Nintendo Says No To Same Sex Relationships For Tomodachi Miis

[Olas]

You know, not including something in the game isn't the same thing as protesting it. Animal Crossing didn't feature any sort of organized religion, that doesn't mean Animal Crossing is anti-religious. Do you think it's POSSIBLE people might be overreacting to this a bit?

It's funny watching the Ninendo defence force go to work in these scenarios. Frankly I've always seen Nintendo as incredibly backward, socially, technologically, everywhere. If there was ever a progressive thought in mind it was quickly squashed by the bottom dollar.

Despite the kiddy friendly facade, nintedo is damn insidious. Like a man in a pedo-bear suit.

Examples? Evidence? Reasoning? Do you have anything like that to back up this weird opinion of yours?

The Nintendo Defense Force doesn't have to work very hard when there isn't anything real to defend against.

Well, that's one more company to add to the block list for homophobia.

Such a shame, I really liked Nintendo too.

Well...I don't think you over-reacted quite hard enough here. Maybe a mass protest, death threats or burning buildings down is in order?

No, all I did was just stop buying Nintendo stuff and throw out all the Nintendo products I have (hardware and games and that's it.)

I'm not going to do something drastic like that.

Wouldn't a more sensible move be simply following MiiQuality's suggestion and using the Club Nintendo Survey to campaign for a same sex DLC or more likely a Same Sex couple feature in the sequel?

They don't listen, they just like to say they do.

If we want our voice heard we need to get together and appropriately boycott their products. They listen to the sound of money going down the drain.

And if they do make a sequel/update that features gay relationships, will you go into the trash and dig out all the Nintendo products you threw out? Or are they forever tainted now?

 

[DOOM GUY]

The shitstorm has already happened. Some guy made a video pleading for same sex relationships for the English release and they calmly said no. Then when the LGBT propaganda machine got a hold of it; facts got twisted to serve their agenda and now we are where we are. Polygon already has an article on it and one of their people were apparently going to talk to BBC about it. I imagine more shit is gonna come, but it's too late to stop this storm.

I just feel all this is completely unnecessary, it's a feature that wasn't in the game to begin with, and they simply stated they're not going to include gay relationships in the localization, it's not like they hate gay people or anything, or don't want them playing their games. This shit isn't gonna affect sales anyway, hell, some people may buy it just to spite the SJWs, and in the end this shitstorm just makes the gaming community look like bigger jackasses...

 

[Cybylt]

and the lovely term " Your either with us or against us" thrown around isn't what people fighting for the "Right" side do.

Shit didn't change because people say on their thumbs while mildly suggesting to people that maybe they shouldn't be such meanies towards them.

Which is funny because complaining about it online IS sitting on your thumbs and changing nothing with the angry posts being nothing more than a big fat placebo that makes you think otherwise. Largely because they will likely never leave the echo-chamber of forums filled with people who share your opinion.

 

[DOOM GUY]

and the lovely term " Your either with us or against us" thrown around isn't what people fighting for the "Right" side do.

Shit didn't change because people say on their thumbs while mildly suggesting to people that maybe they shouldn't be such meanies towards them.

Which is funny because complaining about it online IS sitting on your thumbs and changing nothing with the angry posts being nothing more than a big fat placebo that makes you think otherwise. Largely because they will likely never leave the echo-chamber of forums filled with people who share your opinion.

Seems to me more like they're burning bridges by pulling shit like that, 'cause people who didn't really care before, and even people who may have been sympathetic, are probably gonna be against them, due to the shitty attitudes they get.

 

[Dragonbums]

Nintendo should of really just kept their mouth shut about this, 'cause now we're gonna get a shitstorm over some fucking video game... again...

The thing is is that the initial reply was to somemone who was very calm, very rational, and very understanding of why Nintendo didn't add it. In fact the person UNDERSTOOD why they can't do it now and Nintendo responded in kind. However as someone already told you this is when shit hit the fan when idiots with misinformation and no background knowledge got a hold of it and blew it up to horrible proportions. Now you got people calling Nintendo bigots over a game that came out a fucking year ago.


You know what? I just made my decision. I'm going to buy the fucking game.

 

[The Lunatic]

Not going to support a game or company which pretends that homosexuality doesn't exist. And treats it like a "Bug to be fixed".

I've no care for the bullshit of nostalgia when it comes to Nintendo, I'd suggest others to disregard it too.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Well, that's one more company to add to the block list for homophobia.

Such a shame, I really liked Nintendo too.

I'm sure someone's said this, but have you SEEN Birdo?

Spoiler

Thats a GUY. Nintendo's had a pre-op transgender character in their games since 1988. They usually pair Birdo and Yoshi together for 'reasons' that Nintendo never hung a lamp-shade off but is pretty open to interpretation. Still on Mario, Vivian from Thousand Year Door! Another cross-dresser that's pre-op! That's... actually a surprisingly high average for transgender characters!

Or how about Tony in Earthbound for a more legit pairing who has implied attraction to Jeff, one of the main characters, as backed up by the creator (so 199..4? I think? Gay relationship in a game in 1994?). Or Chrono Trigger with Flea who is... another... cross-dresser.
... Wow, my childhood had a lot of guys in drag in it.

And now you've made a further problem, because we have above one instance of Nintendo saying "We didn't code it in, there was a game-breaking bug that made it work but it was game-breaking so we fixed it" and now everyone is demanding they include it, I've given a couple of 'off the top of my head' examples of where Nintendo has been downright supportive of LGBT stuff but, no, you're treating them on the same par as the WBC for an imagined slight. Yeah, they probably should've allowed gay relationships in it and it was kinda dumb they didn't consider it but you're mistaking error for malice.

THIS actively harms your cause because everyone thinks this is what you're about! Calling for blood and boycotting a company who made an oversight. I mean, obviously, you can be pissed about it, not buy the game, campaign etc, y'know. I just want to point out the company your demonising has been INCREDIBLY supportive to your cause through the years and made at least one person (me) aware and more tolerant.

 

[Dragonbums]

Yes, I'm well aware. And yet they knew that people wanted this from a year ago when they patched same-sex relationships out of the game because male-male relationships would result in pregnancy. They had a year to think "hmm, maybe we should plan on including it".

No. I just said that they patched it out because it corrupted save files and crashed the game. Therefore they didn't do it with the intention of getting rid of same sex couples. They did it because it broke the fucking game. You say you knew this and your still insinuating that it was for the gay couple aspect?

Yes, and the response was "nope". Doesn't matter how polite the packaging is, the message is clear - no same-sex relationships. Thats what Nintendo responded with, and I think its quite fair to call them out for that.

Yes. I would figure they aren't going to go back and fix a one year old game and revert a patch they made in April of 2013. Especially for a market that hasn't been proven to of been profitable for this series yet. They did not however state that they would NEVER include gay relationships into the franchise. Just not this one. Or would you rather they take all of the staff who made this game off other important projects to recode something to satisfy an increasingly nasty crowd of activists who have already sworn off buying the game anyway?

Yes. Nintendo said "no gay relationships in this game", unapologetically. They've had almost an entire year to think about it before they issued this statement. Their stance is clear.

Yes. There stance is clear. No gay relationships in this particular installment of Tomodachi life. That has FUCK ALL to do on what they think of gay marriage as a whole.

I would hardly call this lashing out.

Really?

Funny you mention this. Gracie and Sahara are, and always has been, men in the Japanese versions. Thats since 2001 in Japan. However, ever since the 2002 release in the North America localizations, they're women. Additionally, I haven't found anything that indicated that T/Q characters are in New Leaf in the North American localization.

The giraffe was biologically male and the camel was female. That was edited out of the North American version by Treehouse. Funnily enough I didn't even see that shit blow up like this did.

I genuinely had not heard of this. Looked it up, and surprise, not only does it exist, but its not horribly offensive just like most depictions of transgender people in the media are as well. Seems like Pokemon X and Y have been handling stuff like that better than any of its predecessors though.

Pokemon X and Y- created by Gamefreak, and owned by Nintendo. The same company you just claimed have something against the LGBTQ+ community managed to implement a transgendered character in game without it being offensive.

Irony much?

 

[MrHide-Patten]

Also, did you seriously just compare a corporation to pedophilia? Yes, clearly those in defense of Nintendo are the least mature, least sensible individuals in this discussion.

Whoo, I just said 'like', but hey your the one who took the stick and ran with it. There's nothing to defend here, they could go ahead and include same sex relationships, but they'd rather remain indecisive. A big show of recognition would mean a lot to the gay community, especially those that grew up with Nintendo and are big fans. But the big N's acting like they don't exist to keep the old farts and bigots happy.

 

[CWestfall]

I'm more interested if Movie extreme liberal Nintendo fan Bob will bring this up?

wat

Where exactly in the United States are you from?

 

[martyrdrebel27]

like it or not Nintendo, you're making a social statement by NOT including it. in fact, following that thought, i'm even more annoyed than a few seconds ago. why is be inclusive considered a social statement? if anything, being non-inclusive is the statement-making.

so glad they're circling the drain.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

Examples? Evidence? Reasoning? Do you have anything like that to back up this weird opinion of yours?

The Nintendo Defense Force doesn't have to work very hard when there isn't anything real to defend against.

*cracks neck* Well since you asked, now keep in mind these are wholly my opinions and are really just extra dollops of cream on the "why the fuck is Nintendo so fan-dabby-dabulous" cake.

To list all the ways I consider them old and thoroughly outdated, hmm where to start? The tech most obviously along with their online infrastructure being outdated and dragging the chain. Their treatment of consumers with dry sequel after dry sequel that prey upon Nostalgia, lack of third party support, etc.

Generally the stuff I consider to be insidious is the way they treat female characters in general. If they aren't pushed into done to death tropes (locked in a cupboard damsel in distress dujour) they are not allowed to be openly feminine and have to hide it under a facade of androgyny (Shiek & Samus).

Frankly I don't think Nintendo are the hero of the games industry that every neurotic fan makes them out to be. But hey, just my opinion, it's not like I'm booking a flight to Nintendo HQ and setting up anthrax bombs or something... much too expensive.

 

[William Ossiss]

I see what they're saying. They're a game company that wants to appeal to the broadest audience they could. Doesn't mean the deserve so much hate. Now-a-days if something has the ability to marry another character in a game, date a character in game, or what have you; the company gets reviled and called homophobic for not including same sex afore-mentioned things in game.

Look, I get it. We ALL want same sex marriage in the real world. I doubt the way to do that is to complain about it not being in a video game.

Perhaps, and I do hope you follow me here; Perhaps if we get it to be a real thing almost globally, the games and entertainment we all enjoy will follow suit. First we get it socially approved in the real world, then we get it in media. Simple.

 

[Dragonbums]

They've had a year of response since they edited that, seeing that people wanted that feature. They decided to not include it in the US version,

That feature was also not included in the Japanese game either.

with over an entire year in which they easily could've fixed the problem with save file corruption and included same-sex couples. It appears very, very strongly that they have not. If they have, their response to the Miiquality movement should've been "Yes, we've included same-sex relationships", not what they actually said, which is:

"We have heard and thoughtfully considered all the responses... We're using this as an opportunity to better understand our consumers and their expectations of us at all levels of the organization,"

Yeah. And? By that time the entire dev team for that games is off doing other big projects for Nintendo. They fixed the bug after a couple of months after the games initial release, made a statement saying they aren't going to implement it in this title, but hinted that in future titles that can become a thing. None of that even remotely implies that Nintendo is against gay rights. All it implies is that they aren't doing it for this one particular game.

Why not? They did it to censor Animal Crossing, Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door, and all subsequent portrayals of Birdo in North America localizations.

Because every single one of those games had those audited out by the American branch of Nintendo. Not Nintendo of Japan. Not to mention that all of those games had an intended release date for markets outside of Japan months after the Japanese release. Tomodachi Life is not one of those cases in the slightest. This was a game that for the longest time never had a market outside of Japan and have just now decided to see how the Western Market likes it and as such gave the game to Treehouse to translate. That's all this game is. A direct translation port from the Japanese game.

Okay, so? They chose money over recognizing the validity of gay people's existence.

Yes. Let's ignore the dozens of other characters Nintendo have made queer/transgendered etc and claim that Nintendo doesn't exist gay marriage. Keep this up. They aren't even putting money before anything. They are taking a big enough risk already just porting this game because it was thought to be "Too Japanese"

Yeah, so? That still gives me and every other person every right to judge them for the actions they're committing in regards to this.

So basically your purposefully ignoring the facts right in front of you so you can continue to assert the false claim that Nintendo is against the LGBTQ+ community over a single bug that broke the game patched out over a year ago?

Like I said, they had a year,

They did not have a year. The original dev team for this game has long gone off to new projects months after the game's release.

and developers are already working on the game via localization teams. Its not unreasonable to say that they could've done so.

Nintendo Treehouse are not part of the development teams for Tomodachi life. Nor do they have the time or budget to go in to complete recode a game. They could of done so, but that would take way too many resources out of other games with tighter deadlines to implement something for a game that's a year fucking old. I can see no company big or small going back and doing that. I don't expect to see Nintendo doing that.

"The relationship options in the game represent a playful alternate world rather than a real-life simulation. We hope that all of our fans will see that 'Tomodachi Life' was intended to be a whimsical and quirky game, and that we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary."

Sorry, but they are making a bit of social commentary. They're saying that non-heterosexuals don't have a place in this world, a world which already included sexual relationships.

That's not what they said. Especially when you just quoted them stating that they will do better on this issue in newer installments.

Yes. This is lashing out:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/a-shooting-at-family-rese_b_1789256.html

Saying you're not going to buy their videogames anymore because they did something you don't like is not.

And? The reaction to this is lashing out over a whole lot of shit that's a non issue. You aren't going out and killing people and I never stated you aren't allowed to not buy Nintendo products. But you have basically sat here and told me that while you acknowledge why they couldn't do it. Your still going to go out of your way and claim that Nintendo is against LGBTQ+ people because they didn't patch it into a game that came out a fucking year ago.

It was an un-announced alteration in a localization,

Do you really think it would of been important enough to announce?

and the only people who would've known about it at release are people who themselves localized the games.

And... you know, the people who own the Japanese versions of the game.

Also this http://kotaku.com/animal-crossing-characters-changed-sex-for-western-rele-554496463

In this instance, they're making a public press release.

In response to a well thought out and reasonable comment on the matter.

I never said they had anything against the community.

Oh my God are you serious now? Your entire post to me and the topic as a whole basically said that Nintendo made a stance on gay marriage and that stance is that they think they don't exist. Which in extension is them being against the LGBTQ+ community. Even your own reply on the matter to me says as much. Now your pulling out?




I said that they valued a safe, stable release and not pissing off any overly-conservative mom who notices that there's a queer person in their game than representing the queer community, especially for children. It doesn't necessarily make them an enemy, but it doesn't mean that they're an ally either.[/quote]

 

[Something Amyss]

To be fair to Nintendo, I like to believe that initially not including same-sex relationships came from a place of ignorance - or apathy (considering the initial release was Japan only) - instead of hatred.

However, now that it has been brought to their attention through the Miiquality campaign, and they are bringing it out globally, for them to shrug this issue off as "Oh, this isn't reality, and gays aren't a thing in our quirky and whimsical world" is extremely disheartening to see.

"Your friends. Your drama. Your life. Except if you're not straight." is the message it sends out, whether Nintendo wants it to or not.

I fail to see how it's different. It still seems like it's apathy (at best).

 

[chadachada123]

This may seem like a cop-out answer, but why not just play as a tomboy-ish female and then fall in love with a male?

That's what I'd do if I were gay, at least.

Same as how I decorated myself as a female character in South Park: SoT, because I can play make-believe without the game necessarily supporting it.

 

[DarkRawen]

Hm, I really can't see what the problem is. Sure, it'd be neat to have same sex relationships being possible in the game, but if it wasn't in the original game then I can't see why it is required to be added. Be nice, but, you know, it wasn't a part of the game in the first place. Besides, for someone to require a company to make a statement is kinda out of line, if they want to step back and be like: "We're not choosing a side", then that's the company's right, IMO.

Also, some posts in this thread reminds me, sadly, of why I've avoided LGBT (Q? +? whatever people prefer). No offense to the people or anything like that, it just seems like a very intense group.

 

[zarguhl]

This game is UTTER discrimination. There is no option suited to the needs of objectophiles like myself! The sleek, curved sides of a porcelain cup, the sharp, dangerous, yet ever so delicate frayed wire edges of a cut power cord... This is NOT OKAY! I demand my sexual preferences are appreciated by EVERY game I play and EVERY movie I watch!

The gaming industry is a vile den of discrimination! Mass Effect didn't have ANY suitable relationship options for an objectophile such as myself! There were so many items I wanted as my own, but NONE it would allow me to fornicate with!

And now THIS! A children's game that doesn't let me penetrate the wall with my lusty ardor! SICK!

 

[Eve Charm]

Which is funny because complaining about it online IS sitting on your thumbs and changing nothing with the angry posts being nothing more than a big fat placebo that makes you think otherwise. Largely because they will likely never leave the echo-chamber of forums filled with people who share your opinion.

You want to know how much of the reforms during the all three of those movements were gained?

Protests that bring attention to the problem and people, businesses, and organzation that perpetuated it, asking for recognition as a people group, and organizing boycotts. Well lets see...

1) By somebody organizing themselves, Nintendo's stance, at least on this game, was revealed, and now people know about it.

2) In the prior mentioned in the "Miiquality" effort, this was stated: "You import your personalized characters into the game. You name them. You give them a personality. You give them a voice. They just can't fall in love if they're gay."

Nobody accused of being homophobes, just stating that you're disrespecting people who are gay by not recognizing their lives in this game about emulating the experience of life.

3) People are deciding to boycott Nintendo for this decision, and are spreading the word.

Seems like all those conditions I mentioned are being met.

Additionally, I wouldn't exactly call The Escapist an "echo-chamber" when it comes to this type of stuff. See: your own post, this very thread, the recent Mozilla thing, the Duck Dynasty comments, the Chick-fil-a thing from two years ago, just to name a few of the bigger instances.

I bold the interesting point, Boycotting. Which is funny because of people ACTUALLY gave a damn about Miiquality or even took the time to watch the video before getting on the hate train is that boycotting the game is the LAST THING the creator wants. The creator knows boycotting the game and Nintendo will make the idea of a future game or a patch putting in same sex marriage NEVER happen because Nintendo would just trash the game if it sells poorly and has tons of controversy about it instead of what the creator wants, good press and sales so they would consider changing it.

The guy spends about 2 mintues of his video with a flashing scrolling banner saying in all caps "DON"T BOYCOTT THIS GAME OR NINTENDO" Which it makes me wonder if anyone really even watched the video before getting out the pitch forks because I haven't read one article saying the creator doesn't want people to boycott nintendo.

I'm sure it would bold better for people trying to push for reform movements if the people actually took the time to see what and how they are actually trying to reform. If all your there to do is push your own agenda and not give a damn about the wishes of the moment your trying to "Help out" your better off staying out of it for their sake.

 

[MrMan999]

You know, its actually pretty funny. Miiquality actually argued against a boycott. He instead said that people should buy the game and then use the club Nintendo feature to provide feedback. He argued that a boycott will have the exact opposite effect and actually discourage Nintendo from localizing more of these types of games. And Nintendo actually did respond civilly to him, saying that they will most certainly consider adding same sex couples if the feedback is positive. Right now I am seeing nothing but negative feedback.