Need some piracy advice....

[Anthony Wells]

I've heard enough of this "he's your fiend dont do it" bullshit

Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm wrong.

heres the thing if he was pirating from EA or something i would say dont report him

Ohhhhhhh, so its okay as long as it's not happening to a company you like. Fair enough.

i would report any of my friends in an instant if they did that...because thats less money a company i love to use in their next game.

So what makes this reasoning okay and my response 'bullshit'? I can see the reason in wanting to so chivalrously your favourite publisher but I don't agree with it. And if they are pirating it, chances are they weren't going to pay for it in the first place.

I retracted my post before you responded.

Sorry mate, the internet is written in ink.

Technically it is written in code.

 

[Dryk]

Disapprove, not too often but vocally. If you don't wear him down eventually nothing you do will make a difference.

If you want to, you know, not completely ruin his entire existence, you could just make it seem like he's been caught. Make a bogus e-mail with an official sounding name and send a really important looking paper telling him he's been busted.

To make it look legitimate enough he'd have to infringe on someone's trademarks...

 

[MercurySteam]

Technically it is written in code.

Yes, but I'm not talking in technicalities. You posted something and I responded to it. We can move on now

 

[Anthony Wells]

Technically it is written in code.

Yes, but I'm not talking in technicalities. You posted something and I responded to it. We can move on now

and as i said i retracted my post because of three reasons:
1. it wasnt a thought out response
2. it was a responce of annoyance which i dont normally do.
and most importantly 3. i was and am tired while writing these so they are not my usual caliber of arguments.

 

[MercurySteam]

Technically it is written in code.

Yes, but I'm not talking in technicalities. You posted something and I responded to it. We can move on now

and as i said i retracted my post because of three reasons:
1. it wasnt a thought out response
2. it was a responce of annoyance which i dont normally do.
and most importantly 3. i was and am tired while writing these so they are not my usual caliber of arguments.

I understand that and it has been duly noted but I have decided that this thread is a spiralling argument that won't get us anywhere so I'm pretty much done with it now.

 

[Vegosiux]

Faulty logic.

See, you don't buy a game. You're not buying the files that exist on the disc, you're buying the legal right to be able to play the game. At any time, you can choose to give up that right and pass it on to someone else, by giving it as a Gift or selling it for someone to Buy Used. This someone else now has the legal right to play the game, and you no longer do. Borrowing or Renting is just a temporary transfer of the right, to be given back at a later date according to a contract, whether it be verbal or written.

Why yes, that it's "faulty logic" was kind of his point - in order to show just how ridiculous the generalization is that "Not paying for it = theft".

 

[smokeyninjas]

As bad as piracy is just remember it could be worse.
Your friend could be a proper judas who betrays & fucks over people he personally knows & even thinks of as friends.

 

[Dryk]

Justify, twist, quote and moralize all you want - to me, taking and using a copy of digital media you didn't pay for means you stole it. Having not taken a physical copy - box, disk etc - doesn't change that; just means you stole directly from the developer rather than the retail store. Which carries much, much less risk and penalty for being caught, which really boils down to why it happens - people too afraid of real-world penalty so they use a system which makes them harder to be caught and punished, and then their own sense of morality by swinging into denial.

I hate thieves, but I really hate thieves who refuse to admit their wrongdoings, especially in this case where they up-front admit to doing it, but refuse to acknowledge it as a crime, or at the very least, something immoral and wrong.

You'll never convince me otherwise, and frankly I someone is a despicable person for, again, trying to make it sound 'better' at best or 'a-okay' at worst.

He's not trying to do any of those things, he's trying to teach you how to stop undermining your argument. They may be similar, and equally wrong, but they are not the same and insisting that they are does nothing but harm your position.

At any time, you can choose to give up that right and pass it on to someone else, by giving it as a Gift or selling it for someone to Buy Used.

Not all the time, and not for long <.<

 

[Vegosiux]

Hate to break it to you, mate, but that's a rather textbook definition of 'theft'.

Well, you don't pay for a gift, you don't pay if you borrow something, and neither of those are theft. So, we must conclude that "not paying for it" does not necessarily mean "theft".

Also...

Justify, twist, quote and moralize all you want - to me, taking and using a copy of digital media you didn't pay for means you stole it. Having not taken a physical copy - box, disk etc - doesn't change that; just means you stole directly from the developer rather than the retail store. Which carries much, much less risk and penalty for being caught, which really boils down to why it happens - people too afraid of real-world penalty so they use a system which makes them harder to be caught and punished, and then their own sense of morality by swinging into denial.

I hate thieves, but I really hate thieves who refuse to admit their wrongdoings, especially in this case where they up-front admit to doing it, but refuse to acknowledge it as a crime, or at the very least, something immoral and wrong.

You'll never convince me otherwise, and frankly I someone is a despicable person for, again, trying to make it sound 'better' at best or 'a-okay' at worst.

He's not trying to do any of those things, he's trying to teach you how to stop undermining your argument. They may be similar, and equally wrong, but they are not the same and insisting that they are does nothing but harm your position.

Umm, you might want to check your quoting, because you're giving me credit for something I never said.

Yes, he misquoted, but that's exactly what my point was.

And it is again. By sweeping generalizations and not getting definitions straight, you do nothing but weaken your own position.

 

[AngloDoom]

Some people are so stupid.

Seriously, what kind of Dickhead even thinks about ratting out a ''Friend'' for anything less then causing others actual physical harm?

Woah, woah, woah. Some people hold others to different standards of morality than others and you have every right to judge them how you please, but actively attacking them? Come on, there's no need for that.

OT:

Personally, I'd let the whole thing slide. If you friend isn't going to listen to you then there's little you can do, except perhaps refuse to talk to associate with him until they're more the type of person you do want to associate with.

I'd personally ask yourself if you find your friend's actions as that unforgivable, because we all have flaws and, lets face it, we all 'pirate' something from time to time - music, images, games, computer programmes - and while your friend may technically be 'wrong' from a lawful perspective it shouldn't really affect your friendship with him.

Some of my friends take drugs which are illegal in my country, but so long as they don't cause any problems for myself or any other friends then it is their mistake to make. I'd suggest taking a similar stance and saving yourself the stress of lying to a friend.

 

[Vegosiux]

You don't pay for a gift, but the one who gave it to you did.
You don't pay for something you borrow, but the one who loaned it to you did.

That's irrelevant, since we had the argument of "Taking what you didn't pay for".

Not "Taking what nobody paid for".

That's what I call "moving the goalposts".

 

[GoaThief]

Oh boy, look at how fast this thread was infested with people screaming "it's stealing! Look, you take something that doesn't belong to you and you don't support the ones who make it! How can it not be stealing? Logic? What logic? Derp!"

If pirating is stealing, then borrowing, renting and buying used is also stealing. In all cases, you take something that doesn't belong to you and never support the maker of the product. Logic.

Are you serious?

If so then you can't be very well educated on how rentals work, nor the concept of loaning or selling for that matter. A small hint would be that money changes hands in exchange for a product.

If anyone is lacking sound logic and reasoning in this instance, it's yourself.

 

[SpAc3man]

Just leave him to it. He won't get updates and he won't get access to the Steam Workshop. His loss.

I pirated Skyrim because I am not a huge RPG person so I didn't want to waste my money but I still wanted to try it.
After spending almost an entire night playing it I went and bought it the very next day.

EDIT: I think what you need to really consider here is would your friend buy it if he couldn't get it for free? He has already stated he doesn't want to pay for it is likely he wouldn't buy it either way. Not really a lost sale.

 

[Dryk]

Umm, you might want to check your quoting, because you're giving me credit for something I never said.

Oh yeah, really sorry about that. You weren't even anywhere in that post I have no idea how that happened XD

It'll be fixed in a sec

That's not the argument at all, what the fuck are you talking about?

I think they are being pedantic and attempting to argue a very moot point regarding the exact turn of phrase because he/she thinks that in doing so, it somehow validates piracy.

I could be wrong, however.

I hope not. I think that when dealing with theft and copyright infringement, being physical and non-physical/post-scarcity counterparts I feel different terminology, and assessing the two crimes AS counterparts but maintaining the distinction is important.

It does not validate them, or automatically make one right, or more right than the other. It just recognises that while they are very similar crimes they are also very different. Like the whole buy vs license thing.

 

[GoaThief]

That's not the argument at all, what the fuck are you talking about?

I guess they are being pedantic and attempting to argue a very moot point regarding the exact turn of phrase because he/she thinks that in doing so, it somehow validates piracy.

I could be wrong, however.

 

[Vegosiux]

You don't pay for a gift, but the one who gave it to you did.
You don't pay for something you borrow, but the one who loaned it to you did.

That's irrelevant, since we had the argument of "Taking what you didn't pay for".

Not "Taking what nobody paid for".

That's what I call "moving the goalposts".

That's not the argument at all, what the fuck are you talking about?

*sigh* About the fact that some people get too emotionally involved and too dependant on buzzwords, so their arguments are weak. And since they're essentially arguments in favor of something I agree with (seeing as I'm not exactly a fan of piracy myself), that really annoys me.

You know, few things are worse than shoddy arguments for something you agree with.

That's not the argument at all, what the fuck are you talking about?

I think they are being pedantic and attempting to argue a very moot point regarding the exact turn of phrase because he/she thinks that in doing so, it somehow validates piracy.

I could be wrong, however.

You are wrong.

I'm not trying to validate piracy, I just want people to pull their heads out of their asses and stop making weak arguments against it, because weak arguments harm the cause. Yes, I'm being pedantic, but with a pretty reasonable intention - if you want to argue a case, make it watertight, not...shoddy.

 

[lapan]

I am just upset that people think I enjoy the thought, I really don't but I did'nt think the reaction would be so... Nasty, I used to think the Escapist was a place were fellow posters would understand your point of view. I guess not, thanks for the feedback anyway.

People have been sued in the hundreds of thousands for copyright infrigement before. you aren't teaching him a lesson, you will ruin him financially. That's why people can't understand your point of view. If he really is a friend i'm sure you can come up with a better way.

 

[AngloDoom]

Some people are so stupid.

Seriously, what kind of Dickhead even thinks about ratting out a ''Friend'' for anything less then causing others actual physical harm?

Woah, woah, woah. Some people hold others to different standards of morality than others and you have every right to judge them how you please, but actively attacking them? Come on, there's no need for that.

Yeah, actually there is. It's people like him that make it possible for Corporations to constantly screw over Consumers.

May I ask how? As far as I can see, which may be rather short-sighted of me I admit, the person he is 'screwing over' is not a consumer. His friend is committing a crime and the OP is reporting it so that the 'criminal' may face consequence and the company that legally made the game for purchase receives the money it rightfully deserves for creating the game. I don't see what's so bad about that - if anything I'm finding it hard to justify why the OP shouldn't rat out his friend, besides squishy human loyalty.

That kind of idiocy is VERY deserving of attacks. That's not even mentioning that he is so warped that he is putting Bethesda earning 60$ above ''friendship''. I'm afraid the person doesn't know what friendship is, as another poster stated, OP needs to stop for a second and reevaluate his loyalty. Because going by his post he might aswell have his paycheck go straight to Bethesda.

How the OP values their friendships is their own business. If their sense of morality - toward whatever issue - conflicts so highly with their friend's that they can't get on, whose business is that but their own? Some people stop talking to their friends because they snort cocaine, some because they regularly get into fights, and some because they shoplift. The point isn't that the OP values money over friendship, but the view of his friend has sank because he views him now as a thief, robbing a company of money it rightfully deserves for creating a product.

Especially since iut is neither his business nor his place to try and force his (idiotic) morality onto his ''friend''.

I agree more with this statement, to a degree. On the one hand, the guy is not physically harming anyone so I personally wouldn't get involved. However, I'd report an anonymous person in for shoplifting, and if the OP sees the two crimes as identical offences then how is friendship a defence for not reporting a crime?

I understand this is all very black/white logic, but it seems to be the wavelength the OP is operating on so it seems apt to try and view it from that angle.

 

[Shockolate]

My first thought is to:

1. Get undeniable proof he pirated it.
2. Steal something of his.
3. Blackmail him with it.

Yeah. I'm a terrible person. Don't do that.

 

[Tipsy Giant]

Here's an idea, mind your fucking business. Who made you the harbinger of doom.
Your friend is a an adult capable of making his own decisions and who are you to act all high and mighty.
If you think his opinion on piracy is so reprehensible stop being friends