Nelson Mandela Dies

[Coakle]

"The Long Walk to Freedom" is one of the greatest autobiographies I've read. It offers a nuanced view on civil resistance and leadership from the point of view of an expert on the field. More than that the book allows you to see how Mandela formed himself into a leader and optimist. Anyone who wants learn more about Nelson Mandela, or just a good read should pick this book up.

Or if book reading isn't your thing, read his quotes online.

quote

I am fundamentally an optimist. Whether that comes from nature or nurture, I cannot say. Part of being optimistic is keeping one's head pointed toward the sun, one's feet moving forward. There were many dark moments when my faith in humanity was sorely tested, but I would not and could not give myself up to despair. That way lays defeat and death.

endquote

I dunno, read the book, so you can see why he says this. Everyone should know about his life. He does not deserve to become just another 'great man'.

 

[GundamSentinel]

I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand I realize this man has done great things for human rights (Nobel prize well-deserved, unlike others I could name) and has meant a lot to a great number of people. On the other hand, I'll honestly admit that I personally don't know enough about him to truly be touched by his death.

Also, I get a bit annoyed by some people hailing him as a faultless saint (apparently Mandela himself said otherwise), while at the same time admonishing people who will not immediately share that opinion.

 

[Liv's Runaway Snail]

Although it is quite sad I'm sort of glad he has died, his family had kept him on life support for months...And I find that quite cruel.

 

[BrownGaijin]

In thinking about his quest for equality and whether it will continue within the hearts of those left behind, I find myself paraphrasing Rastaman the Griot from the movie Bulworth:

"He got to be a spirit! He can't be no ghost."

 

[Whispering Cynic]

Frankly, the amount of praise this man gets is quite surprising. Sure, he fought against apartheid but we cannot dispute the fact that during the last twenty years South Africa - one of the most prosperous countries on that continent - became a pretty much lawless hellhole.

Also, the man was a convicted terrorist, with so much innocent blood on his hands that it makes me sick just thinking about it.

 

[O maestre]

Frankly, the amount of praise this man gets is quite surprising. Sure, he fought against apartheid but we cannot dispute the fact that during the last twenty years South Africa - one of the most prosperous countries on that continent - became a pretty much lawless hellhole.

Also, the man was a convicted terrorist, with so much innocent blood on his hands that it makes me sick just thinking about it.

You sound like an apartheid apologist, are seriously telling me that South Africa was prosperous!? for who the 8% of the population? Give me a break, there is no valid excuse for apartheid. Consider the brutality of the system he was fighting and the fact that he opted for reconciliation instead of retaliation after he won, it makes him a greater man and peacemaker than most other humans. Mandela could have been like Mugabe but instead he opted to forgive and move forward.

Also Mandela spent 26 years of his life in jail for his "crimes" there are limits to how many acts of violence he personally engaged in.

The last 20 years of South Africa he has not been the president, morally corrupt people succeeded him, not his fault. Do some research.

 

[Axolotl]

Frankly, the amount of praise this man gets is quite surprising. Sure, he fought against apartheid but we cannot dispute the fact that during the last twenty years South Africa - one of the most prosperous countries on that continent - became a pretty much lawless hellhole.

It hasn't become a lawless hellhole, it was and remained a part of Africa. It's not reasonable to demand that as well as peacefully ending a system of brutal oppression that he also transform the country into a part of Scandinavia.

Also, the man was a convicted terrorist, with so much innocent blood on his hands that it makes me sick just thinking about it.

He has far less innocent blood on his hands than say every US President of the past 50 or so years, never mind most of the other leaders of decolonised Africa.

 

[Oly J]

RIP Mr. Mandela, you were awesome in "The Shawshank Redemption" (I am so sorry, but the joke was there, I HAD to)

joking is just my way of dealing with things, no offence intended, seriously though, while I'm not altogether surprised (the man was 95 and on life-support) it is saddening to hear of this, Nelson Mandela was an icon, and the fact that he managed to live so long and die naturally is just amazing. I'm sure the man wasn't perfect, but hey, life well lived.

 

[Whispering Cynic]

You sound like an apartheid apologist, are seriously telling me that South Africa was prosperous!? for who the 8% of the population? Give me a break, there is no valid excuse for apartheid. Consider the brutality of the system he was fighting and the fact that he opted for reconciliation instead of retaliation after he won, it makes him a greater man and peacemaker than most other humans. Mandela could have been like Mugabe but instead he opted to forgive and move forward.

Also Mandela spent 26 years of his life in jail for his "crimes" there are limits to how many acts of violence he personally engaged in.

The last 20 years of South Africa he has not been the president, morally corrupt people succeeded him, not his fault. Do some research.

I'm not condoning apartheid. I'm merely looking at the facts: twenty five years ago South Africa wasn't a country with one of the highest murder and rape rates in the world, now it is. Fighting the apartheid was certainly the right thing to do, but the end result should have been very different from what it is today.

It hasn't become a lawless hellhole, it was and remained a part of Africa. It's not reasonable to demand that as well as peacefully ending a system of brutal oppression that he also transform the country into a part of Scandinavia.

Perhaps, but when it comes to peaceful ending of oppression I do expect the rates of violent crime to drop or stay the same, not skyrocket.

He has far less innocent blood on his hands than say every US President of the past 50 or so years, never mind most of the other leaders of decolonised Africa.

And that makes it fine? Makes targeting civilians justifiable? Well, not for me, and I reserve the right to question the integrity of anyone who used/uses terror to achieve their goals.


Mandela has done some good in his life, I'm not disputing that. But from the way the world is talking one would think that the man was some sort of paragon of equality, justice, and good. But he wasn't, and that so many people don't seem to want to admit it is troubling.

 

[Axolotl]

I'm not condoning apartheid. I'm merely looking at the facts: twenty five years ago South Africa wasn't a country with one of the highest murder and rape rates in the world, now it is. Fighting the apartheid was certainly the right thing to do, but the end result should have been very different from what it is today.

It's pretty easy to have a low crime rate when around 90% of the population don't count.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I can't say much more than what anyone else has said, but yeah, my condolences go to his family and Nelson Mandela, you will be missed, but now you can rest in peace.

 

[Dragonbums]

It's depressing that he passed away.

But every time I see this I get angered at the sleazebags on Twitter who made everything he did a fucking challenge going on Twitter expressing their "condolences" when they made sure that they did everything in their power to push him back.

While Mandela may be resting in peace- I fear for what the propaganda media will do to his image afterwards.

 

[O maestre]

You sound like an apartheid apologist, are seriously telling me that South Africa was prosperous!? for who the 8% of the population? Give me a break, there is no valid excuse for apartheid. Consider the brutality of the system he was fighting and the fact that he opted for reconciliation instead of retaliation after he won, it makes him a greater man and peacemaker than most other humans. Mandela could have been like Mugabe but instead he opted to forgive and move forward.

Also Mandela spent 26 years of his life in jail for his "crimes" there are limits to how many acts of violence he personally engaged in.

The last 20 years of South Africa he has not been the president, morally corrupt people succeeded him, not his fault. Do some research.

I'm not condoning apartheid. I'm merely looking at the facts: twenty five years ago South Africa wasn't a country with one of the highest murder and rape rates in the world, now it is. Fighting the apartheid was certainly the right thing to do, but the end result should have been very different from what it is today.

I'm stating facts as well 92% of the populace being oppressed is not prosperous. The next you are going to tell me that Nazi Germany was preferable to postwar Germany due to the production and employment opportunities. You've got to look at the big picture not just a crime statistic. The end result could have been much much worse, due to either retalliation or tribal tension because of South Africa not being a homogenized populace. Those 8% of whites would have been extinct if Mandela had been just another terrorist thug, the communists would have nationalized all the industry and South africa would have become just like Zimbabwe or the Gaza strip.

So many humans become corrupted by power and anger, not Mandela that is what makes him exceptional and worth recognition. True peacemakers are very rare amongst our species. We should praise and honour that man's memorie, why? because we need more peacemakers in the world, we need more reconciliation and forgiveness. I can comfortably see him as a paragon of those qualities.

I know for a fact that if I had been in his position, in power, with millions of followers, after so many years of abuse, I would be hungry after revenge.

As for his crimes, like I stated in my post he did spend 27 years in jail, some of them in solitary confinement(I just checked and 26 was wrong on my part)

 

[Frission]

I'm liking this thread of remembering Mandela better than the one in R&P. The one in R&P has way more Apartheid apologists for some reason.

 

[Axolotl]

could every one stop blindly worshipping him, im sick of this, he wasn't this god like perfect human you all seem to wish he was, he did and endorsed many terrible things, to forget the truth in place of this false image is even more disrespectful then if your where spitting on his grave. The apartheid regime was a crime against humanity; as illogical as it was cruel, and because of this, people want to simplify the subject by declaring that all who opposed it were wholly and unswervingly good, he was a bad person who did bad things to other bad people as well as innocent people. history is written by the victors

History is mainly written by people who know how to use capital letters.

 

[Zipa]

Humanity is poorer for losing him, he did what he had to to secure equality for South Africa and while some of the things he did were as he himself admitted reprehensible his actions ultimately led to a great deal of good for many people and a better future for S.Africa and even humanity itself.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

So RIP Madiba.

 

[Evonisia]

It's quite sad, albeit expected that he died. It just seems weird now that we've lost an icon.

My own wish would have been for him to last five more years, 'cause icons don't typically survive to the big triple figures.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

could every one stop blindly worshipping him, im sick of this, he wasn't this god like perfect human you all seem to wish he was, he did and endorsed many terrible things, to forget the truth in place of this false image is even more disrespectful then if your where spitting on his grave. The apartheid regime was a crime against humanity; as illogical as it was cruel, and because of this, people want to simplify the subject by declaring that all who opposed it were wholly and unswervingly good, he was a bad person who did bad things to other bad people as well as innocent people. history is written by the victors

I agree that people should stop treating him like some kind of messiah; even Mandela said that he wasn't a messiah, only an ordinary man who became President through extraordinary circumstances.

But the rest of your post is bullshit. He was a good man who fought apartheid mostly with diplomacy and compassion, so he doesn't deserve to be called a "bad person".

 

[Private Custard]

But the rest of your post is bullshit. He was a good man who fought apartheid mostly with diplomacy and compassion, so he doesn't deserve to be called a "bad person".

I'd suggest you do a little research before calling bullshit.

http://thebackbencher.co.uk/3-things-you-didnt-want-to-know-about-nelson-mandela/

He did, and ordered, many bad things......for a good cause.

To be honest, I'm very torn on this. On the one hand, SA was totally fucked up. Apartheid was an awful thing. But nothing can ever excuse blowing up innocent civilians.....nothing.....end of

But, for his flaws, he always said he wasn't a messiah. He said he was an ordinary person with flaws. He knew he'd done bad things. He did a lot of good after his release.

Fuck it, I'm confused here!

 

[WWmelb]

could every one stop blindly worshipping him, im sick of this, he wasn't this god like perfect human you all seem to wish he was, he did and endorsed many terrible things, to forget the truth in place of this false image is even more disrespectful then if your where spitting on his grave. The apartheid regime was a crime against humanity; as illogical as it was cruel, and because of this, people want to simplify the subject by declaring that all who opposed it were wholly and unswervingly good, he was a bad person who did bad things to other bad people as well as innocent people. history is written by the victors

Shit in life and war and global power ain't simple. He did what he had to do, some good, some bad. At least he acknowledged his flaws unlike most western leaders.

Now.. what really bugged me : "The apartheid regime was a crime against humanity; as illogical as it was cruel, and because of this, people want to simplify the subject by declaring that all who opposed it were wholly and unswervingly good" you put this into your post as if it's your own writing.


From http://thebackbencher.co.uk/3-things-you-didnt-want-to-know-about-nelson-mandela/

"The apartheid regime was a crime against humanity; as illogical as it was cruel. It is tempting, therefore, to simplify the subject by declaring that all who opposed it were wholly and unswervingly good."

Don't just copy paste shit from another person's article and palm it off as your own. Especially when that article goes on to say this:

"It?s important to remember, however, that Mandela has been the first to hold his hands up to his shortcomings and mistakes. In books and speeches, he goes to great length to admit his errors. The real tragedy is that too many in the West can?t bring themselves to see what the great man himself has said all along; that he?s just as flawed as the rest of us, and should not be put on a pedestal."

I have no idea why you would do this, but it's cheap and shows how skewed YOUR view of things is.