New EU Law Forces All Cellphone Chargers to Share Common Standard

[Kahani]

This is a great idea.

Why didn't this happen a decade ago?

It pretty much did [http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-10-1776_en.htm?locale=en]. OK, not quite a decade, but we've had micro-USB as the standard for charging things in the EU for quite a while now. The only difference is now it will be an actual legal requirement, rather than just a standard that every manufacturer has agreed to (yes, including Apple). Although somewhat ironically the reason they all agreed to it voluntarily was specifically to avoid having to make a law about it (see here [http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-09-1049_en.htm?locale=fr]).

As for complaints about the EU legislating absolutely everything, this one does rather make sense. It's not just a matter of consumer convenience - given that a charger is around the same size as a phone, this halves the amount of electrical waste generated when people replace their phones. It's also worth noting that governments are, after all, supposed to represent the will of the people, and I think you'll struggle to find anyone who doesn't prefer the situation now compared to five or six years ago.

 

[Strazdas]

good. we needed this 20 years ago already. Enough with the proprietary connection bullshit. No i dont want to buy your 150 dollar charger when a 5 dolalr one does EXACTLY SAME THING, jsut because you devcided to fuck with the plug in socket.

Well, pretty much everything uses micro-usb except Apple stuff and a very small handful of tablets anyway. I'm actually curious how Apple is going to handle not using their Lightning connector.

And NOKIAs. those damn NOKIA proprietary cables. cant even plug a standart 3.5mm jacks into them sometimes.

I guess it comes down to the big government vs small government argument at the end of the day, every EU country has two governments meddling when many people around the world would view even one meddling government as being almost intolerable.

i see this in essence wrong to begin with. Its not a big government vs small one. Its a strong government vs weak one. Strong government does not need to be big, but can be when its inefficient. Just like weak one cant be big as well. EU has a strong government, while the actual Europeancommision is one of the smallest govenrments both by member size and by expense.

 

[Strazdas]

Why not? It's not guaranteed to actually work. It's a matter of who wants it more, period.

Its more a matter of Apple can either play nice or take its toys and go home. Both situations are beneficial.

If it was bad enough that legislation was needed, then people would have stopped buying the one product that wasn't part of the standard.

Just like, well, basically all US internet provider users stepped up? oh, no, they didnt, and they continue to be completely robbed.

Which means they will wait for the law to almost come into force, then challenge it. The challenges to the law will drag on for years and years, and when they lose the challenge, they'll find some other grounds to refuse to cooperate. In the end, by the time Apple is actually force to do anything, USB will be out dated and obsolete and a new law will have to be put into place, that they can then challenge again...

You can't force companies like Apple to do anything, not with the level of legal staff they have available. They can out-lawyer anyone, including any government or union on the face of the planet.

Wrong. While they challenge the law, they will still have to oblige. those years of court cases will still go with apple selling stuff with USB standard or not at all.

You are also severely mistaken about USB going outdated. USB has been through many incantations nad lasted a long time. In fact USB3 is a newcommer and is there to stay for something like 10 years at least.

You also have misconception about the law itself. The law is stated that there is a review of the standard every 5 years, which allow the upgrade with technology if necessary however it will not need a new law.

To sum it up: you dont know anything and yet you talk.

So what the EU is saying under law, If I understand this correctly,

no, you do not understand correct. read this thread, people already posted a lot of information.

snip

The law allows revision of the standart, so your theory is bogus to begin with. Also there is a reason USB is called UNIVERSAL serial bus. It is designed to work with everything. Its merely a data/current transmission.

Also industry standarts do not evolve on thier own. in fact ALL industry standarts are regulated and often mandated by higher power. In fact, back before it was regulated it was a clustterfuck of proprietary stuff. And DVDs are not universal. There is only two devices that use them as game delivery method, out of 10-13[footnote]Depending how you label cell phones the amount may warry[/footnote] currently in use. In fact, HDDVD was superior format to Blue Ray, but the porn industry took over and went for blue-ray. and there were some legal stuff that basically killed HDDVD. Even then, blueray is far from being a standard. Industry does not self regulate these matters.

People are midnless and dont stand up for themselves. see US internet.

The EU bureaucrats are unelected yet they have the most significant say in UK matters, and it's totally unrepresentative as well; places like Malta have more votes per percent of population than we (UK) do, meaning we're back with rotten boroughs again.

Um, yes, yes they are elected. In fact, by universal suffrage even.
Malta is actually quite a unique snoflake. It has a 98% voters rate (opposed to, say, 30-40% in the rest of europe) and basically everyone there is political. the 2% are usually people who are too sick to go to a voting more than anything.

If you want things to be democratic, maybe try actually going to vote next time? and i dont mean you personally, i mean UK as a whole.

 

[Royas]

Which means they will wait for the law to almost come into force, then challenge it. The challenges to the law will drag on for years and years, and when they lose the challenge, they'll find some other grounds to refuse to cooperate. In the end, by the time Apple is actually force to do anything, USB will be out dated and obsolete and a new law will have to be put into place, that they can then challenge again...

You can't force companies like Apple to do anything, not with the level of legal staff they have available. They can out-lawyer anyone, including any government or union on the face of the planet.

Wrong. While they challenge the law, they will still have to oblige. those years of court cases will still go with apple selling stuff with USB standard or not at all.

You are also severely mistaken about USB going outdated. USB has been through many incantations nad lasted a long time. In fact USB3 is a newcommer and is there to stay for something like 10 years at least.

You also have misconception about the law itself. The law is stated that there is a review of the standard every 5 years, which allow the upgrade with technology if necessary however it will not need a new law.

To sum it up: you dont know anything and yet you talk.

Often, when a case is in court challenging a law, a good lawyer or legal team (and Apple has the best, no doubt about it) can get the law put on hold while the case progresses. especially if they can demonstrate that complying with the law will be expensive. After all, no sense challenging a law if you are going to have to comply anyway, only to change back after winning (if you win). They'll get it suspended until the case works through.

USB isn't going to be obsolete, true, it just isn't likely to look like what we have now. USB 4 supposedly will be flippable, so you can't put the jack in the wrong way. That won't work too well with the way USB is designed today, so a USB 2 or 3 jack is likely to go the way of the floppy disk. Not right away, but it will happen.

The aspect of reviewing the technology is a good one, and not one I knew about. Sorry, I'm not used to laws about technology making any kind of sense as a rule. Generally, these laws are passed by people who don't understand the nuances of technology. Hopefully, this is a good sign that the legislative process is starting to catch up. I'm not getting my hopes up, though.

Overall, I'd say I know rather a lot, and at least I'm not rude when I talk. Personal insults can be checked at the door, if you please, they don't have a place in reasonable discussions. Ending your post one sentence earlier would have resulted in it being taken much more seriously.

 

[Strazdas]

Often, when a case is in court challenging a law, a good lawyer or legal team (and Apple has the best, no doubt about it) can get the law put on hold while the case progresses. especially if they can demonstrate that complying with the law will be expensive. After all, no sense challenging a law if you are going to have to comply anyway, only to change back after winning (if you win). They'll get it suspended until the case works through.

USB isn't going to be obsolete, true, it just isn't likely to look like what we have now. USB 4 supposedly will be flippable, so you can't put the jack in the wrong way. That won't work too well with the way USB is designed today, so a USB 2 or 3 jack is likely to go the way of the floppy disk. Not right away, but it will happen.

The aspect of reviewing the technology is a good one, and not one I knew about. Sorry, I'm not used to laws about technology making any kind of sense as a rule. Generally, these laws are passed by people who don't understand the nuances of technology. Hopefully, this is a good sign that the legislative process is starting to catch up. I'm not getting my hopes up, though.

Overall, I'd say I know rather a lot, and at least I'm not rude when I talk. Personal insults can be checked at the door, if you please, they don't have a place in reasonable discussions. Ending your post one sentence earlier would have resulted in it being taken much more seriously.

This is EU directive. The ONLY way to put it on hold is if European court of justice decides it should be put on hold. While it is a reglament that forces countries to make their own local laws rather than one all emcompassing one, it still cannot be "stopped" and any country that would have its law put on hold would actually be violating it, so that wont happen. Last time somones constitution decided to violate European reglamentation (i believe it was Slovakia) they got slapped down and told to follow it. It superceeds your constitution. No local court can put it on hold.

USB has always been backward compatible though. You can take ANY usb plug and put it into any (all 7 variants of it) plugs and it will work. It will only work up to speed of the fastest part (either cable or socket depending which one is slower). but it will work. heck, i had my USB3 external HDD connected to an old PC with USB 1.1 conenction and it worked flawlessly (up to the speed of USB 1.1 obviously). And USB 1/1.1 is so obsolete that you will only see it on really old machines. And i mean, 10+ years machines. Phones dont live that long usually anyway. Heck, that PC wasnt supposed to live that long either, i guess i just won the silicon lottery (basically the longevity of each part is a lottery because manufacturing isnt precise cloning). So even if, say, 10 years forward USB 3 will be obsolete (doubtful), noone but very few old machines will be using it to begin with.

As far as laws making sense, i found that European Commission laws are usually ones that makes most sense in comparison. they are not perfect, mind you, but they seem to be the way things should be done, even if they are very slow about it. So yeah, as far as the rest of the world goes i wouldnt be putting my hopes up either.

The last paragraph wasnt meant as an insult but as a summary, because the post i quoted was all wrong from beginning to the end, so i assumed you know very little on the subject. You may know "Rather a lot" but about different subject than you were talking about.

 

[Lightknight]

While it's less of a problem than in the past, I'm glad the EU is doing this. It should cut down on e-waste, at least a little bit.

I doubt it.

Unless they start selling phones without mandatory charger, they will pile up just as they do now. It's more a matter of convinience than environmental protection.

I have like five chargers in my drawer for old phones I'll never use again. Those will be moving to the trash before too long. Now, all the chargers that work with our galaxies are spread out from work to multiple rooms of the house. New ones will replace old one once we have a sufficient number.

This is great, I love that a government is actually looking out for consumers. The only thing I'm concerned about is that this kind of legislation could eventually impede progress in these areas (can't innovate as much on something that must be standard).

 

[TallanKhan]

snip

The law allows revision of the standart, so your theory is bogus to begin with. Also there is a reason USB is called UNIVERSAL serial bus. It is designed to work with everything. Its merely a data/current transmission.

Also industry standarts do not evolve on thier own. in fact ALL industry standarts are regulated and often mandated by higher power. In fact, back before it was regulated it was a clustterfuck of proprietary stuff. And DVDs are not universal. There is only two devices that use them as game delivery method, out of 10-13[footnote]Depending how you label cell phones the amount may warry[/footnote] currently in use. In fact, HDDVD was superior format to Blue Ray, but the porn industry took over and went for blue-ray. and there were some legal stuff that basically killed HDDVD. Even then, blueray is far from being a standard. Industry does not self regulate these matters.

People are midnless and dont stand up for themselves. see US internet.

No, there is nothing bogus about my theory. Just because the law permits something to be changed it doesn't mean it is feasible. Once you have a enforced standard then everyone would have to agree to change that standard, which if one company has a particular stake in the tech in question the others would not agree to.

And as for your point about USB, you have made the classic mistake of believing everything now = everything forever. Yes USB is designed to be compatible with anything, currently, however, the entire concept of charging via cable could soon be on the way out now that wireless charging is becoming mainstream. In ten years or so a battery is unlikely to resemble anything like what we think of today.

As far as industry standards go the vast majority evolve on their own, usually developed by trade bodies claiming to represent a particular sector. Almost inevitably they end up being adopted by governments, but rather than as an act of consumer protection, in the majority of cases this is a result of lobbying from the groups in question who wish to secure their market position by putting up barrier to new entrants into their particular market. Take the insurance industry in the UK, the current regulations surrounding sales of insurance and claims handling as enforced by the Financial Conduct Authority (and its predecessor organisation) are the exact same standards that the Association of British Insurers enshrined in it's voluntary code of conduct more than 20 years prior to those regulations being legislated for. And who lobbied hardest for those standards to be regulated by the government? The ABI themselves, because they saw an opportunity to disadvantage the competition by imposing practices they already adhered to.

And just to address your comment about the porn industry killing HDDVD. No it didn't. HD DVD may have been a superior end product but cost more to produce than BluRay for an exceptionally marginal benefit, meaning BluRay delivered a broadly comparable experience for better value. What finally killed HD DVD was when Wal-Mart and Best Buy stopped stocking HD DVD players and media because people weren't buying them. This was closely followed by a number of large movie studios abandoning HD DVD because they didn't want to release on two different media and BluRay was selling better.

 

[Strazdas]

No, there is nothing bogus about my theory. Just because the law permits something to be changed it doesn't mean it is feasible. Once you have a enforced standard then everyone would have to agree to change that standard, which if one company has a particular stake in the tech in question the others would not agree to.

And as for your point about USB, you have made the classic mistake of believing everything now = everything forever. Yes USB is designed to be compatible with anything, currently, however, the entire concept of charging via cable could soon be on the way out now that wireless charging is becoming mainstream. In ten years or so a battery is unlikely to resemble anything like what we think of today.

As far as industry standards go the vast majority evolve on their own, usually developed by trade bodies claiming to represent a particular sector. Almost inevitably they end up being adopted by governments, but rather than as an act of consumer protection, in the majority of cases this is a result of lobbying from the groups in question who wish to secure their market position by putting up barrier to new entrants into their particular market. Take the insurance industry in the UK, the current regulations surrounding sales of insurance and claims handling as enforced by the Financial Conduct Authority (and its predecessor organisation) are the exact same standards that the Association of British Insurers enshrined in it's voluntary code of conduct more than 20 years prior to those regulations being legislated for. And who lobbied hardest for those standards to be regulated by the government? The ABI themselves, because they saw an opportunity to disadvantage the competition by imposing practices they already adhered to.

And just to address your comment about the porn industry killing HDDVD. No it didn't. HD DVD may have been a superior end product but cost more to produce than BluRay for an exceptionally marginal benefit, meaning BluRay delivered a broadly comparable experience for better value. What finally killed HD DVD was when Wal-Mart and Best Buy stopped stocking HD DVD players and media because people weren't buying them. This was closely followed by a number of large movie studios abandoning HD DVD because they didn't want to release on two different media and BluRay was selling better.

Agreeing on a standard does not mean it removes ability to do otherwise. you can have a USB and your invented charger on. if your invention is that much superior it will surely take over.

See, USB is not a static thing. it changes and get improved. so everything in the future may have some USB 4 that looks nothing like current. the point is not to put everything to current technology, but to make chargers universal. and if wireless charging becomes a thing that whole thing is moot anyway since all chargers will be universal except proriatary for no reason shit that shouldnt be allowed to begin with.

Batteries... havent really changed that much in the last 20 years actually. they got more capacity and power now, sure, but the basic design kinda stayed the same. they just became more dense. We still use battery mechanisms discovered hundreds of years ago. the hope that we reinvent the wheel is unlikely.

industry standards almost never come from the industry, and whne it does its always for manufacturing side and never for end user side. if we let them evolve on thier own we would be fucked.

 

[Something Amyss]

Why not? It's not guaranteed to actually work. It's a matter of who wants it more, period.

That seems a non-sequitur. Care to actually answer my question?

No, it's not guaranteed to actually work, but why run with predictions contrary to past instances? EWurope has had a lot of success with other standardisations, even ones opposed by giants like Apple. Why would this be different? Concrete reasons only, please.

 

[FalloutJack]

Why not? It's not guaranteed to actually work. It's a matter of who wants it more, period.

That seems a non-sequitur. Care to actually answer my question?

No, it's not guaranteed to actually work, but why run with predictions contrary to past instances? EWurope has had a lot of success with other standardisations, even ones opposed by giants like Apple. Why would this be different? Concrete reasons only, please.

Since other people have understood exactly what I meant, I submit that you have been answered, but you just don't get it. Our little conversation about Microsoft - which I was proven right about, BTW - bears this out, certainly. The only thing I can tell you is to either give it another shot or let it drop.

 

[Something Amyss]

Since other people have understood exactly what I meant, I submit that you have been answered, but you just don't get it. Our little conversation about Microsoft - which I was proven right about, BTW - bears this out, certainly. The only thing I can tell you is to either give it another shot or let it drop.

Seriously, the "other people get it" line? Come on. If you're not going to be serious and honest, maybe you should be the one to drop it.

Until then, my point still stands, regardless of whether or not other people "get it."

 

[FalloutJack]

Since other people have understood exactly what I meant, I submit that you have been answered, but you just don't get it. Our little conversation about Microsoft - which I was proven right about, BTW - bears this out, certainly. The only thing I can tell you is to either give it another shot or let it drop.

Seriously, the "other people get it" line? Come on. If you're not going to be serious and honest, maybe you should be the one to drop it.

Until then, my point still stands, regardless of whether or not other people "get it."

No, it really doesn't. Make a new point. Otherwise, we're done here.

 

[Something Amyss]

No, it really doesn't. Make a new point. Otherwise, we're done here.

You haven't made a compelling counter-argument, so why do you get to demand I make a new point? If you want to abandon an argument because you don't have a cogent point, then by all means, do. But don't try and shift the burden on me until you've actually addressed mine.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

So, you have nothing further? Alrighty then. Thank you for your time.

 

[Something Amyss]

Snip

So, you have nothing further? Alrighty then. Thank you for your time.

Don't put words in my mouth. I have nothing further unless you actually make a case for why my current argument isn't valid. If you can't do that, it seems like you have nothing further to say. Stop trying to push the blame on me. I notice you're back to trimming out my statements so it doesn't look like you're directly contradicting what I say. Why do you do that?