Naruto tropes flipped on their head: Does that make it better? Does that redeem its bad reputation?

[jamail77]

SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY

I stopped watching Naruto after a while for the obvious reasons. Back in middle school, a friend convinced me to see/read it despite knowing how against seeing/reading it I was. This is the same friend who would later convince me to try RuneScape (shudder) so go figure.

However, one day I started catching up on the manga again, roughly two years ago I think. At the same time and as I got farther along in getting catched up, my roommate at school at the time told me how it was getting better. His excuses were pretty bad. Ex. "Naruto is actually working with the Kyuubi now!" The main reason for this not being all that great is the Kyuubi or Kurama as we now know was portrayed as being pretty irrefutably evil. Yeah, the series slowly geared us towards possible manipulation of him and less malevolence as result but it never swayed so drastically as to suggest he's just got some beefs with some things like it does now. That could have been handled a little better but it was getting somewhat more believable (not really). So, I was skeptical on improvement after so much bore.

With Sasuke having joined the battlefield seemingly cured of a lot of his angst and even audaciously declaring his desire to be Hokage, Masashi Kishimoto really seems to have flipped things on their head. Sasuke, of course, was handled much better in this regard; it was always clear the stuff he was doing as a rogue made no sense whatsoever to anyone. That's why everyone hated him. Kishimoto seems to really enjoy doing this especially of lately. Even Orichimaru is like "Fuck this shit: I lost the use of my arms and then sort of but not really died twice". These tend to be hits and misses though more commonly reach a limbo of whether they work or not often being decided by mass opinion. Sakura goes back and forth at least three times in the series so she's more of a frustration than a good or bad though often judged to be a miss.
1. Cut hair. Decides to actually try fighting her hardest instead of sit on the sidelines.
2. Sasuke Retrieval Arc uselessness
3. Offscreen (T_T) training by Tsunade
4. Gets surpassed by crazy power increase introduction
5. Pulls a sort of Orichimaru and says "Fuck not doing shit AGAIN, I'm battling too"

While pre-timeskip/Part 1 really was focused on self-improvement and beating the odds towards silly, dismissed ideals post-timeskip/Part 2 got a little more into adapting that into the harshness of reality by looking at changing things optimistically. So, has Naruto gotten better? Have any of these reversals surprised anyone?

 

[Yuuki]

Hmmm? I think I kept up with the manga around 10 chapters into the final war (or w/e it's called) against Obito/Madara.

And then I realized that I was half-asleep through most of the chapters and not even reading anything that anyone was saying, because the same shit was pretty much getting endlessly repeated and the lines felt completely interchangeable.

Then I completely stopped giving a fuck because despite this arc being the climax of the entire series (according to Kishimoto anyway), this is ironically is the most mercilessly dragged-out arc I have ever read. Jesus H christ, it just refuses to END.

That was quite a while back. Yesterday I had a peek thinking that perhaps it's all finished and I can just skip to the last 1-2 chapters to see what it all came down to, only to find that they're now fighting some grotesque new monstrosity called Juubi (10 tails, yay?) and IT'S STILL GOING OMFG. Literally fuck-all happens in each chapter, literally nothing of value.

Frankly I reckon everything went downhill after Jiraiya died, the last person in the series I actually cared for because everyone else was a 2-dimensional twat compared to him. Before his death Naruto was at least somewhat on the same level as his peers, we could still get a sense of comparison as following just a really determined guy who had his own strengths and weaknesses.
But after Jiraiya's death literally no time we see Naruto's power level ROCKET out of control and I believe now we're at the point where Naruto has the power equivalent of 5 fucking Hokage. No, seriously, literally every character is either waiting on Naruto to charge up an attack, waiting for Naruto to recover or waiting for Naruto to say/do something.

I just couldn't take the series seriously after Naruto went from average annoying orange ninja to basically GOD.

A good anime/manga is like a good book, or a good rollercoaster ride - you can only realize it's epicness after it ENDS and then forever cherish the memory of that anime as a classic. All anime in the Big 3 (Naruto, Bleach, One Piece) reached a point where they completely became stale and left a bad taste in my mouth, and now if you tell me to recite my top 10 anime/manga I'll do everything in my power to avoid mentioning any of the Big 3. So many newer anime/manga (or classic ones that have ended) are 1000x more enjoyable and engaging with vastly better production qualities to boot, since they haven't had to chug out a new episode every damn week for years.

 

[jamail77]

You make great points and I certainly don't want to jump on the sporadic "Look, it's good again! Oh, wait. Never mind" bandwagon. I'll address what I can.

I know the feeling of half-sleepiness but it's honestly gotten better in some areas if not all; then again, I kind of waste my time and Naruto is good for procrastinating so maybe I excuse it a little too much. They definitely beat things over the head without going deeper. Kishimoto really struggled with Pain, he really tried to get a good message across but he didn't describe it well which actually I think is kind of common in a lot of manga/anime.

I wouldn't describe everyone as 2 dimensional. Sakura and Lee had potential that kind of just get forgotten about as the story goes on to bigger things then randomly come in again without enough development. On the other hand, Naruto's incredible power increase while very rapid was displayed somewhat intensely. It wasn't good enough to make up for the development or fairness distribution. Still, the Rasenshuriken training with Kakashi and the many clones as Sai and Sakura watch on showed some real effort, at least in the anime (I stopped watching the anime soon after this). There was intensity shown when Naruto battled his inner demons too as part of his training, literally (Jinchūriki problems) and metaphorically (himself). I like to think Sasuke is going somewhere right now with his sudden face heel turn but it feels too cop-outty. I wouldn't say; they've been gearing up for it but not well enough.

The original 4 Hokage have been revived. Naruto isn't shown to be equal to them. He's actually dismissed a little bit especially when his dad comes in, redirects the Ten Tails attack, and goes all sage mode. Lee, Kakashi, Gai have all made really important critical attacks on the enemy equal to what Naruto would have done if he could and thus helped him out tremendously. Shikamaru's strategy compensation is being ignored a little but still shown. Finally, Sasuke has joined the fray and Team 7 is reunited. The way Team 7 is displayed hints at a somewhat relative close level. So, if Naruto is at the level of an above average Kage then Sasuke is equal to that. Sakura while lower than that level is still very up there. They're all in another league from many on the battlefield even if not as close as to each other as we'd like. That's 7 characters, maybe 6 since Lee was largely ignored after Gaara and is just getting spotlight, who are comparable because they show some potential of being in a higher league than many other people, whether they're above their own comrades or just plain other high-level ninja on the battlefield.

 

[Wraith]

I haven't read or watched Naruto in years, the only info I get from it are little snippets on new powers characters get on VS forums, stuff my friends tell me, or pictures that friends post on Facebook. I stopped caring for the show after the Naruto VS Sasuke fight in part 1. With each new thing I hear about I get angrier and angrier at the show. Itachi my favorite character) comes back to life, only to die again soon after. Some crazy Sasuke fangirl turns out to be Naruto long lost cousin. Orochimaru (ONE OF THE MOST BADASS AND EVILEST CHARACTERS IN THE FUCKING SHOW) decides he wants to fight for the village he didn't give a shit about because his boytoy wants to and said boytoy who didn't care for his home village before now wants to protect it? It just sounds like bad fan-fic, man.

 

[Kolby Jack]

I keep up with plot developments on the wiki. I'm certainly enjoying the direction things are going, and let me just say if a "Naruto Kai" ever gets made, I will be the first in line for it. But until then, I'm not slogging through all that.

 

[soren7550]

Eh, I haven't really been liking how Naruto's been going since roughly around when the Shinobi War Arc started, moreso when they threw in Madara.

Hey, this jutsu brings you back to life as you were when you died! Except for Madara, he comes back in his prime rather than as a withered old man for whatever reason.

Orochimaru is still dead. Wait, no he was able to be brought back for whatever arbitrary reason.

The previous Hokages can't be brought back because they've been sealed! Oh wait, there's a really deus ex machina bullshit thing that can bring them back too that came from butt fuck nowhere.

Orochimaru and Sasuke hate Konoha and made it their mission to destroy the land and its people! Wait, they want to save them all now?

You need all nine tailed beasts to revive the ten tails! Only got seven an a smidge of the other two? Good enough, bring in the Ten Tails.

Naruto and Hinata finally kinda get together! But when asked, Naruto says that Sakura's his girlfriend... while Hinata's standing right there.

Crap like that.

 

[mooncalf]

Anything more than 24-or-so episodes and I find it seriously hard to invest.
I slogged my way through all the seasons of Rurouni Kenshin because hey I liked it, but I started One Piece, not bad, started Bleach, not bad, started Fairy Tail, Inuyasha and Naruto, all not *bad* and yet?
Just not good enough to excuse the amount of sheer meandering that goes on where you're watching episode "I don't know what" and we've been fighting the same mini-boss arc for "how many now?" and it just feels like a hamster wheel of character development that goes nowhere and can only be watched for so long without forgetting what was so interesting about it in the first place.

Y'know what I'd really like? For such shows to end - wait for it - and for some enterprising fan to edit it all down to a few action-packed seasons. Those I'd enjoy I'm sure!

 

[knight steel]

<-------Number one Naruto fanboy
*SQUEE*OMGILOVENARUTOSOMUCHITISMYFAVOURITEMANGAANDDISPITEOFALLIT'SPROBLEMSITISTILLTHINKIT'STHEBESTTHINGEVERIT'SOMUCHFUNANDILOVETHECHARACTERANDTHEBATTLESANDTHEWORLD *SQUEE*

*COUGH* Umm well I guess you could say I'm a fan,and really while I'll agree that part One was better I still love Shippuden as while it has more flaws it still adds a lot of great thing's ^_^.

Yeah I can understand while people don't like it-it cliche-shouen sterotypes with asspulls and stuff but It's messages helped pull me out of a dark part of my life-the battles entertain me-I love the world and can relate to the character plus the story keeps me hooked so despite all it's flaws it will always be in my heart

As for the recent chapter:*SQUEE*OMGTHEJUUBIBEENSEALEDANDTEAMSEVENISBACKAFTERALLTHISTIMEANDMINATOCANGOKYUBIMODEANDSASUKEISSOBADASSLOLATMADARAANDHASHIIPAIRTHEMASAYAOICOUPLE *SQUEE*

 

[xPixelatedx]

See, when Kyuubi is sealed he is trapped within a very small prison within the body. He cannot do anything nor move much. He's been in the hosts for generations... crap yeah he's going to hate every human being and want to go on a rampage. However, Naruto is the ONLY guy who's treated the 9 tails fairly and grew fond of the beast. That is why Kyuubi eventually opens up to Naruto. Still, the pace could of been slower and more realistic. Oh well.

The whole "Kyuubi just being Misunderstood" thing pissed me off to. Yeah... NO

No
No
No
No

This thing freaking eats people of it's own accord; EATS PEOPLE! You can't show a picture of it in a flashback as a little cub(?) crying, and then expect us to believe it was a decent guy this whole time. It's tried to kill Naruto's friends on several occasions when in control of Naruto's body, and NO ONE was controlling it. It made those choices, evil choices. There was nothing leading up to it's change of heart, and no evidence in the entire series to suggest it might have had more depth then 'monster'.

I think the writers just wrote themselves into a corner and changed the Kyuubi because they honestly couldn't think of anything else. Naruto had to control it at some point, but they obviously had no idea how to write that part of the story with the genuine Kyuubi, so they made another one that Naruto could be "buds" with. The alternative would have been far too complex and well beyond their abilities.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I stopped reading a decent way in, after Nagato at the least, but I started realising the characters could be summed up in about a sentence and I didn't really like the art style either. So that's that. It's like "Powerful, but insecure for no reason, with a sword shaped like a fish", and it comes across in every fucking dialogue of whatever character it may be. Sorry, bit off-topic.

 

[Akimoto]

With Sasuke having joined the battlefield seemingly cured of a lot of his angst and even audaciously declaring his desire to be Hokage

This surprised me, considering I wanted to see him die. Sakura being relegated as a side character surprised me too, but the four Hokages coming out to help as a deus ex machina did not. Orochimaru is getting to be a bit old now after the surprise comeback from Kabuto.

I still read it. Does that surprise me? I have no idea.

 

[Karthak]

4. When I heard that Naruto already fought the Nine Tail Fox inside his body (somehow) and won like it was nothing, I pretty much gave up all hope on the show. I mean come on, that damn fox is the source of his power! It's the only reason why he's relevant as a character. That kind of battle should have been saved for the very last episode. It coud have been built up beautifully! Naruto, with everything he has learned over the years, with all the things he has experienced, is now facing the very monster that has been inside him since his birth, now released and ready to cause chaos once more. That shit could have been epic but instead, it was treated as just another filler...WHY!?

It wasn't a battle. Naruto and the fox came to an understanding. I at least thought it was pretty well done.

 

[knight steel]

Now then to contribute more as for people complaining about Kurama/Sasuke/Sakura just put yourself in their shoes:

1:The kyuubi/Kurama action while wrong are understandable,now I want you to imagine right now a group of men are bursting into your room right now,they punch you and beat you and drag you off, you awake in a cramped cell where you are constantly insulted and made into something that not even human now Imagine that they drag you out of your cell and force you to kill innocent's and this continues over and over are you telling me that you wouldn't go on a rampage when you broke free?

2: Your most significant other murder your family when you're just a kid and you are forced via recording the watch it over and over again then when you get revenge you are told that it was all done because the government forced your brother to do it only then to be told that your govt had no choice because your family was going to do a terrorist attack that would kill millions and that your actions are just the same after all of that are you telling me you wouldn't be a confused mess jumping from point to point.

3:Yeah Saura sucks NaruHina for the win >_<

 

[God's Clown]

I don't really think Naruto has ever been good or bad. It's been decidedly "eh... its okay?" it's whole life. It's better than some manga, it's worse than some manga.

 

[DementedSheep]

I stopped reading Naruto after Nagato and I was never a big fan but enemies having changes of heart (usually after Nuruto "understands" them through some shared experience) seemed pretty common to me so its not surprising the Kyuubi and Sasuke especially are getting the sames treatment.

 

[excalipoor]

I'm genuinely worried that Kishimoto is going to hand the title of Hokage to Sasuke. The series has so many parallels between characters (most notably Hashirama/Madara and Naruto/Sasuke), and Madara would have been Hokage if it wasn't for the people. Everything goes in circles, and those circles are obviously going to be broken by the end. Sasuke as Hokage, however, makes absolutely no fucking sense. Also, I hate that prick. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to redeem him is to have him sacrifice himself, and then give Naruto his eyes before he dies so that Naruto has both Senju and Uchiha in him.

Kishimoto isn't great when it comes to dialogue and characterization, but some of his foreshadowing is just genius. I recently read a theory [http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=331340] about a connection between Sakura and Hashirama, hinting that Sakura might awaken Sage Mode before the current fight is over. If all of this turns out to be true, then everything is forgiven.

I've loved and hated Sakura since the beginning. I hate her abusive relationship with Sasuke, I hate her ability to bawl in any given situation, and I hate how she never gets to do anything, despite having Tsunade-level strength. Like the rest of the Naruto ladies, she's been relegated to the kitchen (medics, sensors, support...). Mostly I hated her when she came up to Naruto and proclaimed her "love". You don't fucking do that shit!

On the other hand, her fight with Sasori was flippin' sweet.

I don't think anyone would deny that Naruto has been going on far too long. I originally read Part 1 of the manga, then watched the anime up to the fillers, but lost interest by the time Shippuuden started. Earlier this year somebody called me a fanboy in a Youtube comment after defending the series, so I figured I might as well catch up. So I did, manga and anime both. I suppose it's a guilty pleasure for me. While I can't stand some of the characters (the protagonist amongst them), some of them I genuinely love (Shikamaru is a boss). I also love the way Kishimoto borrows from folklore.

Naruto is brilliant and stupid all at the same time, but even when at its dumbest, it's dumb in a way that makes me go WEEEEE! Now if it would just end so I could look back and say: "Yeah, that happened."

But after Jiraiya's death literally no time we see Naruto's power level ROCKET out of control and I believe now we're at the point where Naruto has the power equivalent of 5 fucking Hokage.

Not anymore! Apparently, Minato can use Kyuubi Mode too, in addition to being superior to Naruto in every other way as well. Hashirama has been hyped to hell and back too, so I doubt he's going to be a slouch. Tobirama has to be up there too, and...I wish I could say the same about Sarutobi, but who knows. I guess he should technically be the strongest of them now that stamina isn't an issue?

This is among the biggest of the beefs I have with the show: Part 1 was about new generations surpassing the last, Part 2 has these old dead guys coming back and kicking everybody's asses. In the same vein, Naruto in Part 1 was all about breaking the mold (zero to hero!), and then we learn that actually he was the son of one of the greatest Shinobi to ever live. Not only that, but everything he does he does with Kurama's help. Except for Sage Mode, which was awesome but short lived. Seriously, it was almost as cool as Super Saiyan, unlike the Super Saiyan ripoff we have now.

The whole "Kyuubi just being Misunderstood" thing pissed me off to. Yeah...

Not misunderstood, he just hates people as much as they hate him. People keep him locked up to use as a weapon, so yeah, he likes to get a little payback every chance he gets.

 

[Avalanche91]

It's 'Ok'.

There are a lot of things wrong with the serie (the Obito reveal being the least surprising twist in the history of twist, Madara and the Sharingan being walking plotdevices, Sasuke as a character, Sakura who keeps getting pushed backstage, Naruto's crazy powerlevels, Neji's pretty pointless death, the whole thing with Hinata.)

But I like a lot of the characters and I'll continue reading it.

I really just want to see the series end in a dignified way before it starts running on fumes like Bleach.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

3:Yeah Saura sucks NaruHina for the win >_<

What a shock. A Naruto thread and I find you here. ;-)

I just want Sasuke to go away now. Just...just leave. I'm so done with his character after his big announcement. This is a boy who doesn't understand who he is, what he wants, the concepts behind loyalty, ideals, friendship, enemies, family, leadership, being your own person. None of it. All it takes for someone to use Sasuke is to spout their ideals at him for half an hour and suddenly he's completely aligned with him. Just go sit in a corner, Sasuke. You don't even deserve to be killed off anymore.

As for what's currently happening, I'm actually finding the anime more interesting than the manga at the moment. The anime seems to have finally been allowed to cut loose and go wild with storytelling. Having episodes that aren't about Naruto, but instead about other shinobi and how they fight and their lives, is actually much more interesting to me. Having Hayate come back and getting to speak with his girlfriend one last time was something I really liked, because both those characters just disappeared after the Chunin exam, even though they seemed rather important.

Has it gotten better? Hm...I don't really know. The action has been ramped up, and for a while I was liking it. Now though, it's getting a little unbelievable. Gods of the ninja world have all gathered on the same battlefield, and let's be honest here: Madara should not stand a chance. The First Hokage defeated him by himself. With the Second, Third, and Fourth there as well now, Madara should be toast, but we know that won't happen. I was very, VERY excited when Naruto finally acknowledged Hinata and there were some serious hints that they we going to get together, but Naruto's latest statement about Sakura pretty much destroyed that. I really wanted her to go over and slap him at that point.