Nanny Nations

[Laxman9292]

Let me start off by saying that i am American so in light of the current fad of reform in my country i was thinking about the original concept of Individualism. In my opinion i think that an increased government would lead to a more secure place but undermine the peoples freedom, essentially turning the government into a big nanny for the people. What does the enlightened community of The Escapist think? especially those from countries around the world in which the government is taking more responsibility over the people.

 

[The Magical Hobo]

You don't have any real freedom.

To say the truth I'm more or less fine with current Canadian government, which I assume would constitute for a "nanny" in your eyes due to the whole health care thing.

I disagree, in that Harper pisses me right the fuck off. That said, I'm an NDP supporter for the most part, so I dont have to worry about my party being elected and fucking everything up.

 

[fulano]

Let me start off by saying that i am American so in light of the current fad of reform in my country i was thinking about the original concept of Individualism. In my opinion i think that an increased government would lead to a more secure place but undermine the peoples freedom, essentially turning the government into a big nanny for the people. What does the enlightened community of The Escapist think? especially those from countries around the world in which the government is taking more responsibility over the people.

Isn't coming here and asking other entities for their oppinions an attempt against your own individualism?

What do you think individualism means, anyway?

 

[Necrofudge]

The government hasn't been giving anyone freedoms for years. At least with this supposed "reform" we are at least exposing it. It won't fix things, but it will lead the way to someone finally doing something productive with the system.

 

[JRslinger]

The nanny state is very dangerous to freedom. The various types of nanny staters are attacking freedom with agendas of: punishingly heavy taxes, the war on drugs, gun control, "hate speech laws(anything offensive to certain groups)", the war on obesity, trying to ban violent video games, government controlled health care...

All of them are well intentioned, but are not good ideas. I don't know if the nanny staters realize the end result will not be a utopia. It will be a population that marched willingly into enslavement thinking it's for their own good. Many people will throw their freedom away if some do-gooders tell them "It's for the greater good of society" Freedom isn't the easiest thing. It means you have to take responsibility for your life. Some people would rather not grow up and foolishly let the government be their parent and make their choices for them.

 

[joystickjunki3]

Fuck government control of personal freedoms. That is all.

 

[The Magical Hobo]

You don't have any real freedom.

To say the truth I'm more or less fine with current Canadian government, which I assume would constitute for a "nanny" in your eyes due to the whole health care thing.

I disagree, in that Harper pisses me right the fuck off. That said, I'm an NDP supporter for the most part, so I dont have to worry about my party being elected and fucking everything up.

Eh, I'm still a non-voter for another 3 or so months, but I'd say that I'm not terribly impressed with any of the current parties. I like some of the things liberals promoted and I like some of the things NDP promoted.

But I can't say I'm a big fan of either parties, and even less of a fan of other parties especially including conservatives. Meh.

I bet another re-election is coming -_-

Not for at least a couple months though, Harper managed to appease the NDP and Bloc last week, that said I would support a coalition government, even if it is the Liberals leading a band of socialists and seperatists

 

[The Magical Hobo]

Fuck government control of personal freedoms. That is all.

Right, because beliefs like that totally didn't cause the current recession

 

[joystickjunki3]

Fuck government control of personal freedoms. That is all.

Right, because beliefs like that totally didn't cause the current recession

LOL WUT

I said personal freedoms, not "fuck deregulation of banks and shit." Fuckin' Jimmy Carter.

 

[Skeleon]

Well, I don't want authoritarian systems, but we need a state that can influence and judge corporations.
Let's just say that I find the current situation in the USA lacking in regulation.
Also, the whole system you got over there is a bit wacky with politicians suckling on the monetary teat of major companies.
But what do I know? I'm a European socialist/communist/Nazi/fascist/liberal.

 

[The Magical Hobo]

To say the truth, I still fail to understand what the Blocs are even doing here. Aren't they a bit too "specialized", considering how most of their interests lie in one single province?

But yeah. Hey, maybe I'll get to vote by then if the re-election comes... again.

The Bloc are there so that Quebec will ***** alot less

Fuck government control of personal freedoms. That is all.

Right, because beliefs like that totally didn't cause the current recession

LOL WUT

I said personal freedoms, not "fuck deregulation of banks and shit." Fuckin' Jimmy Carter.

They're not as different as you seem to think, you cant restrict the freedoms of companies without restricting the freedoms of people who use their services

 

[joystickjunki3]

They're not as different as you seem to think, you cant restrict the freedoms of companies without restricting the freedoms of people who use their services

The two aren't mutually exclusive or inclusive. They go hand-in-hand only to a point. Convincing yourself otherwise is utter bullshit. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. Feel free to elaborate. I'll be happy to entertain your ideas and debate the issue.

 

[The Magical Hobo]

They're not as different as you seem to think, you cant restrict the freedoms of companies without restricting the freedoms of people who use their services

The two aren't mutually exclusive or inclusive. They go hand-in-hand only to a point. Convincing yourself otherwise is utter bullshit. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. Feel free to elaborate. I'll be happy to entertain your ideas and debate the issue.

Normally I would oblige as I always love a good debate, however I do have school in the morning, so I should get some sleep. Basically though, you can't have both freedom and equality on any given issue eg.) you can't give people absolute freedom of expression without risking the safety of others. But all in all, no matter what decision a government makes, there will be large group saying that they should've made another choice, but if they don't do anything, people ***** about that. Pretty much politics is lose/lose in terms of making everybody happy, unless said politician doesnt give a damn about their constituents

 

[joystickjunki3]

They're not as different as you seem to think, you cant restrict the freedoms of companies without restricting the freedoms of people who use their services

The two aren't mutually exclusive or inclusive. They go hand-in-hand only to a point. Convincing yourself otherwise is utter bullshit. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. Feel free to elaborate. I'll be happy to entertain your ideas and debate the issue.

Normally I would oblige as I always love a good debate, however I do have school in the morning, so I should get some sleep. Basically though, you can't have both freedom and equality on any given issue eg.) you can't give people absolute freedom of expression without risking the safety of others. But all in all, no matter what decision a government makes, there will be large group saying that they should've made another choice, but if they don't do anything, people ***** about that. Pretty much politics is lose/lose in terms of making everybody happy, unless said politician doesnt give a damn about their constituents

Fair enough. But I don't give a shit about equality. It isn't fair. I care about equity, so the more freedoms, the better. If you care to debate after school tomorrow, then feel free to contact/quote and I'll respond (albeit briefly bcuz tomorrow is Friday and that means spending cash on alcohol).

 

[Valiance]

We're already in the USSA.

 

[bluepilot]

The nanny state needs to be stopped and needs to be stopped now.

The Government should be there to collect taxes, run services and get involved in the international political community.

The government should not be interfering in our daily lives, trying to control what we do, what we eat, what we smoke e.t.c.

We should have the freedom to make a choice, this does include however the freedom to go to prison when we make a wrong one

The government`s `nanny state` to prevent bad things from happening is as effective as King Canut`s aqautic control policies.

 

[Laxman9292]

Let me start off by saying that i am American so in light of the current fad of reform in my country i was thinking about the original concept of Individualism. In my opinion i think that an increased government would lead to a more secure place but undermine the peoples freedom, essentially turning the government into a big nanny for the people. What does the enlightened community of The Escapist think? especially those from countries around the world in which the government is taking more responsibility over the people.

Isn't coming here and asking other entities for their oppinions an attempt against your own individualism?

What do you think individualism means, anyway?

Not in my mind. im just soliciting opinions. If i agree with those opinions or not is how i maintain my individualism. and to me that means that people have the right to do whatever they want within reason without government restraints. especially in economy. as long as it doesnt violate basic natural rights.

 

[Laxman9292]

The nanny state is very dangerous to freedom. The various types of nanny staters are attacking freedom with agendas of: punishingly heavy taxes, the war on drugs, gun control, "hate speech laws(anything offensive to certain groups)", the war on obesity, trying to ban violent video games, government controlled health care...

All of them are well intentioned, but are not good ideas. I don't know if the nanny staters realize the end result will not be a utopia. It will be a population that marched willingly into enslavement thinking it's for their own good. Many people will throw their freedom away if some do-gooders tell them "It's for the greater good of society" Freedom isn't the easiest thing. It means you have to take responsibility for your life. Some people would rather not grow up and foolishly let the government be their parent and make their choices for them.

Exactly! I do not know if it is just me but there is something unnatural and evil about that. It turns the people into something less than a human being, where people have no initiative and their actions are based off of what little the government says they can do as opposed to doing something of their own volition. The government is made of people just like you and me, do you think that they have any better idea what is good for you than you do? Just because they were elected does not ensure that they are making the best decisions, especially if those decisions restrict your freedom to be an individual and do anything you want (barring a violation of someone's basic natural rights).

 

[Laxman9292]

Fuck government control of personal freedoms. That is all.

Right, because beliefs like that totally didn't cause the current recession

Ok then, how did the recession come about?

 

[Laxman9292]

The nanny state is very dangerous to freedom. The various types of nanny staters are attacking freedom with agendas of: punishingly heavy taxes, the war on drugs, gun control, "hate speech laws(anything offensive to certain groups)", the war on obesity, trying to ban violent video games, government controlled health care...

All of them are well intentioned, but are not good ideas. I don't know if the nanny staters realize the end result will not be a utopia. It will be a population that marched willingly into enslavement thinking it's for their own good. Many people will throw their freedom away if some do-gooders tell them "It's for the greater good of society" Freedom isn't the easiest thing. It means you have to take responsibility for your life. Some people would rather not grow up and foolishly let the government be their parent and make their choices for them.

We already don't have freedoms.

Government control is not necessarily bad, lack of it will certainly not have any greater benefits. Now I agree that everything you do to your body should be your own choice as long as it doesn't seriously harm others - and in that case, whatever the legal punishment is, you'd be taking it... However, seeing how most drugs are banned in the majority of countries, we already lack that freedom.

And I don't see what kind of a problem you could have with government controlled health care. Government at least more or less needs the people... the companies will most likely care solely about money. Private insurers will make sure to pull out the most money out of you - and hey, nobody is stopping you from getting better insurance if you have the money. But a lot of people might not have the money, and them being legal citizens I'd say they should get medical help if they need it.

In my opinion, taxes and governmental controlled industries bring more good then harm. You can blame other groups for things like war on drugs - the people aren't always innocent.

But whatever, you're entitled to your opinion as much as I am. Good night, and lets hope this thread won't turn into a flamewar.

It is true that some control is required but as far as health care is concerned I do not believe it should be a function of the government to ensure universal coverage. as far as im concerned a government should protect the basic rights of people: life, liberty, and property (Locke had it right that property protection is a fundamental freedom). As long as those functions are protected then the government has done its job and it is up to the citizens to take initiative and fill in the gaps. And that is where being a nanny government cuts into peoples freedom to secure their own futures.