the standout in terms of MMOs.

Then there are jobs for crafting and gathering. And these aren't bullshit jobs like professions in other games. No, each of these jobs has a story, has their own gear progression, and a whole hot bar of abilities. And they don't fall off later on either. Crafters can make useful items even at max level, so none of the profession jobs become trivial at the end game.

Boss fights are super epic as well. The game uses a lot of mechanics to test player skill. Because the real challenge of the game comes not from learning how to do all of the Ninja's handsigns and super attacks, the challenge is to remember your rotation while also running around all over the place to dodge all the shit the boss is doing around you AND also somehow still trying to hit the fucker on top of that. And every fight is pretty unique. While some fights build on the same mechanic ideas, each fight will utilize the same mechanic in a slightly different way which always keeps you on your toes even if you think you've seen everything the game that throw at you.

Because of all these core gameplay foundations FF14 is easily the best MMO on the market right now. And you can play it for free! The free trial of the game gives you unlimited playtime through the base game AND the first expansion. Meaning you get like 600 hours of content for absolutely nothing.

There are some things I don't like though......which will be the next post because this is too long already.
 

CriticalGaming

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So the bad things about FF14.

While every class is unique in the way it plays. None of the classes do anything special or different enough that your group make-up matters. While this is fine on principle, as it lets you bring your friends to the group regardless of what job they play, it also means that there is a lack of combat and group strategy that high end players find enjoyable. It means you'll never have to say "oh John we would rather you bring your Paladin to this fight because Paladin's bring x,y,z to the group." And while this is great for casual play, something about it makes me feel like every job is the same shit with a different coat of paint.

My biggest negative about the game is the way the game handles gear. Gear is one of the most important things in an MMO-RPG because not only does it need to look cool, it also needs to offer your character something cool. WoW was the best in the industry at thing because there were item sets for each class in the major raids that changed the way the class played for that level of content. You would get a passive buff on your warrior that made your sunder armor never leave the target which meant you didn't have to spam that attack anymore and could instead do something that caused more damage which also meant your group killed the bosses faster. Things like that.

In FF14 the gear is just more numbers. That's it. The next higher item doesn't modify your job in anyway it's only there to make your number a little bigger. And sadly these days WoW has copied that model which is a big reason why raiding groups are less interested in WoW now.

I will say that the armor and gear does look exceptionally awesome in FF14 so that part of the gearing is great which makes the impact of the fact that the gear's purpose itself is boring a much softer blow, it's still something i noticed that was annoying. Especially considering how difficult some of the high end content becomes. It makes that content less rewarding because you know that the reward is just a slightly higher number, which you don't need if you are already killing the high end content.

Finally most of the FF14 players will rant and rave about how amazing the story is in this game. The main story that leads your character through each expansion is just so amazing or whatever. Frankly...I thought it was boring as fuck. It was a dumb story that made absolutely no sense even for a final fantasy game, and towards the end I just skipped the cutscenes because I didn't want to waste my time on the shit story. "Oh but it gets so good 500 hours in!" Nope, don't care fuck off.



All in all though, my complaints are fairly minor and I personally think that FF14 has easily risen above WoW as the best MMO available. Maybe Amazon's New Worlds will be good, but I highly doubt it. If you are looking for a new MMO, 14 is the way to go 100%.
 
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Finally most of the FF14 players will rant and rave about how amazing the story is in this game. The main story that leads your character through each expansion is just so amazing or whatever. Frankly...I thought it was boring as fuck. It was a dumb story that made absolutely no sense even for a final fantasy game, and towards the end I just skipped the cutscenes because I didn't want to waste my time on the shit story. "Oh but it gets so good 500 hours in!" Nope, don't care fuck off.
The mythical American attention span strikes again
 

meiam

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I played most of the way to max level after it was re launch and... yeah story is nothing special really. About as good WoW storyline. Actually I'd rank it slightly below because WoW for the most part treat you as one of many while FF14 continually try to insist that you are the special one. This gets hillarious when you have to go back to the same NPC all the time to turn in quest, you'll walk in this tiny room that's filled wall to wall with player of all level, including max level. You'll start a cutscene where you're alone with NPC and they'll go "Oh you're the only one we can ask this of" and then the cutscene stop and you go back to this room full of player and I couldn't help but think "what about all those other people?!".

The class thing never work with me, it's barely different than just creating an alt character. Most MMO these days have plenty of mechanic to let your alt character level up faster and the one in FF14 are necessary because you can't do quest multiple time so, without those, leveling a second class would be slower than creating an alt. And this mostly mean that leveling a second class just involve getting into these massive group that just run around and redo the same 5-10 dynamic quest for hours until they're high enough to move on to the next region, where they'll just repeat a new sets of dynamic quest. I also didn't really find class that unique, this really wasn't helped by lancer/dragoon class combo being 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3... for most of the leveling process, I really hope they changed that by now.

Crafting minigame was cool at first, but taking 30 sec+ to craft every single item you needed just made levelling painfully slow and ultimatly didn't change anything and just added an element of RNG to crafting, which is really not needed.

But really the nail in the coffin for me was 2.5 second global cooldown, WoW 1.5 sec was already agonizingly slow, moving to almost double was just brutal.

Overall it felt like a pretty good but bog standard MMO, aside from 2.5 sec CD (I'll never be able to understand that one), if I ever feel like doing MMO again I'd probably pick 14... and then quit after 2 week because the combat is sooooooo sloooooooooooooooooooooooow.
 
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09philj

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I love Final Fantasy XIV. I play it almost every day. I really love the story and characters and would let Grand Admiral Merlwyb step on me. A Realm Reborn and Stormblood (Basegame and expansion 2) are a bit wobbly in the plot department but Heavensward and Shadowbringers (Expansions 1 and 3) are fantastic. It's definitely not for everyone though, it is a long, long way to the current endgame for people who like that part of an MMO the most. There's also nothing quite like the terrifying ballet that is an FFXIV boss fight. The PVP is completely unpopulated, the economy's buggered, the last two dungeons in the base game are horrible, and nobody runs the Binding Coils of Bahamut, but otherwise you can jump into pretty much any content with a public group and have a reasonable experience. It's free up to level 60, so it's well worth giving a shot if you like Final Fantasy and would like to play a good Final Fantasy game.

But really the nail in the coffin for me was 2.5 second global cooldown, WoW 1.5 sec was already agonizingly slow, moving to almost double was just brutal.
The levelling experience at lower levels is often not great, particularly given how the last expansion radically changed the abilities of some classes. It all feels pretty slow, for the most part.
Then you get to about, ooh, level 60 or so, and realise you might need a third hand to correctly juggle all these OGCD skills you now have to weave in.
They had to nerf my class, Summoner, in the current endgame to stop people from getting carpal tunnel trying to get an optimal rotation.
 
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meiam

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The levelling experience at lower levels is often not great, particularly given how the last expansion radically changed the abilities of some classes. It all feels pretty slow, for the most part.
Then you get to about, ooh, level 60 or so, and realise you might need a third hand to correctly juggle all these OGCD skills you now have to weave in.
They had to nerf my class, Summoner, in the current endgame to stop people from getting carpal tunnel trying to get an optimal rotation.
They probably changed it since then but I almost reached max level with the archer upgraded class (I couldn't do it, last area had barely any quest and that meant just grinding the same couple of dynamic quest for way too long) and I found that I could easily macro most OGCD ability to other attacks and still maintain perfect rotation. I also had my "I'm feeling lazy" rotation with just 3 button I think and it would do about 90% of the damage.

I'm sure things evolved since then but I don't think I could endure leveling. Maybe if healing is more fun and you can reasonably reach max level by just doing group content?
 

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The mythical American attention span strikes again
I mean, if something takes 30 hours to get good, one can argue it's failing pretty hard in at least one department. Or as Yathzee onces said about FF13 "You realize that's not a selling point, right?"

Look, I understand and appreciate the Slow Burn, but stuff still needs to happen and be kinda interesting in the meantime to keep engagement going on some level. If it takes 30 hours to get interesting, Maybe you need to start your story 30 hours earlier, or at least cut down the lead in to the good stuff significantly.

I recently watched a summary of the ARR storyline and yeah, it gets interesting near the end, but up until then it's a lot of "Go here, do this, kill primal, repeat" that's boring as fuck.
 

Neuromancer

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WTF does that mean? I love story based games, and 14's story stinks in my opinion that's all. Attention span has nothing to do with it.
Do pray tell, what about the story makes "absolutely no sense"? I will definitely agree that ARR's story is tiresome at best; it has great pacing issues and is not very engaging. The stretch of story between the end of ARR and Heavensward is a wasteland of filler. But from start to finish, the story remains remarkably consistent. Especially the characters. WoW has a wild menagerie of characters that have entire games, books and in-game years worth of history and wastes them completely, forgetting their existence, bending their character traits and plain coming up with anything they can to keep the franchise going because they run out of ideas in Pandaria.

Across FFXIV's story, you meet a remarkable amount of characters and the large majority of them experience character growth and have their own motivations. And it's not just main characters either, minor characters also get their time in the spotlight, like for example Arenvald in the latest patch. Arenvald has been around since ARR, a minor character that wasn't so much involved in a quest until Stormblood. But still, depending on what quest you are on, when interacted with he would have things to say relevant to the part of the main story you are at. The writers have been committed to developing and setting up characters from the start. With the exception of perhaps three characters, FFXIV has, thus far, not wasted opportunities to put even its most minor characters in the spotlight when the situation calls for it, which is remarkable, considering how many of them they are.

The story itself is also consistent in terms of its worldbuilding and its internal world logic. Across hundreds of hours of storytelling across multiple expansions, it has been remarkably resistant to retconing. It has several wasted opportunities (Nanamo in Heavensward, Ala Mhigo across the entirety of Stormblood), but at no point do you get things established only for them to be forgotten about and changed to suit the current narrative (like WoW has been doing every single expansion since Pandaria.) The only example of such could be considered the Ascian's MO, but that's only in terms of what Lahabrea rambles about in the Praetorium, and that was vague enough that I can forgive it.

So, to go back to the point, how exactly does the story make no sense? Is it long? Fuck yes. Is it boring? Across large swathes of it, especially at the start, definitely. But is it consistent? Yes, it is.

And a word of warning: FFXIV is very much story-based. The majority of its content is story. You will not get much enjoyment out of it if you keep skipping cutscenes, especially when it takes great pains to keep everything connected, with continious references to past events in dialogue. A lot of things get set up hours (or expansions) earlier before you get to fully engage with them. Besides the story, all that you really have to do is weekly raids, roulettes and beast tribe quests. You will not enjoy the endgame if you don't have a stake in the story.

I mean, if something takes 30 hours to get good, one can argue it's failing pretty hard in at least one department. Or as Yathzee onces said about FF13 "You realize that's not a selling point, right?"

Look, I understand and appreciate the Slow Burn, but stuff still needs to happen and be kinda interesting in the meantime to keep engagement going on some level. If it takes 30 hours to get interesting, Maybe you need to start your story 30 hours earlier, or at least cut down the lead in to the good stuff significantly.

I recently watched a summary of the ARR storyline and yeah, it gets interesting near the end, but up until then it's a lot of "Go here, do this, kill primal, repeat" that's boring as fuck.
Like I said above, my issue is not finding the story thus far boring. When I recommend the game to friends, I do it warning them that they are in for a slow burn, and that they have to invest a good amount of hours in it before it gets good. Modern life is hectic, time is precious, and there's a fuckton of other games, books, movies and series to engage in. It is perfectly reasonable to not want to commit the time for it. I merely find that saying that the story makes no sense when the story very much makes sense to be a childish reaction borne from frustration. Its issue isn't its internal consistency, it's that it's a bloody drag and a half until it hits the gas.
 

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Played it on PS4, could never get the targeting to stop jumping to stuff across the map instead of what I was fighting. So it got dumped pretty quick. (Ironically, it was even worse when I tried KB/M to see if that was any better)
 

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The No Clip documentary on the game is absolutely amazing. Yoshi P pulled a miracle out of his ass with fixing this game and saved the Final Fantasy 7 Remake. I love this guy because he is one of the few game creators left that wear his passion on his sleeve.
Hope he’s also getting paid what he deserves, and suits have enough sense to let him do his thing from the onset going forward.
 
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laggyteabag

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I have a... strange relationship with MMOs.

I started playing World of Warcraft during Wrath of the Lich King, so around 2008, and I've been playing it on-and-off ever since.

The cycle goes that I want to play WoW, I play for maybe a month or two, I realise that the endgame feels more like a job, and less like a game, and I quit. Rinse and repeat at the start and end of every expansion.

Every now and again, a new MMO comes along, and I jump on that. I got into an MMO called Rift in about 2011, but didn't stick around for very long, and I've given Guild Wars 2 a few tries, over the years.

But when I play these new MMOs, I think to myself how I may as well just play WoW, and then im back in the loop of starting/quitting.

I just don't like how much these games feel like a job. If im not doing my dailies or my weeklies, I feel like im wasting my time. And in the case of WoW, if im not playing at all, I feel like im wasting my money.

And im more of a solo player. MMOs and their communities are great, but I don't really like to engage in them, so as a solo player, there is only so much you can do.

I wish I liked MMOs more than I do.
 
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BrawlMan

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I have a... strange relationship with MMOs.

I started playing World of Warcraft during Wrath of the Lich King, so around 2008, and I've been playing it on-and-off ever since.

The cycle goes that I want to play WoW, I play for maybe a month or two, I realise that the endgame feels more like a job, and less like a game, and I quit. Rinse and repeat at the start and end of every expansion.

Every now and again, a new MMO comes along, and I jump on that. I got into an MMO called Rift in about 2011, but didn't stick around for very long, and I've given Guild Wars 2 a few tries, over the years.

But when I play these new MMOs, I think to myself how I may as well just play WoW, and then im back in the loop of starting/quitting.

I just don't like how much these games feel like a job. If im not doing my dailies or my weeklies, I feel like im wasting my time. And in the case of WoW, if im not playing at all, I feel like im wasting my money.

And im more of a solo player. MMOs and their communities are great, but I don't really like to engage in them, so as a solo player, there is only so much you can do.

I wish I liked MMOs more than I do.
I never liked nor cared mushroom mmos. Not my place out. My mindset was always, I just want an actual game. The subscription stuff was a waste of time and money for me, and for good reason.
 
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I have a... strange relationship with MMOs.

I started playing World of Warcraft during Wrath of the Lich King, so around 2008, and I've been playing it on-and-off ever since.

The cycle goes that I want to play WoW, I play for maybe a month or two, I realise that the endgame feels more like a job, and less like a game, and I quit. Rinse and repeat at the start and end of every expansion.

Every now and again, a new MMO comes along, and I jump on that. I got into an MMO called Rift in about 2011, but didn't stick around for very long, and I've given Guild Wars 2 a few tries, over the years.

But when I play these new MMOs, I think to myself how I may as well just play WoW, and then im back in the loop of starting/quitting.

I just don't like how much these games feel like a job. If im not doing my dailies or my weeklies, I feel like im wasting my time. And in the case of WoW, if im not playing at all, I feel like im wasting my money.

And im more of a solo player. MMOs and their communities are great, but I don't really like to engage in them, so as a solo player, there is only so much you can do.

I wish I liked MMOs more than I do.
I'm much the same. Never played WoW but I played Everquest(Get off my lawn!) and City of Heros for like a month or so each and could never really get into either of them. It's mostly because it feels exceptionally grindy and if your mindset is geared towards SP(like I am), MMOs feel like they're focused on the wrong elements at the expense of plot, pacing and bloat. Not to mention the subscription nature practically demands you to log in on a recurring basis to justify your money, whereas even a $60/70/80 game is a one time cost that you play to the point you feel you're done with it over whatever time period you want. For some that might be hours, for others that might be years.

I've occasionally had people on the net try to convert me to FFXIV, or at least to do the ARR content and while it's rare(and nobody on this forum has done it), it's obnoxious when it does happen. What I've seen of it hasn't convinced me it's an MMO for people who aren't into MMOs and the "REALLY GOOD STORY" doesn't kick in until you're almost done with the ARR stuff(and then apparently jumps around in quality quite a bit). And considering a lot of it is seems to be recalling story beats from earlier FF games(which I own already), I could honestly just replay those games(not that they're perfect either) if i really wanted that nostalgia trip. Fuck, I've been looking for an excuse to replay FF9 if we're talking about a nostalgia bath.
 
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Piscian

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I quit playing MMOs back in the early days of Star Wars Galaxies when WoW became the only thing anyone would talk about. It just felt like all you do anymore is grind levels and gear without any interaction with the world itself or doing anything unique. Someone conned me into trying FFXIV recently and it felt pretty much the same. I picked a class and proceded to left mouse click for 12 levels doing the same time shit over and over. collect 10 whatever and go to guy and collect reward. The response I got was that
"oh it gets better at lv 35 and you can pay to just go that level".

Eeeh fthat. I've realized at this point, whatever the magic is that hides inside of the grind of FFXIV is lost on me.
 
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I quit playing MMOs back in the early days of Star Wars Galaxies when WoW became the only thing anyone would talk about. It just felt like all you do anymore is grind levels and gear without any interaction with the world itself or doing anything unique. Someone conned me into trying FFXIV recently and it felt pretty much the same. I picked a class and proceded to left mouse click for 12 levels doing the same time shit over and over. collect 10 whatever and go to guy and collect reward. The response I got was that
"oh it gets better at lv 35 and you can pay to just go that level".

Eeeh fthat. I've realized at this point, whatever the magic is that hides inside of the grind of FFXIV is lost on me.
Oh, one of the things that put me off about Wow is people talking about how a lot of the game is now about rushing to the Max level so you can do endgame stuff, which apparently when the game REALLY gets good.

Which basically makes it sound like everything before Max level isn't worth the effort, and especially if they're offering to let you buy skips and boosters to cut that part out of the game, which begs the question "Why should I spend more money to skip playing half the game when I can pay literally nothing and skip the entire game?"
 
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