Next Fire Emblem Expanding Casual Options, Dropping Breakable Weapons

[Silk_Sk]

Breakable weapons is what turned me away from the franchise. I got a title for the Gamecube a while back and I did what I usually do in a game with crafting elements, and craft the best weapon I could. When I finally got my dream weapon, it broke after three battles. Needless to say, I gave a nice hearty "fuck you" to the whole franchise and anyone who recommended it to me. I still don't understand the appeal or reason for such a system.

 

[Fox12]

If they're optional, then fine.

But breaking the game in two? Removing mountains? Your characters revive after each TURN? Jesus, there's casual, and then there's "I don't want to play video games." Why don't they add a super casual mode where you just watch the cut scenes, and manually decide who bumps uglies with who? They can call it a "movie."

I loved the last game, and the series was in desperate need of innovation, but I don't think I like this change.

 

[SupahEwok]

I don't remember if we could craft weapons in Awakening, but if we can in this game, I can't wait to craft my unbreakable weapon of super doom.

Still, what does rub me the wrong way is the games story split up into two games. Great so I'm gonna have to shell out $80 for the complete experience, thanks Nintendo!

Two at first there will be a third version later on (yeah it rubs me the wrong way as well).

...a THIRD?! $120 for the complete game Nintendo!? REALLY? Oh come ON.

Y'all are over-reacting a tad. Its already been announced that in Japan, you'll be able to buy the other campaign as DLC for a hefty discount: the new game costs 4700 yen (40 USD), while the second campaign as DLC costs 2000 yen (16/17 USD). Supposedly, both games are full campaigns, which would put them at the 25-30 mission range. Since the games diverge at around Chapter 6, that's around 20 or so different missions with different units, and different playstyles. (Black is supposed to be more difficult, with harder objectives and scarcer resources)

Of course, that's in theory. It remains to be seen if such corners are cut as: A) Using the same maps across both campaigns, with the player just starting on the other side, depending on campaign, B) Having most units not be faction specific and be recruitable in both campaigns, or C) Having the ending threads of both campaigns converge and share the last few chapters.

OT: This is the news, the way I see it:

Mixed news: next FE will have SOME units that can change terrain, ie add bridges, remove mountain tiles. I say mixed because the Siliconera article makes the distinction of saying that its the Royal Family members that have these Dragon Pulse skills. From the looks of the preview trailers and art, there looks to be 4 playable family members on each side of the game, so they're the only ones with those abilities. That either means a larger amount of mandatory units (BOO) or that while these units are optional, they have unique assets that other units can't provide. Which means that if, say, you've got a Royal Paladin and a Peasant Paladin, you're shooting yourself in the foot by taking along the nonRoyal option. So even if you don't like the Royal character, the game mechanics are disincentivising you to pick another choice. You can also infer that these are characters the developers WANT you to use, because they're integral to the story and they want you to develop an emotional connection towards these characters through the game mechanics. Which I dislike. I don't care for characters being forced on me. Edit: Forgot to mention. I like the idea of being able to affect terrain, that's a good mechanic for the franchise to evolve. I just object to it being character-specific. Would like to see it being class specific instead.

Bad news: next FE is removing weapon durability, and that doesn't seem to be optional or tied to difficulty, its just being gutted. That's... that's just bad. That's them basically announcing that they've removed the entire damn economy mechanic from the game. Sure, if you started on the series with Awakening, you won't see the problems, because with the open world map you could always just go back and pick up whatever items that you needed, but in older games, most maps did not have shops. Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn had shop mechanics for every map, but the stock changed from map to map. This added a whole dimension to the game on what you'd stock your army with, whether you should spend some extra money now to bank up on a certain weapon you wouldn't know when would next be available, whether you'd opt for an early or late iron to steel transition... basically, a HUGE part of the management aspect of the game was based off of weapon durability. Getting rid of it... that's huge. And not good, because its unlikely that the game will be balanced to compensate for it. Screenshots already show that weapons seem to be plentiful and character inventory doesn't seem to be restricted to the 2 or maybe 3 slots necessary to ensure that interesting choices would still be forced to be made. MAYBE the money pool will be limited that you won't be able to outfit your whole army with Silver Weapons, but if you're just able to get a few then you can just give them to high Def units and let them clean the maps out by themselves.

Dumb news: next FE will have optional "phoenix mode" that will revive units the turn after they die. I mean, I know its optional, but Christ, what's the point in playing the game with this on? It isn't like FE has ever had particularly great story, the best its ever been is "pretty good," (Blazing Sword, Path of Radiance) ranging down to "pretty ugh." (Parts of Radiant Dawn and lots of Awakening) There's a distinction between lowering the barriers to entry for a game for newcomers, and giving them the option to not grow at all. I played FE7, the first one released in the US, when I was 10. I beat it. I had to develop my tactical thinking and learn the game to do so. That was good for me. And you know what, I'd probably have had an easier time with Casual Mode, it would've been a gentler introduction. I don't think there's any shame in its inclusion. But CONTINUING to lower the bar, frankly, has split the FE audience, which is what you can see with Intelligent Systems trying to make 2 different games out of this iteration of the franchise: White for, honestly, the casuals, and Black for the hardcore. It remains to be seen if this will be a success or not, but you can see it now: if one version outperforms the other, then it makes no sense to continue to make 2 games per iteration. And with the cutting of Weapon Durability on both sides, across all difficulties, AND with weapon weight and the magic triangle already cut in previous iterations, its obvious which side the devs are currently favoring.

If Casualization of this series wins out, there'll be little reason for those who enjoy the FE gameplay to hang on other than for the story. And I disliked the turn the writing took for Awakening: All the characters are one-dimensional. (This guy likes candy! He really likes candy! Don't you understand, HE WILL DO ANYTHING FOR CANDY! And this guy, noone ever remembers him, harhar! Isn't it SO FUNNY how noone remembers him. And look, we have a bookish NERD. She's SO NERD. She wants to quantify everything she sees! And this girl hates everybody! Look at her cast a hex! AND OMG SHE'S DRESSED LIKE A STRIPPER AND SHE'S GOT THE HAWTS FOR THE PLAYER CHARACTER, OH YOU LIKE THAT DON'T YOU!!! AREN'T WE SUCH A DIVERSE AND INTERESTING CAST OF CHARACTERS.) Main characters don't ever seem to face hardship or setbacks unless there's DRAMA afoot. (And the DRAMA must always be super obvious and overwrought! FEEL! FEEL, DAMN YOU! DON'T YOU KNOW YOU SHOULD BE HAVING FEELS RIGHT NOW?! Thank you, now go back to your waifus) And oh, has it been 5 minutes since the player created character has received Love and Adoration? YOU ARE SO WONDERFUL. EVERYONE LOVES YOU. YOU ARE SO SMART. EVERYONE WANTS TO HAVE YOUR CHILDREN. AND WE HAVE ALL THE STEREOTYPES AND SEXUAL FETISHES YOU COULD EVER WANT FOR WISH FULFILLMENT. WAIFUS! WAIFUS FOR EVERYONE!

Ahem. Sorry, I didn't intend to start a rant, but once you open the floodgates... Anyway. Its POSSIBLE that weapons will be rebalanced in the face of not being in danger of running out. (Doubtful, as screenshots indicate that their stats have not changed and you can see characters loaded to the gills with all the metal stick they could want.) Its POSSIBLE that developmental woes forced the degrade in writing quality. (Actually possible, the fact that BREEDING was such a big mechanic meant that characters had to be able to hitch up with a wide pool of other characters, and its tough to convincingly portray a single character being able to find TWOO WUV with 8 different people if there's any nuance involved whatsoever. So shallowness carries the day. We'll see if it was that or if the devs just hired on a bunch of new writers that just suck.) We'll see what happens with the Japanese release. But I've gone from feeling excitement to trepidation.

 

[Frankster]

As someone who only got recently introduced to Fire Emblem on the insistence of a friend...

Good riddance to breakable weapons. That was my biggest gripe about the series, I don't see wtf is the point with having it and found it ridiculous having my characters juggle between identical weapons.

I know historically Japan has massive impurities in their local iron ores, making for shoddy materials, hence the necessity of having to fold "a thousand times" for katanas, but come the fuck on the weapons in FE were seemingly all made out of glass. About time they figured out how to take care of their weapons and maintain them in between battles.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Whatever, can't exactly say they were that necessary to the series to begin with. Easy modes are fine, though I doubt that'll keep people from complaining.

 

[Denamic]

Weapon durability is honestly the least favorite aspect of the Fire Emblem games. It just adds an aspect of inventory management and a gold sink without really adding anything in return. Sure, limited usability of powerful weapons is fair, but I feel there's better way to do it than forcing you to go through endless inventory management tedium.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Well, guess my main team doesn't need Armsthrift for each and every one of them anymore.

 

[Souplex]

Fire Emblem: Awakening was about <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/122726-Fire-Emblem-Awakening-Breaks-Franchise-Sales-Records>as big of a hit as the Fire Emblem franchise has ever had. The arguable source of its success? A collection of new features, modernizations and play modes aimed directly at making the franchise more palatable to wider audiences. Now it's looking like it's follow-up, the <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/139457-Next-Fire-Emblem-Coming-to-3DS>recently announced Fire Emblem If, will be pushing even harder to court less hardcore players.

I'm not sure how big of a contributing factor that is compared to the fact that it was the first Fire Emblem game that actually had an advertising budget in the US.

Breakable weapons are interesting for balance when you have a more linear game like the better Fire Emblems, but if you have that sandbox stuff, it's annoying. My miserly nature ensures that everyone uses iron weapons into the endgame normally, so this will be a big help for me.
http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=081312
http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=072709

 

[vagabondwillsmile]

Next Fire Emblem Expanding Casual Options, Dropping Breakable Weapons

[...] it still smells a bit to me like fixing something that's not broken.

Source: Famitsu via Permalink[/B]

Exactly. Awakening is as close to a perfect JRPG experience as I can recall playing apart from Chrono Trigger. As long as the casual stuff is optional, that's fine I suppose. But, resurecting after each turn? That's just silly. Where's the consequence for your actions/mistakes in battle if you don't at least lose that member for the remainder fight in which they "fainted(?)" ? That's not casual mechanics - that's the most blatant of hand holding. If a gamer is that lazy, why not just watch someone else play it on YT then? That's what set the game apart from FF Tactics (which I also love). You can't just Phoenix Down your way through a fight.

As someone who only got recently introduced to Fire Emblem on the insistence of a friend...

Good riddance to breakable weapons. That was my biggest gripe about the series, I don't see wtf is the point with having it and found it ridiculous having my characters juggle between identical weapons.

I know historically Japan has massive impurities in their local iron ores, making for shoddy materials, hence the necessity of having to fold "a thousand times" for katanas, but come the fuck on the weapons in FE were seemingly all made out of glass. About time they figured out how to take care of their weapons and maintain them in between battles.

On WEAPONS: Knowing you have one use left with a hammer as a General is bearing down on you, adds an element of excitement and suspense (what if you miss?!). And having a flying axe at the ready for the Wyvern Lord behind him makes you feel awesome.

So, I saw it as more than busy work. I would prepare an order of weapons for different purposes for different party members and such, and plan on what would break. If I got sloppy with it, I could get my ass handed to me, especially in Lunatic. As far as I'm concerned, breaking weapons is essential to the Fire Emblem style of gameplay. Without that mechanic, I fear the strategy to be a lesser version of itself. I'm playing this no matter what, but if they end up having a game mode WITH breakable weapons, that's the only mode I'll play.

 

[Shock and Awe]

This sounds fucking fantastic to be honest. I've been playing since Sacred Stones and this looks pretty great. The diverting story is going to be interesting and honestly I am not to heartbroken over weapons no longer breaking (though it does remove a bit of strategy) and as long as casual and "phoenix" modes are only options I think they're great for pulling in more players.

 

[Hades]

I'm fine with the weapons no longer being breakable if they handle it properly.

Phoenix mode just confuses me. There's making the game accessible (adding casual mode) and then there's removing the point of the game. FE is a strategy RPG, what's the point of trying to appeal to people who don't like any strategy to the point where even casual mode turns them off? If even the ability to blindly kamikaze everyone to victory is not enough then those people will never want to pick up a strategy game to begin with. What's the point of trying to draw those people in?

 

[Cryselle]

Honestly, all I care about is that there is still a difficulty that I find enjoyable.

In FE:Awakening, it was Hard/Classic. I did a no-death Lunatic Classic run, but found the strategies required to do it to be a bit too specific to actually be 'fun'. However, anything easier than Hard/Classic was too easy to feel good. That was the magic of FE:A, your ability to tailor the difficulty to exactly what you personally found to be enjoyable.

The existence of modes far too easy for me to consider playing doesn't hurt me in any way, so long as /my/ mode is good.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I haven't really played any of the series much. I do think that Phoenix mode sounds pretty lame unless enemy units also revived every turn, then it would get interesting. Its fine for those that want it either way.

Unbreakable weapons is something I will always get behind in any game. Or at least if the weapons can be repaired efficiently or at all I'm okay. I hate when you have gear break and its just gone, and especially in Oblivion where at high levels you needed to repair ALL your gear after every OP goblin touches you.

You'd have to carry around a hundred repair hammers, because who doesn't love BREAKABLE REPAIR HAMMERS? Eventually you learned how to not use the wooden end and could use one permanently but seriously it was the most idiotic system for gear wearing in any game I've ever played and made Skyrim immeasurably better. In that one aspect at least.

I am never a fan of the multiple versions release of something like a video game. It barely works in Pokemon due to the inherit focus on trading. Its viewed there as something slightly more palatable than a blatant cash grab.

Here in FE? That remains to be seen.

 

[Loop Stricken]

EVERYONE WANTS TO HAVE YOUR CHILDREN. AND WE HAVE ALL THE STEREOTYPES AND SEXUAL FETISHES YOU COULD EVER WANT FOR WISH FULFILLMENT. WAIFUS! WAIFUS FOR EVERYONE!

I really liked Awakening, because waifus.

 

[SuperSuperSuperGuy]

I don't really like the looks of having non-breakable weapons, especially after the removal of weapon weight in Awakening. At this point, there is no reason to use anything other than things like Silver and especially Brave weapons. In other Fire Emblem games, you needed to ration out your powerful weapons such that they didn't weigh down your units and didn't run out before you REALLY needed them. It made your weapon choices way more significant. Siege tomes are also going to need to be totally re-balanced, as well; the main disadvantage to them was their 5 uses. Having an unbreakable 10-range tome could potentially be really overpowered.

I guess the dominant strategy for the new games is going to be throwing and Brave weapons for everyone, all the time, and sword users will be even more underpowered. Well, I guess throwing weapons are already the dominant speedrun strat, but now you can probably outfit everyone with them instead of just whoever your first/best lance/axe user is.

As for Phoenix mode... that just sounds completely unnecessary. I'm okay with Casual mode because it still required some amount of strategy to keep everyone around for the whole battle, and having more units at a given time generally makes things easier. With units that revive, though, especially with the unbreakable weapons, every battle could potentially become a simple Zerg rush. Since there's no fear of losing a unit, even for the rest of the battle, everyone becomes expendable, and you can afford to ascribe to Zapp Brannigan's school of tactics and send wave after wave of your men at the opponent until you win through sheer persistence. I guess Phoenix mode completely defeats the purpose of the game part of the game.

I know that it's totally optional and I don't need to use it, and that's fine; I don't intend to. I also fully understand that it's aimed at casual players, but wasn't that what Casual mode was for?

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

That said, I will admit that removing the breakable weapons does somewhat rub me the wrong way. Granted, weapons in Awakening were easy to replace, so this could just be seen as removing that bit of busy work. Even so, it still smells a bit to me like fixing something that's not broken. What do you guys think?

Let's be honest, weapon degradation was two things:

1. A gold sink.
2. A hassle.

I dealt with it, because I like Fire Emblem in general, but having weapons degrade was nothing more than a hassle for the most part. The only possible challenge that the system could be said to provide is in the form of rare/expensive weapons, but even that's gone as recently as Awakening. I can understand the value in having weapons degrade/break in the earlier games where you just have a linear story with finite enemies to kill before there's nothing left to do but watch the credit roll. In a game like Awakening where you can endlessly play and replay missions, and all weapons can be bought and re-bought, having to keep track of weapon degradation is just a hassle.

 

[shrekfan246]

As another person who only got into the franchise with Awakening, I can't say I'll miss breakable weapons.

One of the little things I love the most about the game is that you can name your weapons. That extra bit of personalization kind of loses its weight when your awesome weapon just falls apart in the middle of battle.

Also, everyone acting like the only change to the weapon system will be that they're no longer breakable seems to have incredibly low faith in the developer's ability to actually balance their game around this change. Considering how drastically it will change the dynamic of combat, I find it extremely hard to believe that the developers don't know they'll need to overhaul many other things to make the new system workable.

 

[KenAri]

Kinda shitty about the two-game thing. I get that they're psyched about Awakening's sales, but christ guys, you're not Pokémon yet. They did this two-path thing in Sacred Stones and it was one cartridge.

Sucks about the unbreakable weapons; hopefully that's not in classic mode. I love the decision making of 'I could end this guy here with my Silver Axe, but I might just stick with Steel to save my durability for the Armours I'll fight later-on. Also, Ragnell OP.

Phoenix mode sounds completely pointless. They may as well just have no-gameplay mode, because you could literally just keep ending your turn and let the enemies eventually kill themselves on your invulnerable characters. I honestly can't imagine somebody played Awakening as their first FE and gave up because having to wait until the end of the mission for their waifu to respawn was a deal-breaker.

Pretty hyped for the new game though. Hopefully they keep the 'Skip enemy turns' thing from Awakening, where it'd auto-resolve. By the end of the game, waiting for 70 enemies to move while I moved 1-2 characters per turn was pretty dull.

Plz no timetravel and babies in this game.

 

[Estarc]

While the Phoenix mode sounds like it is almost insultingly patronising, Fire Emblem Awakening had a great story and if there are people out there that need such a mode to experience the new Fire Emblem game's story, then so be it. I won't use it so it does not detract from my gameplay experience. Trying to appeal to more players in a way that does not alienate the players you already have is something I will always support, and Phoenix mode sounds just like that to me. Those of us that want to go hardcore will.

I am ecstatic about the removal of weapon durability. Being forced to use armsthrift on every character who could possibly learn it in Awakening was maddening. You essentially could not give good weapons to characters who did not have this skill, cause they just broke way too fast. While maybe being given the option to go the the merchants and repair your weapons easily would have been an acceptable middle ground, just removing the weapon durability entirely is my personal ideal solution. So happy.

 

[Fox12]

YOU ARE SO WONDERFUL. EVERYONE LOVES YOU. YOU ARE SO SMART. EVERYONE WANTS TO HAVE YOUR CHILDREN.

Uh huh. I'll have you know that my character was female. Therefore, she wanted to have everyone elses children. Don't you just feel silly now?

Honestly, FE never had a powerful plot, and the side characters have always been pretty flat. At least the ones in Awakening were quirky and memorable, if not deep. I was particularly fond of Lucina. Overall, I thought it was a desperately needed improvement in the series.

But these new changes are ridiculous. It's like they're drunk on their new found success, so they're changing everything to see what works. As a long time fan, some of these new changes are starting a disturbing precedent.