National ID Cards

[zirnitra]

Well. For those who do not know. here in the UK the government is opting to force us into replacing our Passports/driving licenses for ID cards containing are iris scans, fingerprints, national security, place of birth, ethnicity, DOB etc etc and making us pay £93 pounds for the privilege of becoming a number in a database. Britain's first major step to the Britain of of 1984. I quite evidently have negative view on this, how do people from other countries see this and what's the rest of the British public's opinion on it?

 

[Xvito]

Thats just sick...
Revolution!!

 

[brabz]

I'm not a British citizen, so I don't claim to have all the details, but didn't they try to do a National ID Card in the early 80's to combat football hooligans?

 

[vamp rocks]

no!!! it will make my fake ID useless... then where will i satisfy my underage alcoholism.... oh w8! ... erm... i mean... uhhh.... yeah, you know what. that is exactly what i ment.

P.S. lol XD

 

[afrophysics]

First prove that there is any evidence to make it universally compulsory to have a card, because it's almost certainly not. Don't use misleading language to try and paint the UK as some kind of police state, it's not and you know it.

There is lot's of surveillance but how does it inconvenience you? As long as we're not forced to carry the card, I think I'd be fine with it.

 

[John Galt]

I'm not sure what point a national ID card would have other than to carry it. After all, why not just stick with the current driver's license and passport deal if you're not going to make carrying it mandatory. This is either blatant fascism or incredibly inept governance.

 

[Jamash]

I'm English & apart from the £93 part of the scheme, I don't really have too much of a problem with it.

Non of the data on the card is anything I would have a reason to withhold, I'm not a criminal so I can't see any reason to lie about or conceal my identity. I'm proud of who I am & if the government insists that I have to carry a card with that data, then so be it.

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't really see it as the "infringement on civil liberties" that other people seem to view it as.

zirnitra, since I may be ignorant of all the issues, would you mind expanding on your negative views?

 

[zirnitra]

I'm not a British citizen, so I don't claim to have all the details, but didn't they try to do a National ID Card in the early 80's to combat football hooligans?

not that I'm aware of. we had them during the war
"Protest reached Parliament, where the Conservative and Liberal peers voiced their anger over what they saw as 'Socialist card-indexing'. After the defeat of the Labour Government in the General Election of October 1951 the incoming Conservative administration of Winston Churchill was pledged to get rid of the scheme, 'to set the people free', in the words of one minister. Cheers rang out when on 21 February 1952 the Minister for Health, Harry Crookshank, announced in the House of Commons that national identity cards were to be scrapped. This was a popular move, adopted against the wishes of the police and the security services, though the decision to repeal the 1939 legislation was, in significant part, driven by the need for economies. By 1952 national registration was costing £500,000 per annum, a huge sum for the day, and required 1500 civil servants to administer it."

"Failure to inform the Government of a change of address or other personal details will result in a fine of £1,000. Fines for refusing to register have been removed until a later Bill; instead passports and/or other designated documents (e.g. driving licence) may be denied. Failure to inform the Government if the card is tampered with, damaged, lost or stolen may result in a prison sentence of up to 51 weeks"

it's not so much the card I'm actually worried about it's the database it's self as of yet iris scans are not widely used so why do they want them? it suggests that within 5 years the government will be able to track you where ever you are. requiring you to scan in using finger prints or iris for something as simple as a cash transaction or getting on a bus.

 

[Serge Drago]

Although I'm not surprised that Britain is going down the socialist path again, I'm sure the US will one up them by skipping the ID cards and going straight for the microchips up the ass. But remember everyone 'It's for the children.' *sarcasm*

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

My total response to this, and a damn funny flash movie. (With puppies)
http://eclectech.co.uk/clarkeidcards.php

 

[fulano]

Well. For those who do not know. here in the UK the government is opting to force us into replacing our Passports/driving licenses for ID cards containing are iris scans, fingerprints, national security, place of birth, ethnicity, DOB etc etc and making us pay £93 pounds for the privilege of becoming a number in a database. Britain's first major step to the Britain of of 1984. I quite evidently have negative view on this, how do people from other countries see this and what's the rest of the British public's opinion on it?

Ahem. Just a though. Here in Mexico we have something like that already, it's called "credencial de elector," or as you'd roughly translate "voting card." It's used to become a registered voter, but it's also an all around identification card. It has photograph, fingerprint, birthdate, address, and probably something else I'm forgetting about. The difference I see, is that for us is free.

I for one don't see it as such a bad thing, but yes, it could, potentially lead to some pretty ugly stuff; but if "The Man" is out there, and it wants you, it will no doubt get you. ID cards be damned.

All the "freedoms" and services that you enjoy are in a way granted to you the moment you become an individual, and how do you become an individual according to the state? By proving that you exist, And how do you prove you exist? By being NAMED and registered with that name by mum and dad in a big bad database with lots and lots of names like yours. That way people can know that you are who you say you are, you can collect social service, pensions, a salary, etc. Even moreso if you are from a first world country like the U.K that keeps its shit in order, unlike Mexico.

Remember that If you are gonna whine about freedoms vanishing and somesuch, you should probably start with that.

 

[afrophysics]

Although I'm not surprised that Britain is going down the socialist path again, I'm sure the US will one up them by skipping the ID cards and going straight for the microchips up the ass. But remember everyone 'It's for the children.' *sarcasm*

What has national identity cards got to do with socialism?

 

[Xvito]

Although I'm not surprised that Britain is going down the socialist path again, I'm sure the US will one up them by skipping the ID cards and going straight for the microchips up the ass. But remember everyone 'It's for the children.' *sarcasm*

What has national identity cards got to do with socialism?

Without governments there will be no chips...
Revolution!!

 

[fulano]

Yeah, right. Go for revolution and then people will call you a terrorist.

 

[Jamash]

I admit filling in government forms is a bit of a pain in the arse, but if it has to be done when I change address then so what? I have to do the same with my bank etc. anyway & I'm not planning on changing my address quickly anyway.

I can already be tracked by cash transactions anyway, or at least my bank card can be & I hope I'll be the only person using my card.

I couldn't give a shit if the government know every bus journey I take, what harm could that do? If the government wants to be that boring then I say "Go ahead, have fun".

I can't see much of a problem with iris scans, maybe they're implementing it now because it will be cheaper to do it now with the new ID cards rather than have to scan & re-issue new cards when they find more use for it. The only problem I could see is that I may get locked out of a secure area if I'm drunk or stoned or tripping because it doesn't recognise my iris.

Personally I can't really see any problems & any security benefits could only be a good thing, right?

 

[Xvito]

One thing always leads to another and there will always be people in power who will abuse this kind of system. Even local councils are already abusing Terror laws to spy on people.

The current systems in place are fine and abused enough as it is, we don't need any more.

Here in Sweden they've just recently started to monitor peoples computers, but it's "obviously" to capture the terrorists :C

 

[BardSeed]

When are they to be issued? I won't accept one and if I'm forced then I'll simply move to another country. If this causes a revolution then I'll be happy to join.

 

[afrophysics]

Zirnita still has one major flaw in his first post and that is to assume that the government is going to force us to get the cards, for which there is absolutely no evidence.

 

[BardSeed]

Zirnita still has one major flaw in his first post and that is to assume that the government is going to force us to get the cards, for which there is absolutely no evidence.

http://www.no2id.net/IDSchemes/FAQ/index.php#11
It's compulsory according to that site.

 

[afrophysics]

Zirnita still has one major flaw in his first post and that is to assume that the government is going to force us to get the cards, for which there is absolutely no evidence.

http://www.no2id.net/IDSchemes/FAQ/index.php#11
It's compulsory according to that site.

Because it is an opposition campaign, they say that with no basis.