Need feedback, experience with horror/survival games!

[TBR]

I'm working on a game concept (something I do, as I want to become a game designer), and I'm trying to work through as many genres as I can. I've got some that I'm happy with already (flying, racing, stealth, and a few others), but currently I'm working on a survival/horror game.

Unfortunately, while I'm a big fan of...pretty much every other type of game, I don't really know much about this one, and as such haven't been buying many.

Fortunately, I heard a rumor that some of you guys may, in fact, be interested in video games, and I hoped that you could help me.

What I want to know are these:

Firstly, what are some shining examples of the genre? Some must-plays of this facet of gaming.

Secondly, what are the main good points of survival horror? What am I supposed to be looking for in a great game? Basically, I'm looking for all the standout parts.

Thirdly, if 10 english-speaking aliens from another planet landed in your toilet, and Tim Schafer ordered you to accurately and personally describe the horror/survival genre to them, what would you say to the aliens? Remember, these aliens have no idea what a survival/horror game is!


Finally, a bit more on the concept I'm working on. I'm looking at some true 3D gameplay (in a usual FPS, you're only on the one plane, on the ground, barely moving in the z axis (like LittleBigPlanet, but on it's side), whereas with this it'll be true 3D gameplay).
I believe this frees up the player a lot (according to my calculations, XYZ is a 150% improvement over XY), and it means a better use of the available space in each level.


Thanks in advance guys!

 

[RoarakDragon]

I'm currently in school and don't feel comfortable writing here with teachers breathing in my neck, but here are a few things I personally enjoy or need to be in a survival horror game in my personal opinion.

First of all, a good story. No we don't want to see another 'omg lols so here is this giant enemy monster, go flip it on his back and attack his weak points for massive gore'. The first few Resident Evil games and Silent Hill are perfect shining examples. Notice I said the first few Resident Evil games, which brings me to mmy next point.

Do NOT turn it into another 'here are monsters, go kill them with your 50 overpowered weapons and try not to die' game. No, a survival horror game has to be scary. How do you make things scary? Not knowing when or what is out to get you, and feeling powerless compared to the enemy. A gun or something of the sorts is fine but don't make it a shooting game with horror theme. Scarce ammo or weapons also works really well and add to the suspension.

If you want your game to be good try not to turn it into another big cliché horror game. Make something original. How many horror games are there who set in a haunted mansion? (...Fine, Resident Evil is also guilty of this). And there are two things you just have to avoid if you want your game to be taken seriously by me. Don't overload it with quicktime events. Some are fine, but overdo it and I will dump the game right away. But next is the most important thing that makes or breaks a game for me. Jumpy moments, you know, you walk around and suddenly something as cheap and lame as a skull shows up on the screen with a loud screech in the background. Something like that, don't do it. It's unoriginal, uninteresting and more importantly it doesn't make the game scary. If I like those things I'll sit in a empty room with a squirt gun that shoots in my face every 5-15 minutes at random.

And please before you start on this, start playing or looking up the Silent Hill series. The Silent Hill series is still the number 1 survival horror game. I doubt many games will ever top it either. With that said I have to say Homecomming (5?) wasn't a good example. Can't talk about Shattered Memories because I never played that one. Though it looks like another Wii-fied game.

But this is all in my opinion of course. Different people, different tastes. I'm a major fan of horror games and movies and I'm sure many people who are also a fan of the ganre do agree with me on most points.

 

[MercurySteam]

I know some people are gonna hate me for this but Dead Space is a shining example of a great survival horror game. Why? The atmosphere of course. No matter how many times I play it through, the freaky atmosphere gets me every time. It's all in the detail.

 

[Looking For Alaska]

Survival Horror. My own. My precious

The classic titles: Silent Hill 1-4, RE 0-3,Fear Effect, Clocktower series

For your 2nd point: Balancing the survival aspect. This is a very. very hard thing to get right. I should be afraid of dying not of failing. If you die continuously from massive difficulty spikes, your Survival-Horror game is ruined entirely. When I've seen the new game screen four times in as many minutes is when I return your game to the store. However if I'm always on the brink of death, terrified of how close I am to dying, then you've succeeded.

Atmosphere and plot are the other two important factors. If it doesn't have a good story and atmosphere, I (and many others) will not enjoy it and will not play it.

Thirdly:I would say survival-horror is immersing your player to the point where the jumbled, mobile mass of pixels on the screen is no longer a jumbled, moving mass of pixels and is a living, breathing world. Watching horror on a mass of jumbled pixels is time-wasting. Stringing the player along through a horrifically living, breathing world is art.

 

[Crosshead]

"Firstly, what are some shining examples of the genre? Some must-plays of this facet of gaming?"

Well, as has already been stated, Silent Hill is probably the daddy here. You need to understand the genre, play a couple of those. Resident Evil is the other big franchise, but its worth noting that the last two games have really been action titles, with a horror theme. Thats not to say they aren't good, scary games, but look to the early ones for "purer" survival horror. And ignore the first person shooter games like they are death.

"Secondly, what are the main good points of survival horror? What am I supposed to be looking for in a great game? Basically, I'm looking for all the standout parts."

Fear. Thats what you want. You should be genuinely unsettled when playing these games. You should jump at unexpected noises. You should be just as happy to run as to fight. When you see the enemy, they should be genuinely disturbing in some way. The atmosphere should be oppressive. Thats the only hard and fast rule. A lot of people won't play these games alone.
There are a lot of ways to get this level of fear in. Underequip the player. Keep it dark, so they can't see clearly around them. Make strange disturbing noises that make the player jump. Be original, so that what happens to them is unexpected. Tips to make a game scary could easily fill a separate thread.

"Thirdly, if 10 english-speaking aliens from another planet landed in your toilet, and Tim Schafer ordered you to accurately and personally describe the horror/survival genre to them, what would you say to the aliens? Remember, these aliens have no idea what a survival/horror game is!"

Imagine you are alone, with no friends or support, lost in a place that you don't understand, with things that you can only hope are merely trying to kill you. There is no way out that you can see. You are woefully underequipped. You don't understand whats going on, but you must try to escape, because you are terrified. You don't even know if it is possible to get out. But you must try, because the alternative will be worse then death.

 

[RoarakDragon]

I know some people are gonna hate me for this but Dead Space is a shining example of a great survival horror game. Why? The atmosphere of course. No matter how many times I play it through, the freaky atmosphere gets me every time. It's all in the detail.

Actually, I partly agree. It's an original game with fantastic atmosphere but it does have a few things I don't like.

First of all, it's another one of those shooting games with a horror theme. But a good one at that, but I could have done with a little less shooting and more avoiding monsters or something. Another thing are the anti-gravity parts. It was fun for a few times but it started getting annoying after a few times.

You should jump at unexpected noises.

Yea, no...
Of course this is my opinion and I already said it before. But jumpy moments aren't scary, they are just unexpected and don't belong in a good game in my opinion. Resident Evil did do this in a good way however, I'll give a good example.

At the start of the game you walk through an empty corridor with windows. All of sudden you hear a loud glass-shattering noise and a zombie bursts through the window. This happends a few times in the game and I have to admit, walking near a window or through corridors was scary as hell for the rest of the game. Even near the end of the game I still had the feeling something could jump through those windows once again.

But it's hard to master these events. If you want a bad example of these 'scare tactics' look up a screamer on either google or youtube. Heck I'll look up that maze game if someone can't find it. I can't imagine many people not knowing what game I'm talking about.

 

[TBR]

Thanks for that.

Here's some more about what I'm thinking off, if I'm going the wrong way anywhere just say so.

The game is set underwater (hence the ability to move in all 3 axis), after a nuclear 'mistake' (like the bomb testing on the atols, but worse). Like Fallout, this has had an affect on the creatures, and I'm trying to extrapolate and refine the big scary things that swim now so that they 'evolve' believably. Failing that, everyone knows the scariest things are the massive creatures in the deep water, I'll deal with it.
Basically, I'm aiming for the good bit of the Jaws movies (something absolutely massively terrifying might/will eat you, and you can't do shit), played out through the world and 'economy' of the Stalker games and Fallout 3, with things like oxygen/ammunition/escape mechanisms/etc.

As for jumpy moments, how about some longer, impending-doom bits, where you see that shadow off in the distance become bigger, and bigger, and as it gains definition, etc, until you find something like this rapidly approaching?

Spoiler

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/0/0a/20060721061255!Basking_Shark.jpg
except carnivorous, and twice the size

Again, thanks, and I'll play through the silent hill games.

 

[Janus Vesta]

The more helpless the player feels the more scared they will be, limit ammo, make enemies difficult to kill (they have to choose whether running would be a better option to wasting ammo). Don't have a crapload of enemies attacking at once, one or two does fine if you do it right, more enemies may seems scarier but it can often make the player feel like they're being cheated and discourage them. Item management is also good, make it so the player can carry enough to survive but not so much that he'll be unstopable. He should run out of items if he uses them overzealously but also have to choose between ammo or health, a new gun or a flashlight, etc.

Atmoshpere: Dark, flickering lights, breaking lights, ambient sounds of monsters/zombies/whatever that the player can't see can spook them if they aren't overused. The sound of wind and a creeking gate. Make sure there is no background music, it kills the mood most of the time. Make movement sounds louder than the ambiance, show the player he is all alone. Crows are also good if the player is out in the open.

Making the flashlight run out or require batteries can work, but mostly it's just annoying. If you do use one make sure it lasts at least 2 minutes before it goes out but don't have it so they can run through the whole game without turning it off. And for the love of god no midget napoleons.

 

[JEBWrench]

Eternal Darkness.

Furburt wins again.

Anyways, Eternal Darkness.
Other examples to check out are the Silent Hill series (even Shattered Memories is an interesting take on the whole thing), Eternal Darkness, Fatal Frame, Resident (Eternal Darkness) Evil (Eternal Darkness) is good for (Eternal Darkness) a laugh (Eternal Darkness).

Alone (Eternal Darkness) in the (Eternal)Dark(ness) is a classic as well, though it's more a scary adventure game.

 

[TBR]

OH GOD I GOT NINJAD SO BAD

my first response was to Rorak Dragon.

Furburt, I'll try that game. I've already got RE4 though, great game.

MicCheck, brilliant, that's exactly the kind of thing I want to hear. Thanks!

Crosshead, thanks to you too! I've already got the dark bit, when SCUBA diving the scariest bit is always that 20m swim from the dark blue ocean to the bright and colourful reef, let me tell you that!

As for Dead Space and anti-gravity (and the complaints thereof), did it really affect the horror bit, or was it just boring gameplay?

 

[Looking For Alaska]

Well first of all the economy in Fallout 3 was terrible because I never had less than 2,000 caps and as many rounds at any time, even on Very Hard mode. But, I do understand what you mean.

Setting it under water is a good idea. Original and it's something many are terrified of.

Also I didn't mention it earlier, because I figured its painfully obvious, but: Jump scares are fine and dandy, but when you use them too much is when the game stops being scary. I would hope you focus more on Psychological horror. As I said, play Silent Hill. It will help.

Edit: Also, read some Stephen King.

Edit 2:And some H.P. Lovecraft

 

[JEBWrench]

One good jump scare, however, in the case of a certain game I can't seem to remember the name of, can really scare the bejeesus out of you.

 

[RoarakDragon]

Oh dear god how could I forget Fatal Frame. Definitely look up the game Fatal Frame, even gameplay videos work.

Can't say anything about Eternal Darkness because I never played that game. Not going to pick it up either because it's simply too old now. I can't get myself to play through a game with such outdated graphics.

About your shark game idea, sounds really original so far and I like the idea. But I don't know, so far the image I have in my mind is a bright blue ocean with shadows. Nothing too scary in my opinion.

Did you think about an underwater game in a shipwreck alone yet? Think of it, there could be already dead bodies of humans there and perhaps the ship was transporting chemicals around. There will be loads of corridors where things 'could' be standing...or swimming. But right now I'm just thinking out loud. Perhaps I was wrong altogether with my image of your game so far.

 

[TBR]

Oh dear god how could I forget Fatal Frame. Definitely look up the game Fatal Frame, even gameplay videos work.

Can't say anything about Eternal Darkness because I never played that game. Not going to pick it up either because it's simply too old now. I can't get myself to play through a game with such outdated graphics.

About your shark game idea, sounds really original so far and I like the idea. But I don't know, so far the image I have in my mind is a bright blue ocean with shadows. Nothing too scary in my opinion.

Did you think about an underwater game in a shipwreck alone yet? Think of it, there could be already dead bodies of humans there and perhaps the ship was transporting chemicals around. There will be loads of corridors where things 'could' be standing...or swimming. But right now I'm just thinking out loud. Perhaps I was wrong altogether with my image of your game so far.

Already thought of a shipwreck, watching some YT vids of the little robot going through the Titanic...epic.

And don't worry about the bright blue ocean. It's gonna be set under there since the nuke has 'scorched the sky' meaning no bright blue skies, and as such, no bright blue oceans. Daytime in-game will be...actually, the medium-to-dark blue either side of this page looks about right.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Fallout 3 economy does = lulz when you just go around buying stuff, then killing people, which I don't want (I also have several thousand caps, the fat boy, 5 nukes and all the other good stuff because I kill everyone I see).

 

[omega 616]

What ever you do don't use zombies, I think there are enough zombie games out there.

I would answer your questions but I would be pretty much re-writing what everybody else has written.

I think Resident evil had a good idea with it's early games, they had hunters which could one hit if you were on low health, they always made me tense up.

I think another good example of this type of game is dino crisis, even though I never got very far (I was very young when I played it and I only just got past the massive t rex putting it's head through the office window)it was still a pretty scary game.

 

[RoarakDragon]

Already thought of a shipwreck, watching some YT vids of the little robot going through the Titanic...epic.

And don't worry about the bright blue ocean. It's gonna be set under there since the nuke has 'scorched the sky' meaning no bright blue skies, and as such, no bright blue oceans. Daytime in-game will be...actually, the medium-to-dark blue either side of this page looks about right.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Fallout 3 economy does = lulz when you just go around buying stuff, then killing people, which I don't want (I also have several thousand caps, the fat boy, 5 nukes and all the other good stuff because I kill everyone I see).

Yea that sounds a lot better compared to the image I had in my mind before. Heck if the monsters look disturbing enough I would put the game on my to-buy list right away. Now the only thing that would make it even more perfect are bosses in the lines of a mutated killer whale or giant squid. Perhaps even a whole school of mutated dolphins.

Don't focus everything on gameplay though, storyline is in a survival horror game sometimes even more important. Resident Evil's controls were complete and utter crap, but the story motivated me to keep on going.

 

[Looking For Alaska]

Also, make the main character interesting.

if you could have a protagonist as compelling as James Sunderland I might have to change my pants.

 

[TBR]

Yea that sounds a lot better compared to the image I had in my mind before. Heck if the monsters look disturbing enough I would put the game on my to-buy list right away. Now the only thing that would make it even more perfect are bosses in the lines of a mutated killer whale or giant squid. Perhaps even a whole school of mutated dolphins.

Don't focus everything on gameplay though, storyline is in a survival horror game sometimes even more important. Resident Evil's controls were complete and utter crap, but the story motivated me to keep on going.

Thanks!

As for story v gameplay, I firmly believe that, as this is a game, the story exists solely to drive and enhance the game, the location and the world result in the game mechanics, and the narrative itself to define the pace. If the story is greater than the game, then I think there's a problem, or they chose the wrong medium.

That said, I do agree that the story was the only thing to make up for RE4's horrible, horrible controls. Thankfully, I've got a control layout already that doesn't suck!

 

[lkevil]

On the PC i'd recommend looking at the penumbra series (available on steam). While the graphics are a bit bland the gameplay is really scary. The fact that you have no real weapons demonstrates why the genre is SURVIVAL horror as opposed to say Doom 3 which is just a horror FPS. The games also involve alot of puzzle solving.