Nintendo continue to protect your eyes from disgusting female form.

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Dragonbums said:
It's only wrong to people who don't know what they are talking about in game development.
Nobody gives a solitary fuck about changes they have to make in the game. Neither the devs, the creative teams, or the people who make the changes. It's part of the job and if you think it's morally wrong there is always the indie scene or you can- you know- not participate in anything creative. Because I hate to break reality to you- this is how it works.
Clearly the developers wanted to develop and release the game in certain way, the way they did in Japan and elsewhere, however they had to change, by whoever orders, the game for NA release. If your implication that noone cares is true then the company is artistically bancrupt.

This happens with literally every medium. The game wasn't 'censored' it was altered. Nobody not a government entity or some nebulous law forced Nintendo's hand to do this. They did it because they wanted to. And if you disagree with it fine take your money elsewhere.
I know. ill repeat myself: "it happens all the time" is not an excuse. Altering the game for a sole reason of single market adoption IS censorship.

No it shouldn't. People who hold this view tend to be the worst creative people out there. Because they are so beholden to their total original idea that they cannot and do not want to consider every changing it until THEY think somehting needs or has to be changed.
This is how you get the Tim Buckleys of the world.
I dont know who Tim Buckleys is, but according to his wikipedia page he was quite popular musician.

Once again, this is NOT a change of the idea, this is a change of the game for a single market. If they wanted to change the idea they would have changed it for all releases, not just NA. They are specifically censoring NA release and not others, thus your argument of "part of developement" does not even apply.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Dragonbums said:
No it shouldn't. People who hold this view tend to be the worst creative people out there. Because they are so beholden to their total original idea that they cannot and do not want to consider every changing it until THEY think somehting needs or has to be changed.
This is how you get the Tim Buckleys of the world.
And the Uwe Bolls and Tameem Antionadeses. Typically the hacks are the ones who scream the loudest because nobody wants to hear them anymore. It is odd how the more professional someone is the better they tend to be at being creative.
 

Dragonbums

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May 9, 2013
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Aiddon said:
Dragonbums said:
No it shouldn't. People who hold this view tend to be the worst creative people out there. Because they are so beholden to their total original idea that they cannot and do not want to consider every changing it until THEY think somehting needs or has to be changed.
This is how you get the Tim Buckleys of the world.
And the Uwe Bolls and Tameem Antionadeses. Typically the hacks are the ones who scream the loudest because nobody wants to hear them anymore. It is odd how the more professional someone is the better they tend to be at being creative.
If you want to go out and do your own thing than sure, go the fuck ahead. But the people crying 'artistic freedom' are nothing but noise at this point. You lose any real control of artistic merit the moment you work in a corporate environment and are asking people to invest millions of dollars to invest in teams, art, production, conceptualization, realization, and execution of your game that may or may not sell well in it's respective regions.
It's only a matter of how much freedom a given company is willing to give. And Nintendo is one of the companies that- for all intents and purposes- leaves the core story of the game very much well intact and put their money into shit that we all know won't sell that well.
I mean, take a look at fucking Bayonetta 2. NOBODY wanted to invest in that game. Nobody and Platinum REALLY wanted this game to be a thing. So their artistic freedom was absolutely stonewalled because nobody wanted to put money into it...except Nintendo. Do you honestly fucking thing that Kamiya and his team gives a shit if the only way to make Bayonetta a reality is to do something as benign as cover up her breast line with everything else intact? Absolutely fucking not.

This is how goddamn stupid this whole argument is.
98% of the game is intact or didn't have the core message it was going for altered. But suddenly we are lamenting the death of creative freedom over a shitty smoke effect filter in one 3 second scene of a very long game.

If you don't like that than maybe you shouldn't work in anything even remotely resembling AA or AAA creative fields because...man, I got a wake up call for you.

But even THEN, unless your some sort of fucking storytelling prodigy; only changing things until YOU feel like it is the recipe for hot garbage.

The whole point of being a creative professional is that you are able to and willing to be as flexible with your ideas and can change and alter a few things here and there for other markets.

The fact that I bring up that Bethesda- upon exporting the game to Japan willingly did a 'Nintendo' by removing any references to nuclear weapons, and even took out a nuke quest was not only met with silence in this thread, but was also ignored by the general gaming community as well shows very clearly how disgustingly transparent the whole thing really is.
Hell, when Bioware outright defended their artistic freedom to include and keep in the trans character in Baldurs Gate and didn't succumb to the 'anti PC' menance that was the gaming community, the same damn people that were shitting on the likes of Capcom and Nintendo for 'succumbing' to Puritans were absolutely FURIOUS that Bioware wasn't going to kowtow to their demands and alter their pure, precious, sacred, holy, original artistic creation to make them happy and take that PC character away.

If your going to champion artistic freedom than I don't want to see any of y'all on the next Activision, Ubisoft or EA article getting mad that they released story telling garbage or that it's broken. That should be okay with you because THIS is how they wanted to release the game in all it's original glory. Therefore telling them, or demanding the corporates for the devs to fix it is in direct violation of their artistic freedom and your being a censorship advocating meanine.
 

Dragonbums

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May 9, 2013
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Strazdas said:
Clearly the developers wanted to develop and release the game in certain way, the way they did in Japan and elsewhere, however they had to change, by whoever orders, the game for NA release. If your implication that noone cares is true then the company is artistically bancrupt.
Nintendo is far from an artistically bankrupt company. So I'm gonna ask you this, Bethesda removed any and all nuke quests and references when exporting Fallout 4 in Japan.
Companies like the CDProjekt Red took out a lot of the execution and blood resulting from violence in their game to better market their product in other regions and they gave so little shits that it hardly made mainstream gaming news.
Are these two companies now devoid of any artistic freedom?

I know. ill repeat myself: "it happens all the time" is not an excuse. Altering the game for a sole reason of single market adoption IS censorship.
There is a reason why it's called localization and not 'censorship' I mean, gaming fans must have it good when they have to reach to the stars to find ANYTHING to feel oppressed about. Now gaming companies doing the same shit they've been doing since gaming was a thing is now considered censorship.

I dont know who Tim Buckleys is, but according to his wikipedia page he was quite popular musician.
He is the Creator of Ctrl+Alt+Delete and notorious for being one of the most creative hacks in the webcomic sphere. He has a particular quirk of not taking any criticism and never altering his original ideas to further better his story based on feedback.
Which lead to one of the most infamously bad webcomics to grace the internet.

Once again, this is NOT a change of the idea,
So what exactly is the issue here? Most devs care about the IDEA of the game being executed. Not how many/ or lack of any tits in a given game.


this is a change of the game for a single market.
If they wanted to change the idea they would have changed it for all releases, not just NA.
So I just want to clarify this statement. You are championing the end of censorship, but at the same time you are completely fine with Nintendo actually forcing a developer to change the very core of the game so long as it applies to every single market the game is to be released in?
It takes an extraordinarily large amount of mental gymnastics to be absolutely disgusted at a company willing to make changes for single (very big, but single) markets but turn around and by okay with a magnitudes worse scenario of artistic suppression simply because they changed it enough times.
That's quite amazing.


They are specifically censoring NA release and not others
Well considering a large majority of the game is very intact and the only thing they altered was titties, at this point if you want to call it 'censorship' that is really your own prerogative.
This is on top of the fact that you don't consider the complete alteration of the original idea behind the game censorship but a few minor game asset changes for different markets censoring. Which is absolute bollocks because creative people care a lot more about keeping the core ideas, themes, and messages of their game intact more so than having to change a dinner plate from pork to beef because a hypothetical Middle East market won't like that.


thus your argument of "part of developement" does not even apply.
Just because you don't know what your talking about doesn't make your statement any more correct.
NOA can't alter the game because they have no access to the internal coding of the game outside of translations. The developers specifically did this on the paychecks of Nintendo to do this for the Western release of the game. They couldn't give two shits.
And again I don't see this same ire and outrage when Western developers do the same thing when they localize to other markets.
But you know, it didn't involve tits so it's okay.
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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SUPER IMPORTANT UPDATE!

Nintendo won't be releasing the hot springs DLC for the western version either.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/05/nintendo_confirms_its_dlc_plans_for_tokyo_mirage_sessions_fe
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I'm sure it's loss is a severe blow to artistic integrity.

Look, snark aside, I've got to ask:

Why do we always lead these discussions with the whole "this game is being censored because they put spats over the panties of an underage character" thing? We always seem to wait until ~50 posts in before stuff like dialogue changes quest lines or whatever show up.

These arguments would go so much better if defenders of the original opened up with "so they changed the dialogue and altered some of the quest lines and characterization. That's a bad. There was also so altering of some outfits, also a bad."

You lead in with the small scale, this character now wears 13 cubic cm more clothing stuff and people aren't going to be well disposed to your follow-ups.

Edit: Side note about the boob-sorceress. It takes effort to make a character less modest than Hyrule Warriors boob-sorceress. Were they deliberately trying to out-Team-Ninja Team Ninja?
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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altnameJag said:
I'm sure it's loss is a severe blow to artistic integrity.

Look, snark aside, I've got to ask:

Why do we always lead these discussions with the whole "this game is being censored because they put spats over the panties of an underage character" thing? We always seem to wait until ~50 posts in before stuff like dialogue changes quest lines or whatever show up.

These arguments would go so much better if defenders of the original opened up with "so they changed the dialogue and altered some of the quest lines and characterization. That's a bad. There was also so altering of some outfits, also a bad."

You lead in with the small scale, this character now wears 13 cubic cm more clothing stuff and people aren't going to be well disposed to your follow-ups.
Well, we don't know if the dialogue or quests are changed because we haven't played the game. Costume changes are immediatly obvious.

Its like when Fatal Frame 5 came out and there was a lot of discussion about the swimsuit remaining in the scene where one of the characters is shown doing a gravure photoshoot. It was an important character developing scene (some claimed). It was a fair bit into the game so until the game was released to some people we had no idea if a potentially story defining change had been made.

Same with the quests in Bravely Default 2 being altered. Until the game was released there was no way to know because someone would actually need to have played both games a fair bit.
 

gyrobot_v1legacy

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altnameJag said:
I'm sure it's loss is a severe blow to artistic integrity.

Look, snark aside, I've got to ask:

Why do we always lead these discussions with the whole "this game is being censored because they put spats over the panties of an underage character" thing? We always seem to wait until ~50 posts in before stuff like dialogue changes quest lines or whatever show up.

These arguments would go so much better if defenders of the original opened up with "so they changed the dialogue and altered some of the quest lines and characterization. That's a bad. There was also so altering of some outfits, also a bad."

You lead in with the small scale, this character now wears 13 cubic cm more clothing stuff and people aren't going to be well disposed to your follow-ups.

Edit: Side note about the boob-sorceress. It takes effort to make a character less modest than Hyrule Warriors boob-sorceress. Were they deliberately trying to out-Team-Ninja Team Ninja?
A man will fight long and hard for a piece of color ribbon. Same as people here who uses fanservice as their bludgeon against censorship.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Dragonbums said:
Nintendo is far from an artistically bankrupt company. So I'm gonna ask you this, Bethesda removed any and all nuke quests and references when exporting Fallout 4 in Japan.
Companies like the CDProjekt Red took out a lot of the execution and blood resulting from violence in their game to better market their product in other regions and they gave so little shits that it hardly made mainstream gaming news.
Are these two companies now devoid of any artistic freedom?
I wouldnt go so far as to claim Nintendo is artistically bancrupt, but they are not the ones that develop this game. Atlus is developing them and Nintendo is publishing them.
No, they are not devoid of any artistic freedom, but their artistic freedom was limited (censored) in these instances.

There is a reason why it's called localization and not 'censorship' I mean, gaming fans must have it good when they have to reach to the stars to find ANYTHING to feel oppressed about. Now gaming companies doing the same shit they've been doing since gaming was a thing is now considered censorship.
Localization means translating the game into local language, sometimes including the voice acting. Changing game features and looks for certain markets are censorship.

Also WTF? where did i say i am being oppressed for this?

Oh and it was always considered censorship. The meaning of the word didnt change.

He is the Creator of Ctrl+Alt+Delete and notorious for being one of the most creative hacks in the webcomic sphere. He has a particular quirk of not taking any criticism and never altering his original ideas to further better his story based on feedback.
Which lead to one of the most infamously bad webcomics to grace the internet.
Well ive never seen that comic so i got no information about this. clearly googling the name lead to wrong result though, so he does not appear to be famous.

So I just want to clarify this statement. You are championing the end of censorship, but at the same time you are completely fine with Nintendo actually forcing a developer to change the very core of the game so long as it applies to every single market the game is to be released in?
It takes an extraordinarily large amount of mental gymnastics to be absolutely disgusted at a company willing to make changes for single (very big, but single) markets but turn around and by okay with a magnitudes worse scenario of artistic suppression simply because they changed it enough times.
That's quite amazing.
You have misunderstood me. I am for game developer (not publisher) changing the game as part of game creation process. I am against game developer changing it out of certain regulatory restrictions or social pressure of certain locales as well as against changing it based on publisher pressure. There is a saying in movie making "studio meddling ruins movies". I think its applicable to publishers for videogames.

Well considering a large majority of the game is very intact and the only thing they altered was titties, at this point if you want to call it 'censorship' that is really your own prerogative.
This is on top of the fact that you don't consider the complete alteration of the original idea behind the game censorship but a few minor game asset changes for different markets censoring. Which is absolute bollocks because creative people care a lot more about keeping the core ideas, themes, and messages of their game intact more so than having to change a dinner plate from pork to beef because a hypothetical Middle East market won't like that.
They had to change a part of the game in order to sell it in US. This is, by definition, censorship. As for the rest see my reply above, you misunderstood me.

Also they also changed dialogue and quest lines, not just visuals that even puritans wouldn't find offensive.
 

Aerosteam

Get out while you still can
Sep 22, 2011
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Wow, that sucks.

We get a cute outfit and Japan only gets a boring bikini.

Still though, I think they're unnecessary changes but I'm not interested in this game so meh.