Netflix Cuties becomes the next piece in an ever more idiotic culture war

[Terminal Blue]

Based on what I read, the director didn't grow up with these issues, she just was present as an adult at some event in france where she saw kids twerking and the audience were muslim women in their full ninja gear and she was disturbed by the girls dancing. So it's less that she was a kid with these feelings growing up and more that she wanted to explore that contrast of girls growing up with bronze age morality at home and wanting to rebel and going overbroad but I am pretty sure there were no topless 11 year olds in the event she observed lol.

Do you think perhaps the director's perspective on that event might be different from, say, yours because she is a woman, or more specifically, because she is a woman who is also a second generation immigrant from a Muslim cultural background.

I recreated the little girl who I was at that age. Growing up in two cultures is what gave me the strength and the values that I have today. I can appreciate my double culture and live between my parents' one, which is Senegalese, and my French Western one. And as a child, that question of how to become a woman was my obsession ... I put my heart into this film, because this is my story.

I mean, not every piece of art has to be autobiographical. That would be very limiting. But having a diversity of perspectives in media rather than being solely preoccupied by the experiences and fantasies of white men simply because that's the demographic of most people working in the industry seems like an overall positive thing to me.

 

[lil devils x]

But yeah again, I am the one who is for free speech, it's just interesting that when you have such matters presented in the same fashion in anime, the whole "glimpse at the world of girls" thing, people call it creepy and voyeuristic. The hypocrisy is the issue here. People are being more tolerant of this movie than they'd be of a million other much more harmless stuff because it fits with their politics in regards to gender roles more.

Judging WHAT stuff?
You never played truth or dare or spin the bottle when you were a kid? I thought everyone did that. LOL

Relaying what girls actually go through and the struggles they endure growing up in the world is one thing.
Sexualizing little girls to men and showing that to be a great thing is not the same thing at all.

 

[Trunkage]

You're making an arbitrary distinction here. You're choosing to define one thing as having more of a "reason" than another, for no reason. Just because someone claims something, that's not the same as it being a fact. Either we agree to accept all claims of intention irrespective of how they manifest, or we agree that there's no standard and nobody gets to judge anything.

Again, I am the one who is consistent here, I am in support of freedom of expression. My point is that the others are the hypocrites, because this film is made by a black woman or something.

Something that you don't like isn't arbitrary. Way too much anime nowadays is to service your penis, not your brain. And I really hate how a lot of anime just pandering to that crowd now. If you want it, fine. Stop trying to ruin the rest of anime.

And titillation for titillation sake doesn't add anything, at least for what I want. If the titillation is there to SERVICE THE STORY, then you have a defence in my books. Like, this isn't hard, bro.

I don't want a horror movie with random jump scares because they are unearned
I don't want random violence for more gore boner because that's unearned
I don't want huge boobs, I'd prefer the people make it work on developing a character. It's unearned
I don't want token LBGT character, I'd prefer the people make it work on developing a character. It's unearned
I don't want over patriotic movies, you're just feeding the propaganda machine. It's unearned.

You can have it if you want. I am also really against 'that's just the way anime is supposed to be' BS we got in the last thread.

Is this way to inconsistent for you?

 

[Trunkage]

She does it on screen. We don't see her exposed parts, but it's definitely more than just talking about it.


Judging by all the summaries I've read so far, it seems like this movie is Requiem for a Dream, except with sexuality instead of drugs. She tries it, and gets deeper and deeper into that world and ends up hurting herself and everyone around her, and at the end she rejects it and learns to embrace her own culture.

I mean, Requiem was a good movie that I never want to watch again. Or Irreversible

It kinda sounds like a good message. But, again, I'm not willing to do any of the research on this

 

[Terminal Blue]

I don't want a horror movie with random jump scares because they are unearned
I don't want random violence for more gore boner because that's unearned
I don't want huge boobs, I'd prefer the people make it work on developing a character. It's unearned
I don't want token LBGT character, I'd prefer the people make it work on developing a character. It's unearned
I don't want over patriotic movies, you're just feeding the propaganda machine. It's unearned.

As someone who generally agrees with all these things, I also think we need to clarify something.

If someone told me they had sought out and watched actual child pornography, then I would tell that person they needed to stop and direct them to seek professional help, and if they refused to stop or tried to defend what they had done, then I would consider that person intolerable. I do not believe that that person should exist as part of the same society because what they are doing is inherently harmful.

Someone liking fan service anime featuring sexualized childlike characters or bizarre soulless fantasy women with improbable boobs is not intolerable. It doesn't even necessarily mean I think you're a bad person. It's just shameful, and I will judge you for it because I have the right to do that. I think liking that shit reveals something about you that you should be ashamed of and ideally should keep hidden, if not to spare yourself humiliation then if nothing else out of respect for me. I did not consent to hear about your weird sexual hangups, and if you make it my business I'm allowed to have an opinion (and I will). That's not censorship, it's how free speech actually works.

These are entirely different levels of criticism, and decrying all criticism as "censorship" is not supporting free speech, it's incredibly anti free speech.

 

[Dreiko]

Do you think perhaps the director's perspective on that event might be different from, say, yours because she is a woman, or more specifically, because she is a woman who is also a second generation immigrant from a Muslim cultural background.

I recreated the little girl who I was at that age. Growing up in two cultures is what gave me the strength and the values that I have today. I can appreciate my double culture and live between my parents' one, which is Senegalese, and my French Western one. And as a child, that question of how to become a woman was my obsession ... I put my heart into this film, because this is my story.

I mean, not every piece of art has to be autobiographical. That would be very limiting. But having a diversity of perspectives in media rather than being solely preoccupied by the experiences and fantasies of white men simply because that's the demographic of most people working in the industry seems like an overall positive thing to me.

I would like to believe every perspective of every person would be different, because everyone has a different perspective. I just don't see it as more valuable or worth giving it passes others wouldn't get. And to clarify, my position is giving every perspective passes, not taking the pass this woman's perspective was given away.

And no the issue is that whatever her intention she is catering to the white men who are into kids, isn't it? That's why people are mad, right?

Relaying what girls actually go through and the struggles they endure growing up in the world is one thing.
Sexualizing little girls to men and showing that to be a great thing is not the same thing at all.

Right, people are complaining because their subjective interpretation is that this movie does sexualize the live action actresses. Was that unclear somewhere?

Something that you don't like isn't arbitrary. Way too much anime nowadays is to service your penis, not your brain. And I really hate how a lot of anime just pandering to that crowd now. If you want it, fine. Stop trying to ruin the rest of anime.

And titillation for titillation sake doesn't add anything, at least for what I want. If the titillation is there to SERVICE THE STORY, then you have a defence in my books. Like, this isn't hard, bro.

I don't want a horror movie with random jump scares because they are unearned
I don't want random violence for more gore boner because that's unearned
I don't want huge boobs, I'd prefer the people make it work on developing a character. It's unearned
I don't want token LBGT character, I'd prefer the people make it work on developing a character. It's unearned
I don't want over patriotic movies, you're just feeding the propaganda machine. It's unearned.

You can have it if you want. I am also really against 'that's just the way anime is supposed to be' BS we got in the last thread.

Is this way to inconsistent for you?

Are you missing the fact that the complaint here is that this movie is servicing the penis of pedos? Why do you think people are mad?

Is it just -not- doing it, because you decided you don't want it to? How does this work? And why isn't it arbitrary exactly when you can just declare things this or that way with no proof or evidence or studies or anything?


You must realize that whenever someone brings a story explanation about this or that in anime and games, people mock them and choose not to care about the story, like with Quiet in mgs5. You are arbitrarily choosing to accept a story use for this content here where you are not doing this elsewhere, and I'm calling that state of affairs out.

 

[lil devils x]

I would like to believe every perspective of every person would be different, because everyone has a different perspective. I just don't see it as more valuable or worth giving it passes others wouldn't get. And to clarify, my position is giving every perspective passes, not taking the pass this woman's perspective was given away.

And no the issue is that whatever her intention she is catering to the white men who are into kids, isn't it? That's why people are mad, right?


Right, people are complaining because their subjective interpretation is that this movie does sexualize the live action actresses. Was that unclear somewhere?




Are you missing the fact that the complaint here is that this movie is servicing the penis of pedos? Why do you think people are mad?

Is it just -not- doing it, because you decided you don't want it to? How does this work? And why isn't it arbitrary exactly when you can just declare things this or that way with no proof or evidence or studies or anything?

Why were they not complaining about the "bro movie" as well? If they are showing the sexualization as being bad, then it is not promoting it, that is instead opening the conversation up to how do we help our kids better handle these situations? As a discussion point for parenting, as representative of what we need to address that we are missing. That is a different approach entirely than promoting it as great entertainment to sexualize young girls. Context and approach actually matter here.

 

[Dreiko]

Why were they not complaining about the "bro movie" as well? If they are showing the sexualization as being bad, then it is not promoting it, that is instead opening the conversation up to how do we help our kids better handle these situations? As a discussion point for parenting, as representative of what we need to address that we are missing. That is a different approach entirely than promoting it as great entertainment to sexualize young girls. Context and approach actually matter here.

What bro movie? Legit no idea what you're referring to.


And yeah, again, I agree, this stuff is fine, so I'm taking the time to mark this event down so that in the future when I interpret something in anime or games as having a similarly valid reason for depicting whatever it may be depicting that my interpretation with christen the content wholesome and artistically meritorious.

 

[lil devils x]

What bro movie? Legit no idea what you're referring to.

I posted the awful clip of the kid being attacked by the goth girl in the closet earlier in the thread. Where was the uproar? Oh it was a joke about sex bro movie so no one cared. This sort of crap is all over American "bro movies" but no one bats an eye over it. There is seriously too much of this in american movies to keep up but no one seems to care. Oh and what about the Adam Sandler movies?

Where is the rage about promoting a pedophile teacher as something great?

 

[Chimpzy]

Where is the rage about promoting a pedophile teacher as something great?

 

[Dreiko]

I posted the awful clip of the kid being attacked by the goth girl in the closet earlier in the thread. Where was the uproar? Oh it was a joke about sex bro movie so no one cared. This sort of crap is all over American "bro movies" but no one bats an eye over it. There is seriously too much of this in american movies to keep up but no one seems to care. Oh and what about the Adam Sandler movies?

Where is the rage about promoting a pedophile teacher as something great?

Oh that's because there's a culture of male disposability which sees even young boys as always looking for sex and they're never seen as victims when they get sexually assaulted but rather they're seen as lucky for being studs.


And I mean, I was never groped or anything growing up but I'd prolly be into it if I was around that kid's age since I was an early bloomer, so that's not entirely innacurate, but the teacher is still a pedo lol. Though ultimately the boy in this scenario is given agency over his own sexuality and he is perceived as the predator who is skilled enough to take game much larger than himself, whereas with the girls the culture sees them as innocent little birds thrown in a den of snakes, so the reaction is reflective of that culture.

 

[lil devils x]

Oh that's because there's a culture of male disposability which sees even young boys as always looking for sex and they're never seen as victims when they get sexually assaulted but rather they're seen as lucky for being studs.


And I mean, I was never groped or anything growing up but I'd prolly be into it if I was around that kid's age since I was an early bloomer, so that's not entirely innacurate, but the teacher is still a pedo lol. Though ultimately the boy in this scenario is given agency over his own sexuality and he is perceived as the predator who is skilled enough to take game much larger than himself, whereas with the girls the culture sees them as innocent little birds thrown in a den of snakes, so the reaction is reflective of that culture.

That culture is promoted entirely by guys is part of the problem. I can assure you their mothers do not find anything entertaining about it at all. The same people outraged over girls actually dealing with what girls deal with don't bat an eye over actual crimes against boys being portrayed as funny or great. It is a terrible double standard. Girls shouldn't be portrayed as any more innocent than the boys. Hell, I think in reality girls are far more open about talking about sex among one another than the boys were, but their dad's would have heart attacks knowing that is the truth of it.

 

[Dreiko]

That culture is promoted entirely by guys is part of the problem. I can assure you their mothers do not find anything entertaining about it at all. The same people outraged over girls actually dealing with what girls deal with don't bat an eye over actual crimes against boys being portrayed as funny or great. It is a terrible double standard. Girls shouldn't be portrayed as any more innocent than the boys. Hell, I think in reality girls are far more open about talking about sex among one another than the boys were, but their dad's would have heart attacks knowing that is the truth of it.

The reason it's promoted by guys is that they remember being that age and being on the prowl and spending half their time dreaming about being assaulted by the goth girl in the closet. Of course this leads to actual predators taking advantage but it isn't so black and white as to say such things never are seen of as positive. And I believe girls just mature earlier so if you have two kids the same age the girl would probably want to talk more deeply about sex, I'm sure.

 

[Odin]

That was before they saw the movie.
It's apparently much worse than just dirty dancing. OP already mentioned some of it.
- 11-year old striptease
- underage girls posting nudes
- a girl blows up a used condom like a balloon
- girl fights with panty shots
- girls lie about their ages to talk dirty with older guys on Omegle
- actual boob flash during a dirty dancing segment (not featuring the protagonists, they're watching videos of a cheerleader or something. Was this particular actress an adult? I dunno.)

Just listing what happens in the film doesn't say much about how it is presented, though. Filmmakers have long honed shooting techniques in order to "show" the audience things without really actually showing anything. Hence how films like A Serbian Film or even The Kite Runner can include child rape without actually, you know, abusing a child.

 

[lil devils x]

The reason it's promoted by guys is that they remember being that age and being on the prowl and spending half their time dreaming about being assaulted by the goth girl in the closet. Of course this leads to actual predators taking advantage but it isn't so black and white as to say such things never are seen of as positive. And I believe girls just mature earlier so if you have two kids the same age the girl would probably want to talk more deeply about sex, I'm sure.

That doesn't make it okay to rant about the way girls handle sexual situations growing up but then laugh about it when boys do it. Girls remember being that age too. There shouldn't be a double standard here at all. Girls maturing faster only goes to prove that point further. Girls talking more deeply about sex in this movie seems to set people's brains on fire with not being able to handle it. They can't handle reality of what girls think at that age. If they can't handle knowing about it, how are they going to be able to have productive conversations about it with their girls to help guide them through a difficult time in their lives? Girls really struggle with this on their own. They need to be able to talk about it so they can get the guidance they need to make it through with less rough patches.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I am more interested in who directed this movie being this lady:


Is she a sketchy person?

 

[BrawlMan]

That doesn't make it okay to rant about the way girls handle sexual situations growing up but then laugh about it when boys do it. Girls remember being that age too. There shouldn't be a double standard here at all. Girls maturing faster only goes to prove that point further. Girls talking more deeply about sex in this movie and to set people's brains on fire with not being able to handle it. They can't handle reality of what girls think at that age. If they can't handle knowing about it, how are they going to be able to have productive conversations about it with their girls to help guide them through a difficult time in their lives? Girls really struggle with this on their own. They need to be able to talk about it so they can get the guidance they need to make it through with less rough patches.

The Ultimate Truth of Truths. This is why I like and respect you. I swear these idiots on Twitter are more annoying than any soccer mom, bulldog parent, or Jack Thompson. It sucks that the director has to go through all of this bullshit and has death threats coming at her. Because of that, I might just see this film out of principle alone, and partially spite these assholes.

That culture is promoted entirely by guys is part of the problem. I can assure you their mothers do not find anything entertaining about it at all. The same people outraged over girls actually dealing with what girls deal with don't bat an eye over actual crimes against boys being portrayed as funny or great. It is a terrible double standard. Girls shouldn't be portrayed as any more innocent than the boys. Hell, I think in reality girls are far more open about talking about sex among one another than the boys were, but their dad's would have heart attacks knowing that is the truth of it.

You remember the Joker's nobody panics speech? You showed one of the best examples of nobody panics.

​

 

[lil devils x]

I am more interested in who directed this movie being this lady:


Is she a sketchy person?

I understand exactly how she feels and she is more right than people realize. It was even worse for me, I "developed" early and was more noticeable due to being so petite, so it was harder because the other girls were not developing at the same age so was more spotlight on it happening to me and isolating to have boys constantly staring and keep trying to touch me. My birthday was in July so I was already younger than most kids in my grade, but to make it worse, I skipped 5th grade and was placed into 6th so I was like way younger than everyone else. I had been the shortest girl in my grade before advanced placement, so it was ridiculously bad when I was in 6th grade, knowing very few kids due to being bumped up, being short and more developed. I really hated 6th grade. It got better by 7th, but 6th was pretty traumatizing to me.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Judging WHAT stuff?
You never played truth or dare or spin the bottle when you were a kid? I thought everyone did that. LOL

I never did that either, don't think I know anyone who did. Always assumed it was a US TV thing, rather than a real US thing.

 

[Dreiko]

That doesn't make it okay to rant about the way girls handle sexual situations growing up but then laugh about it when boys do it. Girls remember being that age too. There shouldn't be a double standard here at all. Girls maturing faster only goes to prove that point further. Girls talking more deeply about sex in this movie seems to set people's brains on fire with not being able to handle it. They can't handle reality of what girls think at that age. If they can't handle knowing about it, how are they going to be able to have productive conversations about it with their girls to help guide them through a difficult time in their lives? Girls really struggle with this on their own. They need to be able to talk about it so they can get the guidance they need to make it through with less rough patches.

People don't really see it as being that though, they just see this one as a movie only pedos enjoy that only has a thin vineer of being about those issues you mention, which to me is not any more absurd than people calling people pedos for mere anime which doesn't even involve real human beings at all. In fact it's way less absurd than that.


Generally speaking I'm ok with both things and I think art should have no limits but if we wanna be that way there's another double standard to be rid of and that is people whining about drawings of fictional people.