Nintendo Wants Its Cut

[shiajun]

If this was to protect their copyrights, then why didn't they just remove the videos entirely? And what about Let's Plays before they made money? Didn't they make videos about Nintendo games and not get paid for it? And don't the people who work for 4 years on a game have a right to decide who can make a profit on it? I'm not implying they should remove bad reviews, but if people are making a profit by LPing a game they hate, or just make fart jokes at it, do they not have a right to say they don't want that? I mean if you worked 4 years on a horror game and someone completely destroys the atmosphere for people seeing the game for the first time by making random jokes about irrelevant stuff, is it wrong of the developer to say they don't want that video to be making that person a profit?

No, they shouldn't have any right to monetize what people say about their games. They can make a public request for people to not be so mean, but once you set a game out in the wild you have to deal with everything people will say about it even if you don't like the angle. A lot of channels are about video reviews and they have clips of them playing the game. So, in Nintendo's eyes they make a game, I profit from the sales, then make a profit from anyone who reviews their game on Yotube? How is that encouraging your fanbase to talk about your games?

Let's make a strained analogy. Comedians make a living out of jokes, and a lot of them take cheap shots or mock popular movies, people or events. There isn't any reason why parody should be restrained with the copyright hammer. You wouldn't tell a comedian "you can do all the stand-up routines you want, but if you mock our movie you won't get a cent". It even goes futher into "if you make a stand-up routine about us, WE get the profit, not you, who thought up all the jokes". However, I don't even think that's the direction Nintendo is going with this. It's just clueless money-grab.

 

[CriticalMiss]

I think it speaks volumes about the possible implosion of the WiiU if Ninty are stealing kids milk money.

And I didn't know you did LPs Mr Shamus. Consider me a convert. Hopefully they are more entertaining than those crazy kids who just scream and act all 'wacky' in their videos for what I am informed are 'the lols'.

 

[Almack]

jeffers incoming in 3,2,1. but in all seriousness everything that shamus mentioned is exactly what I and most people i think thought when they heard this story last week.

 

[5mj7R7yf4Dwr3gdZyyu9PeGNwYjlNrjzuh3iTXQG]

This makes me think of the point when McCain announced Sarah Palin as his running mate.

I asked myself what was he thinking?

I expected that somehow somewhere, he was approached by a cowled member of the GOP secret dark-god cult who told him And you will announce this woman Sarah Palin to be your running mate. You do not ask questions.

(...and I will announce this woman Sarah Palin to be my running mate. I do not ask questions.)

And this time around, I'm wondering about Nintendo.

I'm asking myself what were they thinking?

238U

PS: There is an adage: If you can't innovate, litigate. Maybe this speaks to the desperation of Big Mario.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Who cares. Nintendo will eventually go the way of Sega anyway. They really don't understand how modern industry works. FFS all their consoles are region locked! And you've just noticed they're out of touch?

I don't think they'll go exactly the way of sega. At worst, I think they'll limit their international hardware market to handhelds and primarily develop games that remain in Japan with the exception of games made for their handheld.

 

[SandroTheMaster]

I think it speaks volumes about the possible implosion of the WiiU if Ninty are stealing kids milk money.

And I didn't know you did LPs Mr Shamus. Consider me a convert. Hopefully they are more entertaining than those crazy kids who just scream and act all 'wacky' in their videos for what I am informed are 'the lols'.

Well, to tell the truth, they don't actually consider Spoiler Warning LPs. It is more like a deconstruction of games, mostly negative though, with Shamus as the vitriol king, Josh on the helm playing (a man completely deranged... and thus amusing to watch), Rutskarn to supply an endless stream of puns from all ranges of quality (from just cringe-worthy to suicide inducing... as this is the range of Puns that exist) and, currently, Chris from Errant Signal to provide academic viewpoints. They started with Mass Effect because they liked the first game and wanted to make some criticism and analyze the game, mostly pointing out some ridiculous leaps the writers make, including granting Shepard cut-scene knowledge... of cut scenes he wasn't part of. But it also had a lot of good to say about the setting. Unfortunately, they felt compelled to make both sequels as well. The Spoiler Warning of Mass Effect 3 is one of the most acidic works ever committed to the internet. It might actually melt your computer.

That said, they still try to make it about games that they have a lot to say about. They were very positive about Deus Ex: Human Revolution and The Walking Dead. Though they may tarnish your vision of Bioshock if you liked that game.

They're very entertaining in any case.

 

[Uratoh]

I was going to LP Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door next. With this happening...I'm having second thoughts.

 

[Catalyst6]

This sentiment is bizarre, honestly. The entire idea of an LP is to show off a game, whether because you love it to death or because it's god awful and you want to laugh at it. It's been that way since its birth on SA seven years ago. But YouTube has bastardized what is essentially a hobby you do for fun and turned it into something you can make money off of, which in turn has given many people the idea that you *deserve* money to make silly video game videos for fun.

So what if Nintendo puts ads on your videos? You should be doing LPs because you like to do LPs, not because you're trying to get fat stacks of cash off of them. If this news registers as anything other than mild disappointment it seems like a readjustment of your priorities is seriously in order. If you didn't have ads before then you have short ads now on 30-minute long videos, and only if the watcher isn't using adblock. If you had ads before because you can't stand the thought of doing anything without capitalizing on it then you lose that money. Ho hum, I guess you'll have to go back to doing things for fun.

The YouTube LP Celebrity phenomenon is why YT is choked with quantity-over-quality garbage videos of people screaming into their microphones over unedited footage.

E. Nintendo could have just forbidden LPs altogether, like SEGA did. This is worse?

 

[Snotnarok]

There's people defending Nintendo on this and it's flat out stupidity, even if they have the right to do this it makes them look like MASSIVE assholes and the LPers who do this DO put in work to make their LPs and Nintendo gets FREE ADVERTISING out of this! I bought a few Nintendo games because of LPs, and I sure wasn't thinking about any of them till I was watching my favorite LPers/reviewers go over said game.

They sold games because of LPers, and now they're just snatching what they can from LPers. The fans need to stop defending nintendos every move and realize this move here? This is a real bastard move.

 

[luckshot]

i completely agree, and i am also completely surprised at how inept some companies that are supposedly run by smart people can be

also a good protest of this would be to do a lets play of a nintendo game playing itself, just 10 minutes of the character standing in place, because that is what nintendo created. Without the player/commentary/discussion all you have is a single scene

 

[AngelOfBlueRoses]

I'm just going to sit around and wait for Jeffers. That'll make this thread infinitely more times interesting.

All in all, though, I do agree with you, Shamus, and once again you've said it better than I could.

 

[Catalyst6]

There's people defending Nintendo on this and it's flat out stupidity, even if they have the right to do this it makes them look like MASSIVE assholes and the LPers who do this DO put in work to make their LPs and Nintendo gets FREE ADVERTISING out of this! I bought a few Nintendo games because of LPs, and I sure wasn't thinking about any of them till I was watching my favorite LPers/reviewers go over said game.

They sold games because of LPers, and now they're just snatching what they can from LPers. The fans need to stop defending nintendos every move and realize this move here? This is a real bastard move.

If those LPers are expecting to get money because they're advertising for Nintendo then they should be signing a contract with Nintendo before any videos go up. I can't scream "BUY PEPSI" at random people in the street and then sue Pepsi Co. because I didn't get a check in the mail.

VVVVV
How is Nintendo stopping people from LPing lesser known games? They aren't removing any videos at all.

 

[Lance Icarus]

As I wrote about on my blog on Destructoid, Nintendo is really missing out on a huge opportunity. They're depending on YouTube's Content ID system when they should just be posting clear guidelines about what does and does not constitute infringement. Really, the biggest problem is the lack of communication. Nintendo should be taking a different route and incentivizing Let Players to play lesser known or new IPs. Like Shamus said, we all know what happens in a Mario or Zelda game. However, what about the many Nintendo games that get looked over? Those are the games that need eyes and Nintendo is refusing to let that happen.

-Mod edit: Link removed.

 

[CriticalMiss]

I think it speaks volumes about the possible implosion of the WiiU if Ninty are stealing kids milk money.

And I didn't know you did LPs Mr Shamus. Consider me a convert. Hopefully they are more entertaining than those crazy kids who just scream and act all 'wacky' in their videos for what I am informed are 'the lols'.

Well, to tell the truth, they don't actually consider Spoiler Warning LPs. It is more like a deconstruction of games, mostly negative though, with Shamus as the vitriol king, Josh on the helm playing (a man completely deranged... and thus amusing to watch), Rutskarn to supply an endless stream of puns from all ranges of quality (from just cringe-worthy to suicide inducing... as this is the range of Puns that exist) and, currently, Chris from Errant Signal to provide academic viewpoints. They started with Mass Effect because they liked the first game and wanted to make some criticism and analyze the game, mostly pointing out some ridiculous leaps the writers make, including granting Shepard cut-scene knowledge... of cut scenes he wasn't part of. But it also had a lot of good to say about the setting. Unfortunately, they felt compelled to make both sequels as well. The Spoiler Warning of Mass Effect 3 is one of the most acidic works ever committed to the internet. It might actually melt your computer.

That said, they still try to make it about games that they have a lot to say about. They were very positive about Deus Ex: Human Revolution and The Walking Dead. Though they may tarnish your vision of Bioshock if you liked that game.

They're very entertaining in any case.

I use the term LP to very broadly cover a video in which a game is played, by a person or persons, with commentary. Some people call their videos walkthroughs or guides or what have you, and I guess scathing criticism is covered too.

I've watched the first episode of the Fallout New Vegas series and it was quite good, although I have to get used to four people talking over the same video. And I kind of like that the commentary is about something rather than the usual LP chat of 'what's that?', 'where do I go?' and 'what do I do? This game is so shit! Oh the [objective] is right here.'. I've already played most of the titles they have covered so I'm watching to see an alternate perspective on it, even if it may make me cry a little

And there must be puns. At the dawn of the Universe there were puns. There are always...puns.

 

[Dork Angel]

It may be a tangent, but in the UK we're having a similar issue only with PPL and music. I'm a part-time fitness instructor who teaches Les Mills classes. One of the USP's of Les Mills is that they use the original music rather than cover versions. Up til now we paid a flat fee to PPL to be allowed to play the music in our classes. PPL have decided they don't get enough money from that so they now want a % cut of every class. This starts at £1 rising to £2 in a year or so. While this doesn't sound a lot, it's 5-10 percent of what I get paid for a class. What this means in real terms is that a gym studio running 40 classes a week will now be paying £160 rising to £340 per month. That's before they have paid rent, utilities, insurance, licence costs or even for someone to actually take a class.

The results will be one of the following:

1) Gym picks up the cost. Result - It is now almost too expensive to run a gym that just teaches classes. I know some that have already closed and others are struggling. End result - If gyms close, PPL gets less money.
2) The gym reduces my rate. Result - after 8 years without a pay rise I have to take a 5-10% pay cut to help out those poor staving music moguls. On top of that it's not even tax deductible any more. End result - I will hate them with a vengeance and seriously revisit my no piracy policy.
3) The gym drops PPL classes. Result - Cheers, luckily I still have my day job. End result - PPL gets less money.
4) Les Mills moves to cover versions. Result - Classes become more bland. Oh, and the back catalog of music I have paid for stretching back 10 years is now illegal to play. End result - I will hate them with a vengeance and seriously revisit my no piracy policy. Oh, and PPL gets less money.

Anyway, rant over. Oh and Nintendo, you suck too.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

Was going all right in that article till you hit a little snag:
You're telling me I don't exist, and that people like me don't exist. :X

People who decide to watch a lets play rather than buy/play a game. I infact do it quite often, sometimes even for games I already own. So you know, don't say that's not how people act, cause if it's how I act, then there's guaranteed to be many others(even based on others admitting as much in threads and the like), and considering lets plays are so popular it kinda proves exactly that.

Fair enough it's dodgy taking all ad revenue, but saying straight up no one uses lets plays as a substitute for buying/playing a game is simply incorrect.

 

[Dooly95]

Let me preface this with "I'm not a Nintendo fan." But, I guess it won't bloody matter because I'm going to be painted in that broad brush where I'm either with you, or not.

Did Ninty go overboard for chump change? Yes. Thousand times yes.

However, is everyone blowing this totally out of proportion? Yes.

One. If you are doing LPs for monetary gain, you are in the wrong field. There are different, better ways of getting revenue. From what I gather, LPs take a shit load of time to produce for minimal gain. If you are making money off this, then yes, I think you can try something else that Nintendo can't claim is theirs.

Duo. If you are doing LPs for fun, then how does this change anything? You still put in the effort, but you do it for the sake of your hobby, not because you want money. Will it leave a bad taste in your mouth? I guess, but then no one is forcing a gun to your head to make LPs of Mario or Zelda.

III. Free advertising. I would really like to see how LPs riffing on a game sell more games than professional marketing does. Like, actual numbers, not anecdotal. I mean, if this is true, then the whole marketing team should be fired.

Why were you looking into this LP for this game? Because you were interested in it initially, in which case the LP wouldn't have mattered. Or, you were interested in the people doing the LPs themselves, in which case it wouldn't have mattered what game they covered, because you're watching for the personalities. They could be commenting on a movie, a TV show, or a phone call.

tl;dr, Nintendo is being douches; everyone believes they're the next Hitler. Some perspective might be nice.

 

[TAdamson]

Was this handled very well, not really. But by people not getting paid to play the game, more quality LPs will probably be noticed because the person isn't playing it for the money, they're playing it because they like the game. At least Nintendo wasn't like Sega, who outright flagged, and as a result, destroyed several channels just for the mere mention of a game.
If you want more on this topic, I recommend you listen to this podcast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYplcqazWCA

You know this doesn't just affect LPs don't you? News, reviews, commentary and analysis will also be affected by content matching.

 

[TAdamson]

Let me preface this with "I'm not a Nintendo fan." But, I guess it won't bloody matter because I'm going to be painted in that broad brush where I'm either with you, or not.

Did Ninty go overboard for chump change? Yes. Thousand times yes.

However, is everyone blowing this totally out of proportion? Yes.

One. If you are doing LPs for monetary gain, you are in the wrong field. There are different, better ways of getting revenue. From what I gather, LPs take a shit load of time to produce for minimal gain. If you are making money off this, then yes, I think you can try something else that Nintendo can't claim is theirs.

Duo. If you are doing LPs for fun, then how does this change anything? You still put in the effort, but you do it for the sake of your hobby, not because you want money. Will it leave a bad taste in your mouth? I guess, but then no one is forcing a gun to your head to make LPs of Mario or Zelda.

III. Free advertising. I would really like to see how LPs riffing on a game sell more games than professional marketing does. Like, actual numbers, not anecdotal. I mean, if this is true, then the whole marketing team should be fired.

Why were you looking into this LP for this game? Because you were interested in it initially, in which case the LP wouldn't have mattered. Or, you were interested in the people doing the LPs themselves, in which case it wouldn't have mattered what game they covered, because you're watching for the personalities. They could be commenting on a movie, a TV show, or a phone call.

tl;dr, Nintendo is being douches; everyone believes they're the next Hitler. Some perspective might be nice.

It's not just let's plays. It's also news and reviews. This is a "content matching" problem.

 

[Something Amyss]

Nintendo might have the right to do this. They certainly have the power to do this. But either way, it's an asinine and foolhardy move.

Aaaaaand /topic

This is a bad move, even if it's their right. And it might be their right. This is shaky ground.

Has totalbiscuit come down on this yet? I want to see if he'll give up his fellatio towards the games industry now that there's a precedent that directly impacts him.

Surely, surely, we've realised that they think we're just ambulatory wallets-of-plenty with no purpose in "life" other than absorbing whatever dross they spew forth while simultaneously shovelling mountains of dosh their way.

It's funny, because a lot of them seem to think they're entitled to our money and our patronage. I'm surprised we don't see more rage when we don't buy their products in sufficient numbers. Just as they don't owe us anything, we don't owe them anything. Yet so many of them get pissy when a bad product doesn't sell or gets called bad.

I'm not sure if this applies to Nintendo, but the timing that they've decided to pull this at a time when their new flagship is floundering makes me wonder if this is related to those expectations.

Now, when you tell people they aren't getting paid, they're all butt hurt about it and refuse to play the game, even if they love it.

They're just not going to showcase it. There's a difference.

If getting paid is the reason you do video LP's then I don't think you should be doing them in the first place.

If it's the sole reason, perhaps, but that's not the case for everyone. In fact, I seriously doubt anyone has ever gotten into LPs specifically because of profit. It's not exactly easy to get noticed to the point you're worth making money, and I doubt anyone's going to do it for free long enough with enough creative effort to put together something people will notice.

Also, plenty of people WILL be doing Nintendo games after this. Not because they get paid to do it, but because they love doing it.

People who will more than likely get fewer views and be less beneficial to Nintendo as a result.

I mean if you worked 4 years on a horror game and someone completely destroys the atmosphere for people seeing the game for the first time by making random jokes about irrelevant stuff, is it wrong of the developer to say they don't want that video to be making that person a profit?

It's not wrong to say you don't want it. It might not be your right, however, to do anything about it.

I think this reasoning is silly, though. If you're going into a comedy LP for your first viewing of a horror game, you're not going in for the atmosphere. You're going in for the laughs.

The ultimate issue, however, remains one of the selective nature of "right." It might be "right" to alienate your fanbase from alegal or technical standpoint, but it's still a wrong move to make from a consumer/pr standpoint.

And don't the people who work for 4 years on a game have a right to decide who can make a profit on it?

Often times the people who work for 4 years on a game have NO say in who can make profit on it. I hope you understand that. However, once released to the public a certain amount of control is lost. Nintendo is even going after videos where Fair Use should be an issue. And that opens up bigger issues about media coverage.