New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

[inmunitas]

I'm just trying to raise points that some people clearly haven't considered, you have people claiming they're all character body-type diversity, but then go criticise other characters solely based on that characters body-type.

Criticizing a character design is not the same as saying that character shouldn't be included. Diversity necessarily means including things that are designed to appeal to people who aren't me, and that's fine.

It's also worth noting that my main criticism of Widowmaker is that the basic concept actually gets done a lot, as opposed to Zarya's. Despite the occasional claim that Zarya is a a stereotype, people are having a hard time finding many examples of characters like her in games. When it comes to diversity in games overall, Zarya is the more useful character.

Well it is when you have the media making a big deal out of "the portrayal of women in video games", it scares the artists away from experimenting with female character design because they fear they might offend someone. So you end up with what you had prior to Zarya, that being fairly average, generic, inoffensive and "safe" characters. There's also the marketing side of it too i.e. statistics, research, and demographics etc.

Or claim they're all for diversity then dismiss a suggestion such as character accent diversity because then it's some how "silly" and "not everyone is like that".

You're using quotes there, but I don't remember anybody saying either of those things.

Admittedly paraphrasing but here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873524] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873565].

 

[theNater]

Well it is when you have the media making a big deal out of "the portrayal of women in video games"...

I don't have the media doing anything. I don't control the media. I know the magnifying glass makes me look impressive, but I'm just a random person on the internet, same as you.

Admittedly paraphrasing but here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873524] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873565].

Those posts are pretty clearly dismissing your claim of discrimination, not your suggestion of accent diversity.

 

[inmunitas]

Well it is when you have the media making a big deal out of "the portrayal of women in video games"...

I don't have the media doing anything. I don't control the media. I know the magnifying glass makes me look impressive, but I'm just a random person on the internet, same as you.

Not "you" as in "you personally", but "you have" as an expression as in "you have for example".

 

[EternallyBored]

Or claim they're all for diversity then dismiss a suggestion such as character accent diversity because then it's some how "silly" and "not everyone is like that".

You're using quotes there, but I don't remember anybody saying either of those things.

Admittedly paraphrasing but here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873524] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873565].

Well it is when you have the media making a big deal out of "the portrayal of women in video games"...

I don't have the media doing anything. I don't control the media. I know the magnifying glass makes me look impressive, but I'm just a random person on the internet, same as you.

Admittedly paraphrasing but here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873524] and here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.871865.21873565].

Those posts are pretty clearly dismissing your claim of discrimination, not your suggestion of accent diversity.

Hi there, I noticed that apparently I am being quoted here for this argument, I figured I might as well clear up the gist of my post as immunitas is not paraphrasing me, he is making up his own interpretation for some reason.

theNater is correct with his post, I at no point dismissed the idea of accent diversity, only immunitas' frankly absurd claim that calling Tracer's cockney accent stereotypically British was somehow discriminatory.

To give context, this chain started when I made a post pointing out that a lot of Overwatch's characters fit into the common national stereotypes that fighting games like Street Fighter often use. Immunitas seemed to take issue with the idea that cockney was a British stereotype as cockney accents were primarily from Southern Britain, to which I pointed out that a stereotype being regional does not exclude it from being a national stereotype, the same way that McCree is a stereotypical American cowboy is not changed by the fact that cowboys are primarily from the Western region of the country.

Basically, everyone took issue with immunitas calling it discrimination, not the idea of accents in and of themselves. Blizzard adding some more accent diversity into the game would actually be interesting, and a good conversation to have, much like the body diversity, giving some spotlights to some less common portrayals of national accents or archetypes beyond the most common (cowboys, monks, cockney accents) could be a good thing.

Much like the body diversity though, I consider it a secondary criticism, and will still buy the game even if they don't do it, much like I was still planning to buy the game before Zarya was announced.

Also, please don't try to paraphrase me in the future if you are going to do such a poor job of it.

 

[inmunitas]

Hi there, I noticed that apparently I am being quoted here for this argument, I figured I might as well clear up the gist of my post as immunitas is not paraphrasing me, he is making up his own interpretation for some reason.

theNater is correct with his post, I at no point dismissed the idea of accent diversity, only immunitas' frankly absurd claim that calling Tracer's cockney accent stereotypically British was somehow discriminatory.

To give context, this chain started when I made a post pointing out that a lot of Overwatch's characters fit into the common national stereotypes that fighting games like Street Fighter often use. Immunitas seemed to take issue with the idea that cockney was a British stereotype as cockney accents were primarily from Southern Britain, to which I pointed out that a stereotype being regional does not exclude it from being a national stereotype, the same way that McCree is a stereotypical American cowboy is not changed by the fact that cowboys are primarily from the Western region of the country.

Basically, everyone took issue with immunitas calling it discrimination, not the idea of accents in and of themselves. Blizzard adding some more accent diversity into the game would actually be interesting, and a good conversation to have, much like the body diversity, giving some spotlights to some less common portrayals of national accents or archetypes beyond the most common (cowboys, monks, cockney accents) could be a good thing.

Much like the body diversity though, I consider it a secondary criticism, and will still buy the game even if they don't do it, much like I was still planning to buy the game before Zarya was announced.

Also, please don't try to paraphrase me in the future if you are going to do such a poor job of it.

Well no, Cockney is associated with a commoner from a specific area of London, it's a very specific stereotype, with the majority of London not having that accent, never mind "Southern Britain". If I was doing stereotypical British, I'd go with the well spoken upper-class gentleman or lady, as it's a far more general stereotype.

 

[EternallyBored]

Hi there, I noticed that apparently I am being quoted here for this argument, I figured I might as well clear up the gist of my post as immunitas is not paraphrasing me, he is making up his own interpretation for some reason.

theNater is correct with his post, I at no point dismissed the idea of accent diversity, only immunitas' frankly absurd claim that calling Tracer's cockney accent stereotypically British was somehow discriminatory.

To give context, this chain started when I made a post pointing out that a lot of Overwatch's characters fit into the common national stereotypes that fighting games like Street Fighter often use. Immunitas seemed to take issue with the idea that cockney was a British stereotype as cockney accents were primarily from Southern Britain, to which I pointed out that a stereotype being regional does not exclude it from being a national stereotype, the same way that McCree is a stereotypical American cowboy is not changed by the fact that cowboys are primarily from the Western region of the country.

Basically, everyone took issue with immunitas calling it discrimination, not the idea of accents in and of themselves. Blizzard adding some more accent diversity into the game would actually be interesting, and a good conversation to have, much like the body diversity, giving some spotlights to some less common portrayals of national accents or archetypes beyond the most common (cowboys, monks, cockney accents) could be a good thing.

Much like the body diversity though, I consider it a secondary criticism, and will still buy the game even if they don't do it, much like I was still planning to buy the game before Zarya was announced.

Also, please don't try to paraphrase me in the future if you are going to do such a poor job of it.

Well no, Cockney is associated with a commoner from a specific area of London, it's a very specific stereotype, with the majority of London not having that accent, never mind "Southern Britain".

It doesn't matter, to the rest of the world it is still a stereotype associated with Britain, just like McCree being a stereotypical American cowboy despite the fact that cowboys were limited to the West in a specific time period and McCree's clothing being specific to the Texas, New Mexico area. Or how Monks certainly only make up a small minority of the population of Tibet, but they are still associated with the country as a whole.

The accent is associated with British culture, it doesn't represent ALL British culture, but it is still emblematic to the point that when someone hears that accent, they are more likely to think, "oh that character is meant to be British" they likely aren't going to think, "oh that character is from a specific social class from an area of London".

I don't know why you insist on being so pedantic over this, you are right that the cockney accent is not representative of all British people, not even most British people, but it is a facet of the culture that those outside of it recognize as something often used as cultural shorthand when a character is being portrayed as distinctly British. The same way you stick a cowboy hat on an American character to immediately distinguish them as an American despite the fact that very few Americans wear cowboy hats all the time.

 

[inmunitas]

It doesn't matter, to the rest of the world it is still a stereotype associated with Britain, just like McCree being a stereotypical American cowboy despite the fact that cowboys were limited to the West in a specific time period and McCree's clothing being specific to the Texas, New Mexico area. Or how Monks certainly only make up a small minority of the population of Tibet, but they are still associated with the country as a whole.

The accent is associated with British culture, it doesn't represent ALL British culture, but it is still emblematic to the point that when someone hears that accent, they are more likely to think, "oh that character is meant to be British" they likely aren't going to think, "oh that character is from a specific social class from an area of London".

I don't know why you insist on being so pedantic over this, you are right that the cockney accent is not representative of all British people, not even most British people, but it is a facet of the culture that those outside of it recognize as something often used as cultural shorthand when a character is being portrayed as distinctly British. The same way you stick a cowboy hat on an American character to immediately distinguish them as an American despite the fact that very few Americans wear cowboy hats all the time.

That's not really the same thing though, what if they where to have Trevor from GTA5 as the stereotypical American character?

 

[Gladion]

I understand that variety even in visual character design is a good thing but isn't this character just a lazy archetype? "Buff Female Russian Bodybuilder"?

Eh, technically true, but you have to keep in mind that these fast-paced multiplayer shooters with many different character classes depend on character models being instantly recognizable. If you're up against three enemies who are all shooting at you, you don't want to spend the slightest fraction of a second trying to figure out which is which. You want to go straight for the medic or the sniper or whatever. For her being russian, well...

Despite the occasional claim that Zarya is a a stereotype, people are having a hard time finding many examples of characters like her in games.

Not a gaming stereotype, but a general cultural stereotype that stems all the way back from soviet times and their female olympic teams, if you remember that. Not bastardized too much in gaming, but whenever women come up in fiction that are physically exceptionally strong, you mostly get Russians(often named Olga), sometimes Germans. If it's a medieval setting, always vikings. I personally would've liked her to be black or even asian, just to mess with that archetype a little more, but as I said, these characters need to be archetypical, otherwise the game wouldn't work. So in this type of game, I'd give her a pass.

CAPTCHA: yes, sir.

 

[theNater]

Not "you" as in "you personally", but "you have" as an expression as in "you have for example".

Oh, I see. That first sentence was a bit confusing, and for a moment I thought you'd gone full on conspiracy theorist. Thanks for clearing that up; back to the post!

So you end up with what you had prior to Zarya...

What we had prior to Zarya is exactly what I was complaining about. Your claim is that criticizing Widowmaker is going to get us to a situation just like the one that produced Widowmaker. Not only does that fail to support the idea that criticizing a character is a call for the avoidance of that character, it doesn't even support the idea that it may be accidental fallout.

 

[inmunitas]

What we had prior to Zarya is exactly what I was complaining about. Your claim is that criticizing Widowmaker is going to get us to a situation just like the one that produced Widowmaker. Not only does that fail to support the idea that criticizing a character is a call for the avoidance of that character, it doesn't even support the idea that it may be accidental fallout.

From what I understand Blizzard were already trying to address criticism of "hyper-sexualised" female characters and "diversity", or have I got that wrong?

 

[theNater]

From what I understand Blizzard were already trying to address criticism of "hyper-sexualised" female characters and "diversity", or have I got that wrong?

You are indeed correct, and while attempting to address those criticisms, they not only produced Widowmaker, but also made her one of the four characters featured in the cinematic trailer. Clearly, those criticisms did not dissuade them from producing characters like Widowmaker.

 

[inmunitas]

From what I understand Blizzard were already trying to address criticism of "hyper-sexualised" female characters and "diversity", or have I got that wrong?

You are indeed correct, and while attempting to address those criticisms, they not only produced Widowmaker, but also made her one of the four characters featured in the cinematic trailer. Clearly, those criticisms did not dissuade them from producing characters like Widowmaker.

But what's "wrong" with Widowmaker? My initial comment was in regards to the implication that the design of Widowmaker was somehow "pandering to teenage boys".

 

[theNater]

But what's "wrong" with Widowmaker? My initial comment was in regards to the implication that the design of Widowmaker was somehow "pandering to teenage boys".

Widowmaker's design pandering to teenage boys is not a problem for me. I don't know where you got that idea; I believe a game like this can pander to lots of different people.

I find her a little boring, because I can find curvy, leggy women in tight, cleavage-showing outfits in lots of games. As such, if it were a choice between that and something more like Zarya, I'd take the Zarya. Fortunately, we can have both, so there's no problem.

 

[inmunitas]

But what's "wrong" with Widowmaker? My initial comment was in regards to the implication that the design of Widowmaker was somehow "pandering to teenage boys".

Widowmaker's design pandering to teenage boys is not a problem for me. I don't know where you got that idea; I believe a game like this can pander to lots of different people.

I find her a little boring, because I can find curvy, leggy women in tight, cleavage-showing outfits in lots of games. As such, if it were a choice between that and something more like Zarya, I'd take the Zarya. Fortunately, we can have both, so there's no problem.

The point I was trying to make was that Widowmaker's design and those liker her are not "pandering to teenage boys", I don't see how people can even come to that conclusion.

 

[theNater]

The point I was trying to make was that Widowmaker's design and those liker her are not "pandering to teenage boys", I don't see how people can even come to that conclusion.

Let me go meta on you for a minute. You think Widowmaker's design is fine because it's not pandering. I think Widowmaker's design is fine because I don't mind pandering. Given that we both think it's fine, why does it matter whether it's actually pandering or not?

 

[EternallyBored]

It doesn't matter, to the rest of the world it is still a stereotype associated with Britain, just like McCree being a stereotypical American cowboy despite the fact that cowboys were limited to the West in a specific time period and McCree's clothing being specific to the Texas, New Mexico area. Or how Monks certainly only make up a small minority of the population of Tibet, but they are still associated with the country as a whole.

The accent is associated with British culture, it doesn't represent ALL British culture, but it is still emblematic to the point that when someone hears that accent, they are more likely to think, "oh that character is meant to be British" they likely aren't going to think, "oh that character is from a specific social class from an area of London".

I don't know why you insist on being so pedantic over this, you are right that the cockney accent is not representative of all British people, not even most British people, but it is a facet of the culture that those outside of it recognize as something often used as cultural shorthand when a character is being portrayed as distinctly British. The same way you stick a cowboy hat on an American character to immediately distinguish them as an American despite the fact that very few Americans wear cowboy hats all the time.

That's not really the same thing though, what if they where to have Trevor from GTA5 as the stereotypical American character?

Now I'm not even sure what you are talking about at this point, why the hell are you comparing Tracer to Trevor, and even if Trevor was a stereotypical American portrayal, so what, are you saying a cockney accent is somehow comparable to reprehensible psychopath as far as character traits go?

Trevor has some American stereotypes associated with him, mostly negative, but that's the nature of GTA protagonists in general, Tracer is only similar in so far as she she has a couple of traits that mark her as British, mostly the accent, but she is treated as a general good guy otherwise, even her accent is seemingly there to make her sound upbeat and positive.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that a cockney accent is convenient shorthand for immediately identifying a character as a certain nationality (British) despite your attempts at nitpicking.

It feels like you are having a different conversation from everyone else, like that whole discrimination thing, where everyone was talking about how what you said was an incorrect way to use that term, and you somehow twisted that into quoting me in another thread trying to make it look like I was laughing off the idea of having multiple characters of the same nationality with different accents.

Am I going to find this post quoted in another thread with you asserting that I now hate British people or something? It's getting hard to keep up as at this point I don't even think we are having the same conversation, and judging by the Nater in this thread, and others in other threads, this seems to be a common problem at this point.

 

[inmunitas]

snip

Perhaps. Thank you for the clarification though.

 

[Lightknight]

While true, it's still note-worthy. She's "just" something that doesn't show up very often, if at all.

To be fair, they rarely show up in person too. I'd say she's about as common as girls her build are in real life and a fair bit prettier.

True, heavily-muscled, athletic women aren't terribly common in real life. Neither are heavily-muscled, athletic men.

They are far more common. In my office alone there are three muscle-bound men and zero muscle-bound women. That's not to say that women can't obtain muscle-bound status, it's just not nearly as common a goal for women. My only intention in bringing this out is that this is incredibly niche.

If they wanted to do another body type it would be better served to appeal to the more slender variety than this. I don't think the body-type diversity cries are to cater to the unrealistic so much as just not only catering to the big-busted wide hipped type.

What's with this bizarre insistence that the people complaining to Blizzard about body diversity or whatever don't have a stake in playing the game, same as anybody else? Are "SJWs" not "real" gamers or anything? I mean, I obviously care, as do many in this thread. Do we not "count"?

What? Why are you bringing SJWs into this? My emphasis was on this catering to a very niche demand. I seriously doubt that there's a significant number of women out there that want to play as captain thunder thighs here. Maybe if her legs were also sculpted like her upper body but instead this one just looks gross. Like a woman that only had time to sculpt her upper body but let all those protein shakes go to her thighs. This would be the equivalent of someone calling beer-gut/love handles on a male character a positive step towards body-type diversity.

Yes, both represent more diversity in body type but there are far more regular body types that aren't being catered to and some body types aren't really ones we want even if they're diverse.

Yes, yes, you are technically correct. You can view her character model. Just like you can view the character model for any random floating gun FPS protag on occasion.

Doesn't remove the fact that said types of blank, everyman characters (whose race/gender I'm repeatedly assured doesn't matter) tend to be scruffy white males. Making Chell "note-worthy".

*GASP* You mean to tell me that the protagonist of games tend to align themselves with the largest demographic segment that plays those games? That's simply shocking. Why in the world would the majority ever be the most catered to?!!!

Forgive the sarcasm but it's really not shocking. This is true with all of American media. If you look at median in China or India their work also aligns with their own relative demographics.

There is no moral imperative to cater to smaller demographics over the largest demographic of consumers. That would be as silly as giving the smallest voting segments more votes just because they've been outvoted for so long by the majority.

I'm all for diversity when we can choose our protagonist. Overwatch being one such title. But when the protagonist is a single character then I'm not going to pretend to be shocked when it reflects the most common gamer there is because like voting for elections, we also vote in gaming with our money. While a dollar of mine doesn't count (and shouldn't count) for more than a dollar spent by any other individual. In mass it should make a difference if the vast majority of your target audience is white and male. Thankfully, just like literature and movies we now have a lower budget indie scene that can afford to cater to smaller demographics. The things that succeed will start to bleed into mainstream. That's how niche catering works.

Your argument that niche markets deserve more to be catered to is both racist/sexist itself and isn't unlike demanding that stocking companies make their entire stocking line ball-friendly for the few men that wear them even though doing so is at the cost of comfort to women who wear them.

I'd say the current AAA market is doing a fantastic job with character builders and all the games they're putting out with no stable main character. People who don't recognize titles like Skyrim or Saints Row as a win for diversity just aren't seeing it when it happens.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

My only intention in bringing this out is that this is incredibly niche.

If they wanted to do another body type it would be better served to appeal to the more slender variety than this. I don't think the body-type diversity cries are to cater to the unrealistic so much as just not only catering to the big-busted wide hipped type.

So, you think the people asking for more body-type diversity would be better served by asking for a body type closer to what already exists, because it's "more realistic" in a sci-fi game that prominently feature ultra-roided dwarves, giant robots, and two-story tall robot suits.

What's with this bizarre insistence that the people complaining to Blizzard about body diversity or whatever don't have a stake in playing the game, same as anybody else? Are "SJWs" not "real" gamers or anything? I mean, I obviously care, as do many in this thread. Do we not "count"?

What? Why are you bringing SJWs into this? My emphasis was on this catering to a very niche demand. I seriously doubt that there's a significant number of women out there that want to play as captain thunder thighs here. Maybe if her legs were also sculpted like her upper body but instead this one just looks gross. Like a woman that only had time to sculpt her upper body but let all those protein shakes go to her thighs. This would be the equivalent of someone calling beer-gut/love handles on a male character a positive step towards body-type diversity.

Yes, both represent more diversity in body type but there are far more regular body types that aren't being catered to and some body types aren't really ones we want even if they're diverse.

Yes, they are catering to a "very niche" demand that's fairly vocal, as you'd know by reading this thread, by allotting them 7.1% of character designs.

By the way, the "but she's ugly" argument doesn't really help. It brings to mind that the only thing you care about female character models is whether or not you find them attractive.

Yes, yes, you are technically correct. You can view her character model. Just like you can view the character model for any random floating gun FPS protag on occasion.

Doesn't remove the fact that said types of blank, everyman characters (whose race/gender I'm repeatedly assured doesn't matter) tend to be scruffy white males. Making Chell "note-worthy".

*GASP* You mean to tell me that the protagonist of games tend to align themselves with the largest demographic segment that plays those games? That's simply shocking. Why in the world would the majority ever be the most catered to?!!!

Hence, making Chell, the rare female everyman silent protagonist, and her resulting popularity, note-worthy. Thank you for proving my point.

*snip*
I'd say the current AAA market is doing a fantastic job with character builders and all the games they're putting out with no stable main character. People who don't recognize titles like Skyrim or Saints Row as a win for diversity just aren't seeing it when it happens.

"Games that let you make whatever character you want can be a win for diversity. Why are people still asking for games that don't to feature more types of characters?"

 

[Lightknight]

My only intention in bringing this out is that this is incredibly niche.

If they wanted to do another body type it would be better served to appeal to the more slender variety than this. I don't think the body-type diversity cries are to cater to the unrealistic so much as just not only catering to the big-busted wide hipped type.

So, you think the people asking for more body-type diversity would be better served by asking for a body type closer to what already exists, because it's "more realistic" in a sci-fi game that prominently feature ultra-roided dwarves, giant robots, and two-story tall robot suits.

No, by slender I don't mean the huge bust and butt variety with a tiny waist. What is generally wanted is the thin but not voluptuous, the tough and grizzled but not sexy, or the plain. They generally just want avatars they can better identify with in the same way we have a dime a dozen of those ourselves.

What isn't necessarily wanted is thunder-thigh-girl with a muscular upper body. If you agree that hulking muscle girls are rare, then you have no idea how much rarer a fat on the bottom and incredibly toned on top is. Basically have to have the worst genetics ever and maybe inject collagen in the legs to get that combo. Maybe a serious medical condition?

Their resources would have been better served tackling a Jade-esque character that is an average woman but not oversexualized. Think about the current really popular female characters that are held up as golden standards. Jade, the new Lara Croft, Ellie, Faith, Jill Valentine and even Chell. These are all basically average women that just haven't been all gussied up for the prom. Attractive but not bombshells. In shape and competent. Believe it or not, but both sexes like more attractive avatars. It's just that the current body type over does it towards a man's fantasy rather than necessarily a woman's view of beauty.

The main call is against oversexualization, not a demand to get a manish thunder-thigh character. Don't get me wrong, that is a demand that exists, but either only just to see it done because of some sort of imagined self-righteous belief that it deserves to exist or out of an incredibly niche desire to specifically play as a man they slapped breasts on, pretty colors, and made the face more feminine. Body diversity would require the body type to be different than existing body types. Instead, this body type exists all over the place and the only difference here is that the same body type is also a female.

Yes, they are catering to a "very niche" demand that's fairly vocal, as you'd know by reading this thread, by allotting them 7.1% of character designs.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm not referring to people who are asking for different body types as the niche group. Hell, I want more variety myself if you'd only hear me out far enough and I don't see this character as a negative so much as a missed opportunity. What I'm referring to are those that would specifically want this body type in particular to play as if they were given a wider range of options. Studies on the avatar selected generally skew to the more traditional yet attractive body type.

Here's an excellent article on the subject: http://www.themarysue.com/what-women-want-in-female-video-game-protagonists/

Females want their avatar to be attractive, but they also want them to be realistic human beings rather than sex craved caricatures. If they're going to be warriors, they want appropriate plate mail for protection, not a chain mail bikini. If they're running from zombies, they want a character that has running shoes, not stilettos. I get that entirely.

Men have an advantage because we view both boyish features and rugged manliness as attractive and desirable features. This is why we're perfectly fine playing with an ugly character like John Marston from Red Dead Redemption without batting an eye. We also don't generally mind over exaggeration because men don't have the commonly exaggerated features that women have. Men are basically praised for their musculature (toneness or bulkiness) or their face (boyishly or ruggedly handsome with "dreamy" eyes). Women are commonly praised for a wider variety of their body. Legs, butt, breasts and many of the other features that are specific to femininity.

If men had something like a larger right hand that was deemed as making us look more attractive then our protagonists would have an exaggerated larger right hand unless the point of the story was a weakling->hero story like we do have.

By the way, the "but she's ugly" argument doesn't really help. It brings to mind that the only thing you care about female character models is whether or not you find them attractive.

Oh, she's not ugly. I didn't say that. My point is that while this is certainly a less common body type, it doesn't actually appeal to the people asking for diversity as much. They instead met one of the smallest demographic's requests. It's not awful, at least they get something, but like I said, the overall wish is just a non-exaggerated female which this is not.

Yes, yes, you are technically correct. You can view her character model. Just like you can view the character model for any random floating gun FPS protag on occasion.

Doesn't remove the fact that said types of blank, everyman characters (whose race/gender I'm repeatedly assured doesn't matter) tend to be scruffy white males. Making Chell "note-worthy".

*GASP* You mean to tell me that the protagonist of games tend to align themselves with the largest demographic segment that plays those games? That's simply shocking. Why in the world would the majority ever be the most catered to?!!!

Hence, making Chell, the rare female everyman silent protagonist, and her resulting popularity, note-worthy. Thank you for proving my point.

The cake and companion cube are the far more popular "characters" from that game. Is there a point you want to make with them too?

The game was an entirely new thing. Something we'd never seen before and slapped into a bundle of other great games as if it were just a bonus (because Valve had no idea it would be that popular). Chell, like Gordon Freemon, is a non-character. They're great because we can place our own thoughts into them with absolutely no interference from them when they open their mouths to say something we would never say and break the illusion that they are our avatar. The writer of the article I linked above was both wrong and right when she spoke about Chell. Chell was only all of those things because SHE was playing the game. Maybe someone else who wasn't able to solve the puzzled and got frustrated and quit the game would think of Chell as any other number of adjectives.

What this tells us is that we don't like our protagonists to take us out of control. I mean, you had no idea that you could even see Chell in the game. She might as well have been a dog or a stalk of celery. At least Gordon Freemon was spoken to regularly and addressed for who he was.

Portal and Half Life are games that were popular for what they did. For the mechanics they implemented. Their protagonists were dragged to fame along with it and people are only using Chell as a point post-fact.

"Games that let you make whatever character you want can be a win for diversity. Why are people still asking for games that don't to feature more types of characters?"

You put this in quotes and phrased it with incredibly bad syntax. What point are you trying to make?

I'm saying that the AAA market is making huge strides in accommodating everyone. Want to be a fat, ugly, old woman in a game? Play Skyrim or any of the games with a customizer like that. These are great and are under-valued merely because there is no stable character that you have to play as. But claiming that diverse body types don't exist is pretty dishonest for this reason. Character customization has only gotten better and better and has led to a decent variety.

I honestly don't think there's even a body type you can't make in Saints Row:

http://www.abload.de/img/2011-11-21_00002um823.jpg

When this sort of stuff is ignored or passed over, it makes it look like people aren't asking for equal representation. They're instead asking for games in which their desired body type is the only option where other people have to play as them too. Or maybe a number of very limited characters. If that's the demand, then whether or not they represent a significant demographic of the consumer base comes far more into play. In a lot of the AAA market space they simply don't represent anywhere close to the majority and if there's only four or so selectable characters then catering to them means not catering to the larger groups.

As I said, imagine if a lot of people started to demand that pantyhose be made more ball-friendly to accommodate the men who like to wear them. That's not going to happen because women are the majority consumers of the product and making the product less enjoyable for the largest consumer market just isn't going to happen. They may instead make a different or smaller line to cater to a niche market.

That being said. Tomb Raider was a fantastic game. I didn't particularly like playing as what appeared to be a far weaker character but I got over that in the game. It also sold very well from what I'm told and she wasn't oversexualized. So maybe if they do the character right then we simply won't give a damn.