Booze Zombie said:
No but the manufacturer should make damn sure that people who aren't fit to use the "fork" shouldn't be able to get hold of it easily.
Sorry for the double post!
Nine States Support Game Industry Against California
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
No but the manufacturer should make damn sure that people who aren't fit to use the "fork" shouldn't be able to get hold of it easily.
Sorry for the double post!
I'm in favour of legal age limits on video games, as it helps parents make informed decisions, however I'm against this law as it's not about that, it's about classifying video games as artless, worthless, lowest common denominator entertainment, and they want to rate ALL games as being inherently of less worth that all books, all movies, all TV and music.
Yes, they want to pass a law saying that for instance, Portal has less value to society than either the new Bieber Album, the latest episode of Celebrity Dancing on Ice, or The Expendables.
Not even that, if passed video games will be ranked as below porn.
Unsurprisingly there's a lot of Hollywood money on the side of ruining video games' status as something of artistic, social or educational merit, as they keep seeing games vastly outselling blockbusters' opening weekends.
Hell at least in Britain most of our politicians know Keith Vaz is an utter twat, it's just a shame that one of the leading supporters of the UK games industry was Lembit Opek, who, while a useful name to know while playing Scrabble, was never really taken seriously.
Yes, they want to pass a law saying that for instance, Portal has less value to society than either the new Bieber Album, the latest episode of Celebrity Dancing on Ice, or The Expendables.
Not even that, if passed video games will be ranked as below porn.
Unsurprisingly there's a lot of Hollywood money on the side of ruining video games' status as something of artistic, social or educational merit, as they keep seeing games vastly outselling blockbusters' opening weekends.
Hell at least in Britain most of our politicians know Keith Vaz is an utter twat, it's just a shame that one of the leading supporters of the UK games industry was Lembit Opek, who, while a useful name to know while playing Scrabble, was never really taken seriously.
why this law is bad is because by putting this ban into law instead of letting store block kids from getting M rated games will cause walmart, target, best buy, and all the other places to stop carrying M games because of the kids that the store reaches to. this will cause game companies to stop creating M rated games which in most cases causes a game to lose what the creators want to get across to the audience.
any one remember Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe? thats the bad games that I'm referring to. think of your favorite M rated games and then imagine that being made to appease the T crowd.
any one remember Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe? thats the bad games that I'm referring to. think of your favorite M rated games and then imagine that being made to appease the T crowd.
Puerto Rico is not a state, it is a territory. How that is different from a state, I do not know, but it is not counted as such.10BIT said:
OT: Yay, my home state backs the game industry (my home state being Washington)! I am so proud.
well the problem is that with movies minors can by any non-pornographic movie(or tv show) or go to watch it in the cinema same with games (but most shops don't sell them the games or movies as part of company policy) but California wants to make it a crime to sell games over the age rating to someone but not for movies but hearing this i see that the supreme courts would only make it if the game is just offensive and doesn't have artistic credit and same for movies which sounds a lot fairer and not damaging to the industry.Jesus Phish said:
This is a very dangerous law, mostly because of how it's worded that grants the government just a tad bit too much power and the damage it can inflict on companies due to the carelessness of one stupid employee. They would refuse to stock the games to avoid that entirely, it might as well be pornographic.
The main problem of this is that developers - pressured by publishers - will refuse to make games that can't return the investment due to it being "too violent". You can kiss Mass Effect 3 goodbye, you can kiss Duke Nukem Forever goodbye -- and it's just about to come out too... you can pretty much kiss anything that doesn't have the power of hugs to defeat theevil misunderstood villain with the handlebar moustache as he tries to kill kidnap make rude gestures do something that people don't approve of.
This is more dangerous than people are willing to realize. And all because of how this stupid law is worded.
I had another post elsewhere, but I had too much fun making said post so... it can't be that good.
The main problem of this is that developers - pressured by publishers - will refuse to make games that can't return the investment due to it being "too violent". You can kiss Mass Effect 3 goodbye, you can kiss Duke Nukem Forever goodbye -- and it's just about to come out too... you can pretty much kiss anything that doesn't have the power of hugs to defeat the
This is more dangerous than people are willing to realize. And all because of how this stupid law is worded.
I had another post elsewhere, but I had too much fun making said post so... it can't be that good.
That's a great idea! We could have zombie Lincoln fight for free speech. Also, Puerto Rico isn't a state, its a US territory.thenumberthirteen said:
This is for everyone who responds to this: Not just the people who don't see what's wrong with it, but the people who believe it's wrong.Jesus Phish said:
Listen to this video (and I highly suggest once just LISTENING without watching, as the images can get distracting, and it really isn't a simple issue, after this you can watch the images which I, personally, don't think add to the audio much at all.):
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/1961-Free-Speech
It's the best written explanation of why this is so bad for us.
Now, ignore any discussion about how other countries have laws that don't allow this and such, because the issue is how video games will be treated in the US, which, like it or not, is the largest market for video games besides probably Japan (get me numbers on this someone, if you can please, it sounds right but I don't have the stats). Besides that, it's not just the issue of will these games get made or not, it's the issue to us, as Americans, of whether we'll be allowed to see these games at all. If this passes, it excludes all games from free speech and puts them under government regulation, essentially giving them leave to ban any company from making or releasing a game they find "objectionable" and block imports of foreign games for the same reason. Furthermore, the risks that companies will be willing and able to take will decrease vastly - if the game is likely to get banned as inappropriate, the company won't even take the risk, because the development time is gone completely.
It doesn't matter if other countries' laws work for them, this is the effect it will have on us, and as a person living in the United States, it will not end well.
Hopefully this has explained it enough for anyone who needs it. If it hasn't, there's certainly always room for further debate, but in general this should be enough to answer all the questions about the case.
It's not about giving M-rated games to kids. It's about criminalizing it. The gaming industry already has a self-regulating arm in the ESRB which rates games and causes retailers to restrict the sale of M-rated material to minors.KnowYourOnion said:
This enforcement is already complied to at an 80% success reading (the highest of any medium, including film, DVD, music and book sales), and is thus proves that gaming is capable of competently censoring itself. If this law passes, it would classify violent gaming as being gratuitous and without artistic merit (porn, basically) because that's the only way it wouldn't be protected from censorship by the first amendment.
This raises problems amongst the gaming public because having games classified as without artistic merit will put a stigma on the medium that is both legally recognized and damaging to the industry. At the same time, other violent medium such as movies, music, and books would face no criminal offense for the sale of ts product to minor, effectively separating games from any other form of expressive medium.
To see a real world example that's already taken place, look to the comic book industry in the 1950s, which was so heavily censored (by the same type of law being levied against gaming), that they weren't even allowed to use the word "zombie," and were left to squander in obscurity for decades before being revived by the early Marvel comics.
That's why the gaming medium hates this law, it will stigmatize the medium, and could possibly send it back decades in progress because of a mistaken belief of a causal correlation between gaming and violence that has already be pinned on (and disprove for) music, comic books, and D&D. It's lazy scapegoating for parents who can't be bothered to educate their children about real world violence, and we're the scapegoats.
Finally someone who sees our side of things!!!Andy Chalk said:
The reason for this of course is simple. We play a violent game. Do we go and murder our friends? NO. We've got quests to do damnit! no time for all that busy busy murdering!
I'll be serious though, it is good to see some people not blaming the easily blameable. Thank you to those 9 states.
Out of curiosity, isn't it already against the law to sell M rated games to minors? I'm guessing it's a similar system to here in Britain. To buy a 16+ rated game (That's mature I think) you either need I.D, a beard, or a gullible parent.
Go figure which one most 12 year olds have.
i have layed out many times why this bill is bad, in other threads and bottom line this bill goes way way beyond banning the sale of video games to minors, it is simply a law that is trying to stop certain types of games being made and to stop stores from carrying them, period.T-Bone24 said:
the fact that this bill is based on the war cry that video games cause violent behavior, which is patently false, it is not the state or the federal governments domain to be a parent, if you do not know what that is a bad thing then god help you.
parents need to do their jobs and stores need to help them but we do not need the government telling stores what games they can carry and telling video games makers what games they can make, especially when this law put a higher standard on video games than is on any other medium books and movies included. this bill seeks to equate violent video games as pornography is the bottom line of it, how many big name chain stores carry pornography exactly?
Jesus Phish said:
FinalFreak16 said:
The issue is not the sale of M rated games to minors. That is a decoy. The real issue is that if the law passes, games will no longer be protected speech under the First Amendment right to free speech. Books are protected, films are protected, music is protected, so why not games? "Because they are interactive." That is such a bullshit reason. Games stores are already doing a good job of keeping mature games out of kids' hands, just like DVD and music stores, not because of some phony law telling them they have to. And it would open the doors to scrapping the free speech privileges of other media, too.KnowYourOnion said:
I swear if this country goes into a civil war over this I am really moving away (at least to Canada)...
This is about about making video games considered obscene and not be protected by the first amendment, not just about preventing sales to minors.FinalFreak16 said:
OT: I am ever so glad we have rational people fighting for us, this will truly be an interesting tussle and I know we'll come on top.