Need a relatively objective, constructive, and nostalgia-less view on Planescape Torment

[ninja666]

Whenever I ask for an RPG recommendation, or look through "the best RPG of all the damn time" type of lists, I always get Planescape Torment shoved into my face. Both the article writers and the common folk on the forums basically keep jizzing all over this game, telling how good it is and how it will never be bested by anything hurr durr.

While I'm really slowly starting to convince myself to actually play it for longer than 40 minutes, I can't shake the feeling of skepticism about it, and can't stop thinking that some (if not all) of those opinions are nostalgia-fueled bullshit talk, where you overlook all the blatant flaws of the game just because it keeps reminding you of the good times in your childhood/adolescence.

That's why this thread exists. I need a constructive criticism about this game from someone who doesn't have nostalgic feelings about this game or can shake them off enough so they won't blind his view about it. I want to know everything about its good and its bad, whether it has an interesting story or not (from the perspective of someone who despises based hero, epic, world-saving plots) and if it aged well and still is playable for an Average Joe, like me, who's not used to RPG rules that were common years ago, but aren't anymore.

Why not read some reviews, then? Well, the problem with reviews of this game is that they fall into the two groups:
1. Reviews made at the time of release that assume you know everything about a typical RPG mechanics from that time and often skip that part entirely.
2. "Retro reviews" that aren't reviews, but rather praising the game in all superlatives.

That is why I prefer to make a thread and acquire opinions from users, based on their experience, to truly know what to expect. I hope you can help me on this one.

 

[The Madman]

I only played Planescape: Torment for the first time long after it had come out, though still a few years ago now, and tis good.

In terms of gameplay Torment is easily the weakest of the infinity engine games. It's just not very good or well balanced despite their being some neat spells and abilities. The graphics aren't very good even by infinity engine standards, though using a widescreen mod for higher resolutions certainly helps a lot. And almost all the 'action' takes place through dialogue bubbles, meaning that if you're not in the mood for reading you're going to be very frustrated with Torment.

With all that said however the story really is fantastic, easily one of the best I've encountered in the gaming industry. The characters are likable and memorable. The setting fantastically unique and a blast to explore. The replayability is solid with lots of interesting branching dialogue and clever decisions that need to be made. Dialogue is well written and the soundtrack gorgeous to boot.

So as long as you go into Planescape: Torment with the mindset that you're basically about to embark on a fancy branching 'choose your own adventure' story as opposed to something like Skyrim or even Baldur's Gate, you're in for one hell of a treat. In that regard Torment really is as good as everyone says it is. If however you're looking for a more 'gamey' experience you're better off with something like Baldur's Gate, which might not have as complex of a story but which manages a far better balance between gameplay and narrative for a more complete experience.

 

[Zhukov]

- Gameplay is old and clunky. It's a simplified version of the DnD based RPGs that were common as rats at the time. It sort of sits in this awkward position that offers neither old school depth and complexity nor modern streamlined polish. I have no idea how easy or hard it will be for you to learn it, all I can say is that I managed without much trouble. The dungeon crawling and inventory shuffling adds nothing of value to the game, it would have been better as a point-and-click adventure.

- Story is at least interesting. It's the video game amnesia story with some Philosophy 101 sprinkled about. Personally I was underwhelmed. Reached the end and all I could say was, "That's it?" It isn't a heroic, "epic", world-saver though, so that's nice. It's just about one dude with no memory trying to piece things together. If you pay attention and be thorough with the dialogue trees then you'll see the twists coming a mile away.

- Setting is pretty cool, albeit a bit too "game-y" in some respects. A sort of transdimensional crossroads/trading hub.

- Characters are a mixed bag, a lot of them feeling a bit one-note. Having to rely entirely on functional but pedestrian prose to convey all the story and dialogue doesn't do them any favours. Still, there's some fun to be had and some pretty cool NPCs running about the place.

Overall I'd say there's no harm in giving it a shot. I'm certainly not about to tell you it'll change your life or stay with you till you die, but you just might end up being one of those people who like it.

 

[ninja666]

Thanks, that was really helpful. I like story-heavy games and don't mind reading, so I think I can give it a shot. I've always had a problem with the game, though - in every playthrough after leaving the starting location (the lab/morgue area) and going into the city I felt lost and confused. I had no real goal or sense of direction whatsoever. Does it end quickly and after a while you're on-track or is it one of those games where you have to dig for hours and hours, talking with tons of NPCs for the actual main questline to start?

And now that I'm asking that - how are the dialogues themselves? Are they more in a "straight to the point" fashion, where you can easily distinguish what's a key element and what's not, or are they more of a convoluted mess, where you basically trigger the quests accidentally by selecting one of 6 possible dialogue outcomes, while the remaining five can lock you out of it for good, or do some crazy stuff like making the NPC stab you in the ribs because you said something that offended him?

 

[GothmogII]

The main quest is already started as soon as you leave the Mortuary, but, digging around is part of the experience, besides which most of the city is pretty safe so talk to everyone, at least any NPC that has a name, you can ignore non-named NPC's and do not talk to the black demon looking guys walking around the place unless you know what you're doing. x)

You can quite easily piss NPC's off by saying the wrong thing, but, you kind of have to read all the options and gauge the tone yourself as this is obviously before the whole dialogue wheel thing like in Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

You can't really lock yourself out of the story though unless you either kill a plot sensitive NPC of which there are few, or piss off one of the more powerful NPC's who -can- and will kill you, permanently. The quest log is pretty handy though some quests are sparse on details and can be confusing. The dialogue options also have a neat thing at times where you can say the same thing but it will have a prefix such as Truth/Lie/Vow/Promise etc. It can effect the outcome of of certain quests and can change your alignment.

If an -item- is ever mentioned in dialogue, keep it, it will be important at some point.

 

[Mister K]

I played this game for the first time, um, a year ago, so I don't feel nostalgic about it.

So, with that said:
- Combat is the worst part of the game. Boring it is. Since this game is basically a visual novel/RPG at it's core, I didn't really feel any need to set the difficulty to anything but easy just to save myself some time;

- From what I remember, every stat matters, because they all somehow affect your choices in dialogues;

- Where the game shines is, well, everything else: story, characters, main quests, side quests, setting. Heck, you'll even meet humanoid representation of O.

Overall, if you expect some cool action-RPG with badass combat, then it is not for you. If you seek great story and experience, however, then play it and know what can change the nature of the man.

P.S. While the game allows you to freely switch classes, please do concentrate on one, since experience gained goes towards developing ONLY the class you currently have. I recommend a mage. Check the great and mighty internet on how tombecome one and do it as soon as you can.

 

[Fishyash]

Started playing it a few years ago. I generally took long breaks from the game because I kept gettting performance issues, but I decided to finish it a few months ago.

As everyone else said, the combat is absolute balls. Most of it however isn't necessary, and don't worry about being underpowered from it because you gain more than enough XP through interacting with the environment, recalling memories and going through quests and conversations.

The story is decent, and uses the Planescape setting really well. However the writing shines in particularly through the execution of the story. The game is very text heavy but describes things adequately to make up for any lost detail the (admittedly nice) grahpics fail to bring. The game has an emphasis on exploring, but overall has a linear progression. The side quests are just as enjoyable as following the main story, and sometimes you may be doing what you thought was a side quest, but reveals information that helps the main quest. The game also has some very good moments.

The dialogue is overall very good. My favourite thing about Planescape: Torment's dialogue is the fact you sometimes have the option of saying something as truth or a lie. It's really interesting that you can make false vows/promises, and whether you say it truthfully or not will effect your alignment.

The writing overall is very well done. The characters were interesting and I'd say the quality of the writing in the game makes it easily one of the best RPGs, as it makes up for the subpar combat entirely. The only real flaw with the writing is the pacing, the game is VERY main quest focused towards the end.

The main advice I'd give is to regularly check your journal. It's decently written to help you remember what you've done (which was great for me since I took some really long breaks from the game), and also can give you hints for sidequests or give you a bit of direction on what to do next.

 

[TessaraVejgan]

Whenever I ask for an RPG recommendation, or look through "the best RPG of all the damn time" type of lists, I always get Planescape Torment shoved into my face. Both the article writers and the common folk on the forums basically keep jizzing all over this game, telling how good it is and how it will never be bested by anything hurr durr.

While I'm really slowly starting to convince myself to actually play it for longer than 40 minutes, I can't shake the feeling of skepticism about it, and can't stop thinking that some (if not all) of those opinions are nostalgia-fueled bullshit talk, where you overlook all the blatant flaws of the game just because it keeps reminding you of the good times in your childhood/adolescence.

That's why this thread exists. I need a constructive criticism about this game from someone who doesn't have nostalgic feelings about this game or can shake them off enough so they won't blind his view about it. I want to know everything about its good and its bad, whether it has an interesting story or not (from the perspective of someone who despises based hero, epic, world-saving plots) and if it aged well and still is playable for an Average Joe, like me, who's not used to RPG rules that were common years ago, but aren't anymore.

Why not read some reviews, then? Well, the problem with reviews of this game is that they fall into the two groups:
1. Reviews made at the time of release that assume you know everything about a typical RPG mechanics from that time and often skip that part entirely.
2. "Retro reviews" that aren't reviews, but rather praising the game in all superlatives.

That is why I prefer to make a thread and acquire opinions from users, based on their experience, to truly know what to expect. I hope you can help me on this one.

- Story is fantastic, one of the best I have seen. Leagues better than BG
- Gameplay is ok but it takes time to get used to
- the game has a lot of bugs
- use mods to get the most out of it

Is that good enough for you?

CAPTCHA : the dude abides, hmmm

 

[ninja666]

All right, I think that's enough. Thank you for the write-ups. They were really helpful. Looks like all the "best RPG ever" buzz is based on the story alone, and it's really disappointing the gameplay seems to be mediocre at best. I'll have to think it over if I really want to play it because while I care for the story more, the gameplay is also an important factor to me.

 

[briankoontz]

It's funny how no old video game can be praised without it being "nostalgia fueled bias" but we can praise old *movies* all we want without any mention of nostalgic bias. So The Godfather actually sucked, but we were impressionable youths at the time so you know, we kind of thought something was there.

As Freud might say - sometimes a good game is just a good game.

 

[sataricon]

It's funny how no old video game can be praised without it being "nostalgia fueled bias" but we can praise old *movies* all we want without any mention of nostalgic bias. So The Godfather actually sucked, but we were impressionable youths at the time so you know, we kind of thought something was there.

As Freud might say - sometimes a good game is just a good game.

True that.
and Planescape:Torment is a damn good one.
Tell this day i remember bone finger...pharod and reek wind.
i remember the words "i'm Iron given purpose.
The fallen angel and the feather "legacy".

Man this is too good of a game i can't wait for numenera.

 

[Littaly]

Since I'll basically just echo what most people have already said I'll keep it short.

The combat gameplay is really weak, but thankfully it's not shoved in your face like it's the best thing since sliced bread. The story and characters are good but nothing special. The real reason to play the game is the setting it portrays and the ideas it presents along the way, in that regard it's both unique and amazing.

Also you have to like reading. Everything is presented through a wall of text, and the game is not going to help you climb it.

Bottom line, it's a flawed and unwelcoming game (I made two attempts to get into it and closed it down after about an hour before I finally got into it), but if you can look past its flaws and endure its presentation it's a one of the most worthwhile and unique experience in gaming.

 

[Random Gamer]

Just leaving this here:

That's the kind of things you'll find in the game. I won't put the hilarious option you'll get shortly afterwards, but let's just say there's a lot of gems in the game, which tends to unlock other gems in dialogue.


Whatever, the mere fact you're playing an immortal that actually wants to die, and has a bad case of amnesia to boot, should be enough to hook people on this game.
If it isn't enough, a floating talkative skull is your first side-kick, and you get it from the very first minutes of the game.

 

[George Mori]

First post, figures it should be about this game.

I adore Planescape: Torment, it may in fact be my favorite WRPG of all time. But the game definitely is not flawless. However its flaws are at the very least interesting, and at worst fairly unintrusive, IMO.

Now I do hear people in this thread talk about how the gameplay in the game isn't up to snuff. I disagree, mostly. The combat in the game is fairly meh, mainly because it isn't as well put together in its combat encounters as Baldur's Gate and IWD, even though it does use a similar Dungeons and Dragons 2e put into a pseudo real time system. If you haven't played any other infinity engine games, basically it means that the game is turn based, but it all happens in real time (think FFXII or Dragon Age, though far more rigid.) Combat however is not the main focus of the game, in fact the game itself is set up to allow you to avoid combat as much as possible, depending on your stats. The bulk of the gameplay is the dialogue trees, the exploration of the planes, and solving the main mystery of the game, and in this, Planescape is pretty much unmatched.

What I WOULD recommend is to look at some character creation guides, because hoo boy it is pretty easy to cut off the best parts of the game depending on how you build your character, but hey, it's a Chris Avellone joint, the goes with the territory.

At the end of the day though, the main question is, what is most important to you when it comes to RPGs, is it the world, characters, story and choices? Then Planescape should be right up your alley. As those aspects of the game play are top notch. If you find that you are a combat aficionado and like a whole lot of crunchy character building for that purpose, you might have more issues.

 

[Uncle Comrade]

It's funny how no old video game can be praised without it being "nostalgia fueled bias" but we can praise old *movies* all we want without any mention of nostalgic bias. So The Godfather actually sucked, but we were impressionable youths at the time so you know, we kind of thought something was there.

As Freud might say - sometimes a good game is just a good game.

True that.
and Planescape:Torment is a damn good one.
Tell this day i remember bone finger...pharod and reek wind.
i remember the words "i'm Iron given purpose.
The fallen angel and the feather "legacy".

Man this is too good of a game i can't wait for numenera.

Don't forget "What can change the nature of a man?"

Honestly, the philosophical parts of the game are what I enjoy most about it. The idea of belief affecting reality, the philosophies of the different factions, the Brothel of Intellectual Lusts (especially the girl who trades stories), the reason people end up on the Pillar of Skulls, meeting beings of pure logic or chaos, discussing morality with your previous incarnations. I love that stuff.

What I don't love are the abysmal combat mechanics, and the amount of pissing about you have to do between the good bits, especially during the early part of the game when your party is too weak to fight more than one group of thugs without having to go rest. Whenever I think about replaying the game, it's remembering the slog that stops me from doing so.

So yeah, to answer the OP, my un-stalgic view is that it's a great story full of brilliant concepts let down by bad gameplay.