Mythic Entertainment Drops the B-Word

Recommended Videos

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,908
0
0
Vault101 said:
Therumancer said:
mega snip
huh...yeah that..I guess

all I know is even though I am probably one of the more obsessed Mass Effect fans and Bioware apologists.....I just don't know how I'd feel about trying ME4

I don't want to care again and get punched in the face with great big "FUCK YOU FOR CARING DUMBASS!" like ME3 did to all of us (but tbh I probably would more out of curiosity than anything (where do they go from there?)

but that (and what you said) brings about the question of weather or not the creator is the absolute authority on a work...I think somtimes that shouldn't be the case..much like (in an article) saying geroge lucas didnt actually understand WHY people liked star wars

the ending of ME3 didn't understand WHY people liked Mass Effect (hint: its NOT for its similarities to 2001 space odesey)


I'd also say that defending the ending seems to be a minority opinion..that even the most hardcore of fans still defend the series [i/]in spite of[/i] the ending
Well, I'd pretty much agree that the creator is the absolute authority, but like most authority it can be mis-used and make the person doing it a douchbag. A douchebag can also realize they did something wrong and fix it, by insisting that they are right despite all evidence to the contrary they just become increasingly bigger douchebags.

The demand to change the ending of ME3 is sort of an acknowlegement of that abillity in the hands of the creators of the game, which is why it's up to them to change the ending, as opposed to say some fan fiction writer who simply comes up with a better one, even if everyone liked the fanfic better it wouldn't be the actual ending, that would have to come about in the actual game, the guys creating it have to be the ones that acknowlege it.

What your seeing in the case of ME3 is pure arrogance on the part of the creator and increasing levels of douchebaggery as they refuse to acknowlege the problem and fix it, despite people being nice enough to inform them of it. Nobody has seriously argued that the creators don't have the right to give this game that ending and keep it, just that it makes them jerks. Like most jerks and douchebags it influances whether people are going to be interested in their future work.

There is no way to force EA/Bioware to fix things, all you can do is refuse to patronize their works and hope they get a clue.

-

That aside, there are some seperate issues here, like who is "the creator" in cases like this, which I think is half the problem. A lot of the issues with the ME3 ending revolve around them deciding to not give the promised answers and resolution for marketing reasons to drag this out. There was a lot said about the ending in some "facts app" that got released, showing that what EA/Bioware was telling people about the plans for the game as it was being made and released, was not the same as what the team was actually doing while it was being made. A deliberate effort was made to not deliver the ending and answers people wanted and were told to expect.

In short, ME3 and it's ending was pretty much the work of a commitee of businessmen, even if a specific writer can be credited for various things, they were ultimatly being dictated to based not on the needs of the story and the integrity of the work, but what the bean counters thought would be the best direction to take in order to maximize profits.

I personally suspect EA didn't have the ending changed and the promises delivered on, due to the philsophy that "any publicity is good publicity". The people raging already paid them, leading to a massive payday. They probably figure the furor will turn into more sales with people buying the new game just to see what they did, much like you mentioned. That's why I refuse to buy it upon initial release, I'm not going to give them money anymore until I am sure of the quality of the product, which includes the writing, right down to the end. I encourage others to do the same thing.

At any rate, the "authority" of a creator is something that exists when it can be clearly tracked to one person. In cases where that isn't true, I think it's an increasingly touchy subject for reasons demonstrated by ME3. Any way that it goes, for something to be "official" it does have to be done by those who have the liscence and can produce the media.

When it comes to guys like George Lucas, as sad as it is to say, Star Wars was his to ruin. I think a lot of the problem is that as you said, he never really understood the appeal of his own work. I also think a lot of it is simply that he became seduced by the money and increasingly looked at things from a merchandizing perspective.

One thing I read a while back was about how when it comes to Star Wars the least popular aspects of the series with the fans, are the ones that made the most money. Stuffed Ewoks and Jar Jar merchandise and things like that sold stupidly well in products aimed at the very young, and were non-threatening enough to appeal to parents. Simply put, a gun toting Han Solo isn't the kind of thing your going to want to give your 3 year old, but an Ewok to snuggle up to is a possibility. Part of the merchandising genius of Star Wars is there was something there for everyone from really little kids, to teens and adults interested in the action and fantasy, the problem is those things don't entirely play well together, the cutesy elements don't really belond in a serious action movie. By forcing all of this together (and is's amazing how well it worked despite all of the hate) a crazy brand name was created which can produce a product for just about anyone. The extension of cutesy elements and inserting them into the older movies makes a degree of sense if it does happen to be true that things like the Ewoks outsold other kinds of products and merchandise, with more people actually spending the cash for that stuff for young children, than say more "serious" props and replicas and such for themselves.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,855
15
43
Therumancer said:
In short, ME3 and it's ending was pretty much the work of a commitee of businessmen, even if a specific writer can be credited for various things, they were ultimatly being dictated to based not on the needs of the story and the integrity of the work, but what the bean counters thought would be the best direction to take in order to maximize profits.
well I heard that it was "all Casey" from some EA guy himself (not himself obviously...an article) which makes it sound like it was

1.an abvious time/rescource constraint

2. somone who wanted to be "deep and arty" without the faintest Idea of what the fuck "deep and arty" is or why "deep and arty" as seen there is a terrible fucking Idea (sorry, there I go again)

also I'm not sure I agree on the second point...to me this does not seem like a profitable ending (I have not played the extended cut)...it doesnt leave it open for another installment because when you take what we saw literally (as I belive we must now) EVERYTHING IS FUCKED to put it lightly, the more you think bout it the more fucked it becomes

actually to be honest I would LOVE to play a mass effect 4 where shepard "un-fucks" the universe (like tracking down the normandy) oh god I would buy that game..that game would be awsome....but they said thats it for shepard...and so it still sucks

[quote/]I personally suspect EA didn't have the ending changed and the promises delivered on, due to the philsophy that "any publicity is good publicity".[/quote]
the infamous "speculation for everyone!" seems to suort that...not only from EA but hudson/whoever themselves

[quote/]At any rate, the "authority" of a creator is something that exists when it can be clearly tracked to one person. [/quote]
drew whats-his-name is the closest thing to that...however he left Bioware before ME3's release and I dont know how much of a hand he had in ME3 or even ME2
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,908
0
0
Vault101 said:
Therumancer said:
In short, ME3 and it's ending was pretty much the work of a commitee of businessmen, even if a specific writer can be credited for various things, they were ultimatly being dictated to based not on the needs of the story and the integrity of the work, but what the bean counters thought would be the best direction to take in order to maximize profits.
well I heard that it was "all Casey" from some EA guy himself (not himself obviously...an article) which makes it sound like it was

1.an abvious time/rescource constraint

2. somone who wanted to be "deep and arty" without the faintest Idea of what the fuck "deep and arty" is or why "deep and arty" as seen there is a terrible fucking Idea (sorry, there I go again)

also I'm not sure I agree on the second point...to me this does not seem like a profitable ending (I have not played the extended cut)...it doesnt leave it open for another installment because when you take what we saw literally (as I belive we must now) EVERYTHING IS FUCKED to put it lightly, the more you think bout it the more fucked it becomes

actually to be honest I would LOVE to play a mass effect 4 where shepard "un-fucks" the universe (like tracking down the normandy) oh god I would buy that game..that game would be awsome....but they said thats it for shepard...and so it still sucks

[quote/]I personally suspect EA didn't have the ending changed and the promises delivered on, due to the philsophy that "any publicity is good publicity".
the infamous "speculation for everyone!" seems to suort that...not only from EA but hudson/whoever themselves

[quote/]At any rate, the "authority" of a creator is something that exists when it can be clearly tracked to one person. [/quote]
drew whats-his-name is the closest thing to that...however he left Bioware before ME3's release and I dont know how much of a hand he had in ME3 or even ME2[/quote]


Well, the thing is that when you work within an established universe and mythology people expect consistincy. The ME3 ending could be seen as profit driven because if accepted it pretty much levels everything to the point where there arguably is no continuity, anything and everything done by Shepard or established in the game back story about civilizations and such is pretty much moot. Someone can drag out "Mass Effect" and have a Krogan or an Asari walking around and claim it's all the same universe, picking and choosing what elements to use, and going back to the cry of "OMG, there was an apocolypse, it destroyed everythiiing!" to prevent any possible inconsistincies.

Basically I think it was a marketing ploy to keep the Mass Effect brand name alive for the sales, without having to get a bunch of continuity experts to look everything over (at least for a while). They could use the brand name, some art and concept assets, and otherwise poop out whatever derivitive sci-fi property they wanted and call it Mass Effect.

It's sort of like how people complain about various series changing tons of stuff except for a few iconic bits, to the point where it might as well be a totally new IP, but the name is being used for recognition. Like what a lot of people complain about when they discuss what Bethesda did with "Fallout" for example. In this case though EA planned it out and pretty much wiped the slate clean in the continuity, so they could start anew and hopefully avoid that issue and keep their brand name.

I suspect the problem started when we were hearing that they wanted to turn Mass Effect into a franchise. Originally the storyline was supposed to be planned out as a trilogy, around the time of ME2 I started to hear the first serious comments about them wanting to keep this going on well beyond the triology, so instead of just tying everything up, they decided to leave it in the most empty, yet name-preserving shape they could.

I'm tired, sorry, I said the same thing a bunch of differant ways (more or less).
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

(Insert witty quote here)
Sep 10, 2008
3,777
0
0
Dexter111 said:
Ed130 said:
Don't worry, there is still BioWare Edmonton, BioWare Austin, BioWare Victory, BioWare Montreal, BioWare Ireland, and BioWare San Francisco still.
BioWare Ireland doesn't exist anymore, they dropped the name and "repurposed" it to general EA use back when Greg & Ray were fired: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/18/irish-bioware-support-center-for-swtor-converting-to-general-ea/

The "BioWare Victory" rename of Victory Games was entirely retarded as they have NOTHING whatsoever to do with them and I expect them to correct that at some point in the future too.

"BioWare Austin" had to lay off ~200 people back in May: http://twitter.com/georgeb3dr/status/205007250765520898 and I believe even more people lately after the failure of The Old Republic.
I knew Austin was taking it in the neck over TOR but I didn't realise that Ireland got renamed.
 

Azuaron

New member
Mar 17, 2010
621
0
0
WabbitTwacks said:
Let's forget about the reused dungeons and the ending that just proved that all mages are just abominations (why did I try to help them anyway? Not gonna trust a single mage in DA universe again).
I actually really liked the ending, and thought it followed naturally from established lore. Conceptually, DA mages aren't much different from male magic users in The Wheel of Time: they could snap at any moment and turn into psychotic monsters of destruction (parallels between "Tranquils" and "gentling", as well). In Dragon Age, there are ways to reduce the chances of snapping, and that's why the magic circles exist and are overseen by the Templars.*

And the mages know this. That's why in Origins, after you save the magic circle and the Templars are still debating whether to invoke the Annulment, the mage leader doesn't strongly object. As a mage, he knows better than anyone how out of control abominations can get, so his position is basically, "I'm not possessed, but do what you believe will protect people."

Personally, I think part of the point of DAII was to show players how dangerous mages really are in the Dragon Age universe, how much of a knife's edge they walk, because a lot of players didn't really get it. The Templars aren't fantasy Nazis, oppressing innocent people because they disagree with their beliefs. The Templars are a necessary bulwark that protects everyone from the chaos that abominations (or even just criminal mages) can inflict.

Add to that the fact that it was mages who corrupted the Creator's city, thus causing the Darkspawn and the Blights, and I'm surprised more mages aren't treated like they are in Kirkwall. I mean, they shouldn't be; I think the Fereldan way of doing things struck a pretty good balance between freedom and safety (up until the revolutionists staged a coup), but it's understandable that the Kirkwall Templars acted how they did, particularly as more and more mages became possessed by demons.

*Sure, Morrigan was never possessed, but for every one wild mage in control like her, you kill twenty abominations in the wilds.
 

Thoric485

New member
Aug 17, 2008
632
0
0
I think it's safe to say BioWare won't be an EA division much longer.

Which could be for the best if they're just folded into EA Games and given freedom to do their own thing without the RPG/MMO AAA+ titan megalomania.