Necessary double standards?

[Relish in Chaos]

Which double standards do you think are necessary? I was just thinking about how female-on-male sexual harassment is often used as a topic of humour for sitcoms, but if it wasn't funny to so many, it wouldn't be used, would it? Admittedly, that kind of sexual harassment is pretty rare. So I'm not sure whether or not it's bad for them to use it, even if it is a double standard.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Male and female sports teams. Men and women have biological differences that make inter-gender sports seem unfair. If men are a little stronger just because they have a Y chromosome, how is that fair to the female athletes? Male and female restrooms are another one too, although I'm not totally sold that its a necessity only that in my society its a necessity.

 

[Cheesepower5]

None? I don't really think anything is necessary. Except maybe hydrogen, carbon and oxygen if you're into the whole "life" fad going around the last few billion years...

 

[Realitycrash]

Positive discrimination in the work-place (i.e if two applications for a certain job is equal, and the interview with the two goes equally well, the job should go to whoever is getting said positive discrimination. Usually female, but male as well in some areas, like childcare), until we reach an equal enough society where it isn't needed.

 

[Phasmal]

Positive discrimination in the work-place (i.e if two applications for a certain job is equal, and the interview with the two goes equally well, the job should go to whoever is getting said positive discrimination. Usually female, but male as well in some areas, like childcare), until we reach an equal enough society where it isn't needed.

Yeah, that.
When I was in college doing my childcare course we had posters all in and around the building encouraging men to enroll in childcare classes. Didn't have any men in my class but I have gone on to work with a few men in nurseries.

Also, bathrooms, maybe, but that's not 100%. When my brother was little I used to take him into the ladies room if he needed the toilet.

 

[Palademon]

Male and female restrooms are another one too, although I'm not totally sold that its a necessity only that in my society its a necessity.

See, to me this gets complicated.

How do you divide people by gender for restrooms and changing rooms, when in our modern society we are aware of sexualities other than heterosexuality? Makes more sense for restrooms if you have urinals, but otherwise people could easily use the same place.

It seems natural to have privacy based on gender, because genders and different and we feel naturally comfortable around people of our gender sometimes, and you feel you can't be objectified or looked at, but there's probably going to be people uncomfortable with homosexuals or bisexuals using the same areas.

And the worst thing about mentioning this is I can't help but end up sounding like a bigot even though I personally don't mind it. I'm just jealous of the lesbians.

 

[Legion]

Positive discrimination in the work-place (i.e if two applications for a certain job is equal, and the interview with the two goes equally well, the job should go to whoever is getting said positive discrimination. Usually female, but male as well in some areas, like childcare), until we reach an equal enough society where it isn't needed.

All descrimination is negative. Actions such as those you suggest are always bad. It is IMPOSSIBLE to fully accomodate every group in society, there is no such thing as "equal" candidates, and even considering such a rule demeans those in the "protected" groups because everyone thinks they got the job because of their skin colour/gender/disability/whatever instead of being the best.

All we should be doing is stopping discrimination in hiring practices.

Positive discrimination is a phrase used to describe discrimination such as deliberately hiring more of a certain ethnicity or gender, because the work place is lacking an equal amount of them compared to other genders/ethnicities.

I am not saying it is right, or is positive, as I don't agree with it, but that is what the phrase refers to, the person you quoted didn't choose to call it that, it's just what it is referred to as.

 

[Ariyura]

I like girls with big boobs (not too big) but I don't think guys should have big boobs.
Actually it not really that big a double standard, as male boobs can't be used for breast feeding.

Guy boobs are great, especially when they're nice and firm and smooth.... wait what was I going to say?

Yea, I'm not sure I have any necessary double standards. I was the only female on an all male wrestling team in HS but they had to let me join the team and the other boys were too afraid to be too rough. I really wish they would of challenged me for real.

 

[neverarine]

I like girls with big boobs (not too big) but I don't think guys should have big boobs.
Actually it not really that big a double standard, as male boobs can't be used for breast feeding.

technically they can..... it has been proven that even a man can produce breast milk if his body is put under the proper conditions...

but yeah the gender bathrooms things is becoming an issue believe it or not... i remember when i was in college i was part of this debate about turning the faculty bathroom into a "gender neutral" bathroom becease the transexuals were feeling awkward with the current bathroom arrangement, as in they werent sure which one they ought to use... so we made a gender nuetral one so that they wouldnt have that problem

 

[Palademon]

I'm pansexual and let me tell you, when I use the restroom or the change rooms with other women, there's nothing sexual going on.

Spoiler: I'm spoilering this because it's semi-adult.

I even have a fetish for urine and have done some "things" within a bathroom lol. Public toilets are just the polar opposite of the romantic or sexual setting. You go in there for a pretty specific reason. So even me, with my weird kink, am not checking anyone out.

Really it's just about catering to the majority; you can never make everyone happy and most people aren't interested in their own sex, so gender defined toilets will satisfy the largest group.

Thank you for that response, I thought I was going to be yelled at. Especially since I was kinda tangenting into changing rooms.

 

[Lieju]

Which double standards do you think are necessary? I was just thinking about how female-on-male sexual harassment is often used as a topic of humour for sitcoms, but if it wasn't funny to so many, it wouldn't be used, would it? So I'm not sure whether or not it's bad for them to use it, even if it is a double standard, perhaps based on its rarity.

It might be funny to people, but it doesn't mean it's right. People used to think Minstrel shows were pretty funny.

I am of the opinion that you can make fun of anything, even sexual harassment, but if the joke is 'this is funny because it's female-on-male', that's not okay.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Male and female restrooms are another one too, although I'm not totally sold that its a necessity only that in my society its a necessity.

See, to me this gets complicated.

How do you divide people by gender for restrooms and changing rooms, when in our modern society we are aware of sexualities other than heterosexuality? Makes more sense for restrooms if you have urinals, but otherwise people could easily use the same place.

It seems natural to have privacy based on gender, because genders and different and we feel naturally comfortable around people of our gender sometimes, and you feel you can't be objectified or looked at, but there's probably going to be people uncomfortable with homosexuals or bisexuals using the same areas.

And the worst thing about mentioning this is I can't help but end up sounding like a bigot even though I personally don't mind it. I'm just jealous of the lesbians.

For changing rooms, yes, it?s necessary to have gender-separate ones. Fact of the matter is that we do live in a heteronormative society. Unless you?re really paranoid, no-one really thinks about whether or not someone?s gay unless they know their sexuality or they say it (and why would anyone announce that they?re gay in a changing room anyway)? It?s understandable if men would be distracted, for lack of a better word, if numerous women are undressing around them. Imagine how embarrassing it would be trying to both hide the fact that you?ve got a hard-on and change into your clothes when sexual arousal signals are sounding off all over the place.

But for just toilets, that?s?just not a sexual place at all. I can see why they exist, but they?re not that important. You go in, you piss/shit, you wash your hands, you dry them, and walk out. You?re not in there for that long, and it?d be pretty obvious if you were peeking over a cubicle door to check out a woman peeing (and as far as fetishes go, urolagnia?s in the minority). My secondary school installed unisex toilets a couple of years ago, and there?s been no trouble. They pretty much consist of all cubicles with sinks inside, and driers outside. The toilet rooms themselves, though, are pretty small, as far as they go.

Which double standards do you think are necessary? I was just thinking about how female-on-male sexual harassment is often used as a topic of humour for sitcoms, but if it wasn't funny to so many, it wouldn't be used, would it? So I'm not sure whether or not it's bad for them to use it, even if it is a double standard, perhaps based on its rarity.

It might be funny to people, but it doesn't mean it's right. People used to think Minstrel shows were pretty funny.

I am of the opinion that you can make fun of anything, even sexual harassment, but if the joke is 'this is funny because it's female-on-male', that's not okay.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I've changed my mind now.

I recently watched a Looney Tunes cartoon where, on the contrary, it was male-on-female sexual harassment that was being played for laughs, but it was Pepé Le Pew, a skunk with an exaggerated French accent, trying to court Penelope Pussycat, a female cat whom he mistook for a female skunk because white paint fell on her.

So I?m not sure whether or not they?re saying that it?s alright because they?re anthropomorphic animals, or it?s just, ?Who cares, it?s a cartoon and there?s obviously no actual sex anyway.? Either way, I think it was pretty old.

EDIT: Yes, it's called For Scent-imental Reasons, it's from 1949, and they did a role-reversal at the end when they had a smitten Penelope chase after a blue-painted (and presumably odourless) Pepé.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

And as much as i oppose discriminating against transexuals, they should simply go to the room they currently have the parts for. Just like everyone else.

But if they at least look like their identified gender, then there's no harm done. No-one's going to see them doing their business. It's not as if someone's going to hold up a microscope to them and say, "Wait a minute...I see an Adam's apple here!"

 

[Relish in Chaos]

And as much as i oppose discriminating against transexuals, they should simply go to the room they currently have the parts for. Just like everyone else.

But if they at least look like their identified gender, then there's no harm done. No-one's going to see them doing their business. It's not as if someone's going to hold up a microscope to them and say, "Wait a minute...I see an Adam's apple here!"

"Wait the toilet seat's up. But that wouldn't happen unless..."

"Dude looks liks a lady, Dude looks like a lady"

A pre-op trans woman would presumably sit down to pee for "practice". Or they'd just make sure to put the toilet seat down afterwards.

And I watched a programme a while ago about transgender people, where there was this pre-op trans man who had this tube device thing that kind of acted as a penis through which he could pee through.

 

[Jordi]

Male and female sports teams. Men and women have biological differences that make inter-gender sports seem unfair. If men are a little stronger just because they have a Y chromosome, how is that fair to the female athletes? Male and female restrooms are another one too, although I'm not totally sold that its a necessity only that in my society its a necessity.

Some people are born with more aptitude to be athletic than others. If you're born to be a scrawny short dude, then that isn't really any more fair than being born without a Y chromosome is it? It's not like they're going to make a pro basketball league for people born without the tall-gene. Why is making a division based on gender more acceptable than divisions based on height, ethnicity, aptitude, whatever?

It's not that I really mind, or would even like to change it, but I just wonder why this particular double standard is so universally accepted and usually not even questioned.

I don't really think any double standards are strictly necessary. On the other hand, I'm not really convinced that ignoring or trying to remove (virtually) all differences between men and women would be desirable.

 

[King of Asgaard]

Which double standards do you think are necessary? I was just thinking about how female-on-male sexual harassment is often used as a topic of humour for sitcoms, but if it wasn't funny to so many, it wouldn't be used, would it? So I'm not sure whether or not it's bad for them to use it, even if it is a double standard, perhaps based on its rarity.

It is a double standard and it is NOT acceptable. It is barbaric and harmful to the men that are sexually harrassed, just like it used to be to the women when we made fun of them.

And if you think men being harrassed is a rarity, you are quite wrong.

I agree completely.
Whenever I see that in comedies nowadays, I instantly hate the female character that does it, and it happens so often it's as if the guys writing the script think it's comedy gold.

OT: No double-standard should be acceptable. Why should a man be reprimanded for an action, but a woman let off the hook with no repercussions, or vice versa? This sort of conduct is downright wrong, and is detrimental to both parties.

 

[DEAD34345]

Uh... None, double standards are discriminatory and unfair by their very nature, that's what makes them a double standard. To list some common ones that are seen as acceptable:

Sports: Yes, males tend to be genetically stronger and fitter than females, but if a female who happens to be just as good at a game as the top males comes along, then why shouldn't they be allowed in the top teams?

"Positive" Discrimination: People should be given jobs etc based on their aptitude for those jobs. If this happens to lead to predominantly white (for example) workers in this certain job, then that is an unfortunate sign of the continuing inequality in society, but it is not the fault of those white workers for being better than other workers, and they should not be punished.

Chivalry: I do think people should be polite to one another (holding open doors etc), but I don't see why that should only apply to men being polite to women. Is it really that hard to just be decent to one another regardless of genders?

 

[Kennetic]

Uh... None, double standards are discriminatory and unfair by their very nature, that's what makes them a double standard. To list some common ones that are seen as acceptable:

Sports: Yes, males tend to be genetically stronger and fitter than females, but if a female who happens to be just as good at a game as the top males comes along, then why shouldn't they be allowed in the top teams?

"Positive" Discrimination: People should be given jobs etc based on their aptitude for those jobs. If this happens to lead to predominantly white (for example) workers in this certain job, then that is an unfortunate sign of the continuing inequality in society, but it is not the fault of those white workers for being better than other workers, and they should not be punished.

Chivalry: I do think people should be polite to one another (holding open doors etc), but I don't see why that should only apply to men being polite to women. Is it really that hard to just be decent to one another regardless of genders?

as far as sports go, look at the olympics. Women at the peak of fitness are no match for men at peak fitness and would never get picked for the top teams because they simply aren't as good as men at that level

 

[DEAD34345]

-snip-

as far as sports go, look at the olympics. Women at the peak of fitness are no match for men at peak fitness and would never get picked for the top teams because they simply aren't as good as men at that level

Ok then, so why do they need to be specifically withheld from joining male teams anyway? If they're not good enough as you say then they won't be picked anyway. With the Olympics specifically it's more understandable (though I still disagree with it), but that argument doesn't really work at all with team based sports that rely on a mix of skills. It's entirely plausible that a female could be just as good as a top-tier male striker, or goalie, or whatever else in football for example (English football I'm talking about here by the way, I don't know anything about American football).

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Male and female restrooms are another one too, although I'm not totally sold that its a necessity only that in my society its a necessity.

See, to me this gets complicated.

It's not complicated at all. A person with a dick goes to the mens' rooms and a person with a vagina goes to the lady's room. Your sexual identity is irrelevant.

In my province you can no longer technically stop anyone from going into either washroom without violating their human rights (even though its still technically illegal...damn odd)

But ignoring that, where does the 3 year old with a vagina go if she is there with her 40 year old father who has a dick? Now what if that 3 year old is 10?

It's not so clear sometimes.

More importantly...why is it necessary that a distinction is made?

Well, when I was younger, I had to go to the women's public toilets with my mother because I couldn't go myself. So, in that situation, yes, it's fine for a very young child to go into the opposite gender's toilets if their parent is of that gender.

By 10, though, you ought to be going to the toilets by yourself. I don't know any parent who'd argue against that, unless they're ridiculously overprotective and paranoid.