Nintendo, more than "casual"

[him over there]

Okay so the whole wii thing has started up again because of the Wii U coming out. Most of the things being tossed around are about how Nintendo Wii was never competing with the 360 and PS3 because it was aimed towards casual gamers, which in part is true. I doubt your mother or grandparents bought the wii for anything other than a gimmicky game to play with friends or wii fit.

But look beyond that for a second, who have all the Nintendo games been aimed at? That's right little kids. It's easy to write them off as casual too but I think they're more than that. You can be a core gamer at any age, I myself had over 20 N64 games by the age of 7. People say Nintendo's games are for casuals but really they're just for little kids, Nintendo's games have always been for little kids. They're one of the few companies that still even make games for youth. The whole industry of videogames has sort of grown up with the generation that played games. When it started most games were for little kids, then around the N64/PS1 and the Xbox/PS2 generations they slowly became more geared for adolescents. Now almost all games are meant for young adults.

Which brings me to my last point. Nintendo never betrayed their fans, we just grew up. Nintendo themselves never got any less core they just continued to appeal to a new audience with every generation rather than holding on to a single fickle generation who have been there since the beginning. Yes a bunch of people bought the wii and left it to gather dust. You know who else bought the wii? Thousands of brand identifying children who eagerly await the next from Nintendo. Nintendo never left their fans, they just made some new ones.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Yep. People seriously need to quit their whining about Nintendo targeting the kid/parent/elderly markets over the dudebro market.

 

[DustyDrB]

Well put. Though I still enjoy those kid's games thoroughly. No shame here.

 

[McMarbles]

There's a CS Lewis quote that applies, but it' been quoted so many times I don't feel a need to post it. Something about the childishness of denying childishness.

 

[The Abhorrent]

Nintendo never left their fans, they just made some new ones.

Another way of putting it is that their fans have left them; and while they've certainly made new ones, the only good reason for people to have moved on to other venues is simply because their tastes have changed. Nintendo's games are still of exceptionally high quality; and they're meant to be enjoyed by anyone, of any age. This last console generation has taught them that they shouldn't ignore the older audience (or at least it looks that way), but it's still not much reason for them to stop making games for all ages.

The one thing to keep in mind about the teenage and young adult audience is that they are (in general) trying to cast off the image of being "children". While not a bad idea in theory, in practice it often results in quite of a immaturity while (ironically) trying to emulate maturity; going after anything and everything considered adult content (nudity, violence, and so on), but over-indulging in it and reducing it to a warped perception of what it should be. A huge portion of games released in recent years have done this exactly, and it's certainly gained them a significant amount of profit; Nintendo has been one of the few to not cave into this trend, but it hasn't affected the quality of their games in the slightest.

Essentially, the misperception of Nintendo's games being "casual" or "kiddy" are the immature reactions of teenagers (and young adults) trying to come off more mature. The funny thing is that it would be more mature to not give a damn about social stigma and just enjoy the games; or in the cases where there's genuinely no longer any interest, politely say that they're tastes have changed with the times and leave it at that. The only reason for anyone to not enjoy Super Mario Galaxy would be that it isn't their type of game, not because of the perceived target audience.

Besides, who says you can't enjoy both Nintendo's games for all ages and those meant for an older audience?

 

[dimensional]

I would say Nintendo make games for everybody not just little kids thats why they have lasted so long ironically from my experience little kids (of a certain age anyway) tend to turn away from Nintendo because the games are generally colourful and therefore childish which ofc isnt for them because they are all grown up and too mature for these baby games.

I still play Nintendo games on occasion and I havent been a child (in the eyes of the law anyway) for quite some time now, they are doing what they have always done making solid games that almost anyone can enjoy thats their image and I dont think they want to do anything to risk that especially as they have little competition in their own area. Its Sony who aimed for the more young adults market specifically, and Microsoft has followed suit with the xbox. Nintendo hasnt discounted them they just dont aim for them specifically.

It is possible that this lack of focus is hurting them in some ways but what are they supposed to do its not really possible to target extremely young kids very easily as lots of parents I have spoken to do not want their children playing computer games until later (if at all) and slightly older children want to play `more mature` games its like watching some crappy 18 rated movie when youre 12 because you think it makes you look more grown up even if a great U movie is put next to a crappy 18 rated one odds are they will pick the 18 if given the choice. As for targeting the elderly ahahahaha yeah sorry not going to happen those elderly people who are going to play already do but for most games are way to far out of their field of vision most elderly people I know dont even watch many films let alone play video games.

So that leaves the same sort of market as Sony and Microsoft are targeting (unless they decide to heavily specialise in I dont know flight simulators or some military sim) and I dont think it would do them much good to try and directly compete they would just get muscled out hence their stance of saying they are not in direct competition.

 

[him over there]

I challenge anyone to

#1 Define casual and hardcore gamers
#2 Say how you can make a game for them

The only definition I have gotten is "varying interest in gaming" which means you cannot make a game for a "hardcore audience" thus making the terms void of meaning.

I sure can't define gamers but I could give a shot at defining casual and hardcore games. Core games are the focal point of an experience, it is a dedicated product for gaming whether it's a pass time or event. A casual game is something that requires no prior interest or setup, you can play angry birds in 2 minute bursts on the bus or while you walk, a hardcore game requires sone set up. ...Yeah it doesn't really work but it's the best I can do.

 

[baddude1337]

There is a certain social stigma that Nintendo does "kiddy games". Kiddy in the sense that blood isn't gushing out everywhere sure. Nintendo games generally appeal to everyone, it's just as kids are also the target it has to look kid-friendly.

 

[him over there]

I challenge anyone to

#1 Define casual and hardcore gamers
#2 Say how you can make a game for them

The only definition I have gotten is "varying interest in gaming" which means you cannot make a game for a "hardcore audience" thus making the terms void of meaning.

I sure can't define gamers but I could give a shot at defining casual and hardcore games. Core games are the focal point of an experience, it is a dedicated product for gaming whether it's a pass time or event. A casual game is something that requires no prior interest or setup, you can play angry birds in 2 minute bursts on the bus or while you walk, a hardcore game requires sone set up. ...Yeah it doesn't really work but it's the best I can do.

So it's accessibility? How does that make casual bad?

I can get into a game in CS:GO very fast yet it would be universally seen as hardcore.

See this is one of the reasons I put casual in quotes in the title. It's just that weird sort of thing that is a mixture a bunch of factors, a sort of "I can't descilribe it but you'll know when you see it" sort of thing. It's also one of the reasons it's bullshit and the phrase " how you play the game" is relevant. You could play angry birds until your thumbs bleed trying to get a highscore, you could play crysis just to fuck around, it's ultimately a buzzword that usually refers to the complexity and quality of a game for some reason, like people who play casually have no taste.

 

[TrevHead]

I never had a Nintendo system as a kid I was Sega & Sony. It's only until a couple of years ago that I got into retro gaming that I began to appreciate Ninty.

I'm glad that Ninty tend to do their own thing separate from from the other hardware

In regards to casual and hardcore I feel those words have become bastardised with the dudebros using them to descibe ppl who play the games they like as hardcore gamers and most others as casuals.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

I always believed that Nintendo made/makes games for people all ages can enjoy them

 

[dimensional]

"*snip prievious quotes for space*
See this is one of the reasons I put casual in quotes in the title. It's just that weird sort of thing that is a mixture a bunch of factors, a sort of "I can't describe it but you'll know when you see it" sort of thing.

What you just said reminded me of St Augustine quote which was something along these lines (so ive been told)

[b/]What then is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks, I do not know.[/b]

Just replace time with casual or hardcore gamers and bam problem solved.

Ive already posted my views on the thread topic so wont add anymore its just this quote seemed appropriate here.

 

[Gatx]

I challenge anyone to

#1 Define casual and hardcore gamers
#2 Say how you can make a game for them

The only definition I have gotten is "varying interest in gaming" which means you cannot make a game for a "hardcore audience" thus making the terms void of meaning.

Not really a serious answer but:

Casual gamers are the ones that play games that don't require dedication (but may or may not end up taking a shit load of your accumulated time without you noticing) like mobile and social games. "Non-casual" gamers will play anything really. "Hardcore" gamers are ones that like to play M rated games with lots of sex and violence, but usually just the violence will do.

 

[him over there]

Considering that one of the launch games for the Wii U is a survival-horror zombie FPS where all inventory management has to be done in real time, one hit can kill your character, and dying necessitates replaying an entire level with a new character to get to the spot where the old you was zombified so you can kill the zombie-you to get your stuff back... well, that sounds pretty damn hardcore to me.

This whole 'Nintendo console = only for teh kids' keeps getting bandied about, and its as untrue with the Wii U and Wii as it was for the Gamecube and N64.

It's funny, small-minded conservative media types are always trying paint games as being nothing more than toys for children. For all their bleating and whining about games deserving recognition, gamers sure seem quick to side with the conservatives when it comes to Nintendo. Despite the likes of ZombiU, MadWorld, Eternal Darkness, No More Heroes, Doom 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, etc, all providing adult thrills for adult gamers across 4 generations of Nintendo consoles.

But hey ho, what do I know...

I was talking more about the games that Nintendo makes as opposed to the system as a whole but that is a very good point. even with these sorts of games though Nintendo consoles boast a surplus of family friendly titles while the other consoles are made nearly entirely of these sorts of games. I just think if we didn't have Nintendo and their "kiddy games" we would be worse off for it, especially as no other notable developer seems to want to ever venture into that demographic.

 

[Gatx]

I challenge anyone to

#1 Define casual and hardcore gamers
#2 Say how you can make a game for them

The only definition I have gotten is "varying interest in gaming" which means you cannot make a game for a "hardcore audience" thus making the terms void of meaning.

Not really a serious answer but:

Casual gamers are the ones that play games that don't require dedication (but may or may not end up taking a shit load of your accumulated time without you noticing) like mobile and social games. "Non-casual" gamers will play anything really. "Hardcore" gamers are ones that like to play M rated games with lots of sex and violence, but usually just the violence will do.

So hardcore gamers are dudebros then, I'm glad I don't call myself a hardcore gamer.

"non-casual". Why not just say "gamer" or "someone how often plays games"?

I felt like I needed to differentiate it since I listed it right after casual gamer but that is essentially what I meant. And "hardcore" is in quotations for a reason.

Hardcore gamers are dudebros, while casual gamers are hipster douches.

Ahh, how much better things are when we unfairly generalize.

Well, you have to generalize when you're trying to define a category of people. Also I would consider gamers of all types who refuse to acknowledge "casual games" at all as having more a hipster attitude if we're going with unfair generalizations and casual gamers as "the masses." Also I can see "dudebros" as being the most accepting, able to appreciate both "hardcore games" like Call of Duty and Dead Space and what not as well as Angry Birds weirdly enough.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

There is a certain social stigma that Nintendo does "kiddy games". Kiddy in the sense that blood isn't gushing out everywhere sure. Nintendo games generally appeal to everyone, it's just as kids are also the target it has to look kid-friendly.

Give me a break. If you're old enough to manipulate a controller, you've long outgrown this:

I can handle kiddy, but this is just obnoxious. I wouldn't have liked this as a kid. I guess the Japanese go for it.

It may be that my tastes have changed, but I don't think that is the cause of my current distaste for Nintendo. I can play and enjoy the old Zelda and Mario games. But more recent titles are constantly distracting me with terrible controls and artwork for babies and Japanese people. I don't think Nintendo betrayed their fans exactly. But they definitely aren't what they were when I was a lad.

 

[Alex Baas]

Nintendo has one of my favourite online games ever. How's that for irony?

(Monster Hunter Tri since I know you are going to ask)

 

[wintercoat]

I view the stereotype of "casual gamers" as people who don't play games that often. The thing is, that goes against what the definition of casual is. Most of us are all casual gamers, we don't play to be stressed out, we play to unwind and have fun.

And gamers have fun in different ways.

Some of them have fun, while not being particularly challenged or engaged by the games they play. Those are the 'casuals'.

Some of them have fun while overcoming the phsycal, gameplay, or mental challenges which a game sets in front of them. Those are the 'hardcore'.

Or at least that's how I see it.

Spoiler: I...have a .jpg for that

Fun handed to you on a silver platter vs fun you have to work for.

 

[Don Savik]

Considering that one of the launch games for the Wii U is a survival-horror zombie FPS where all inventory management has to be done in real time, one hit can kill your character, and dying necessitates replaying an entire level with a new character to get to the spot where the old you was zombified so you can kill the zombie-you to get your stuff back... well, that sounds pretty damn hardcore to me.

This whole 'Nintendo console = only for teh kids' keeps getting bandied about, and its as untrue with the Wii U and Wii as it was for the Gamecube and N64.

It's funny, small-minded conservative media types are always trying paint games as being nothing more than toys for children. For all their bleating and whining about games deserving recognition, gamers sure seem quick to side with the conservatives when it comes to Nintendo. Despite the likes of ZombiU, MadWorld, Eternal Darkness, No More Heroes, Doom 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, etc, all providing adult thrills for adult gamers across 4 generations of Nintendo consoles.

But hey ho, what do I know...

ZombiU - ubisoft, not nintendo
Madworld - third party
No More Heroes - Suda 51, also no longer wii exclusive
Doom 64 - a doom port. seriously a port is your example?
Conker's Bad Fur Day - this game, while good, was a fluke, and we never got a game that M-rated again in the history of gaming...so......yea

Not saying these are bad games, but they have nothing to do with Nintendo. Yes you can get thrills out of a nintendo console as an adult gamer, but honestly its a joke compared to PC and ps3/xbox at this moment. The problem with Nintendo is they hit a note with the family-friendly-not-serious-gamers crowd with the Wii, and has focused their attention away from other things. Most Nintendo fans have grown up, and despite loving Mario as kids, a big colorful bee made for babies (post above) isn't going to grab our interest anymore.

Why is Nintendo incapable of making T to M rated games of their established franchises exactly? The market is there for darker games on the consoles. Having only E rated games doesn't add a lot of variety.

I just want to know what is stopping them from holding older fan's interests. I don't want Nintendo to become dark and broody all of a sudden, I just feel like I've outgrown the direction they want to go in gaming.

 

[Vault101]

Nintendo catering to another audience isnt a bad thing (its even good)

however what annoys me is when nintendefenders get all self rightious and defensive

"you hate on nintendo? yeah..well...your just a dumbass who likes COD/brown games! ner!"

if you have to fall back on strawman arguments its not working...