Nintendo Wins Big in French Copying Case

[Garethp]

Okay, this may be a strange position to take, but here I go

I support anti-piracy efforts. Make no mistake, I'm a pirate myself. I don't have the money or the time or the patience to grab games I want and have a physical copy. And carry it around. There are three consoles that I don't pirate. PS3, XBox 360 and PC. Now, the last one may seem like a bit of a weird choice to not pirate on, but allow me to explain. PS3: I have PSN and I don't play PS3 that much. My library is limited to like 7 games. I don't switch between games. XBox 360: I have like 10 games. PC: Steam. I have near 100 games.

So why do I have so many legit games for PC, and next to none for everything else? Well, the PS3 and Xbox 360 are a pain to mod, and I like online. As for discs? Like fuck I'm going to use them. I want my games to switch on demand. I have a short attention span. If I'm gaming for a day or more, I'll play 5 or so games often. Per Console. And this is the 21st century, why would I want to switch discs? That's effort I dislike. Steam is easy to get, reasonable prices and easy switching in the library

My handhelds and PS2? Modded, downloaded games. Naturally. Why? Because I live in Australia. Handheld games are anywhere from $60 to $100. And when I'm on a console, I don't know what I want to play, I might play 10 games in the space of 3 hours, just switching around. I might be on a bus and decide to have another round of Dissidia. I want all of my games with me at all times. In my pocket. With my phone and wallet.

What has this got to do with anti-piracy? Well, I'm explaining that, even though I pirate (and with good reasons I believe), I don't believe it's my right to. I know I'm breaking the law. And I believe that publishers have the right to try and stop me

Now here's where my point gets more interesting.

I don't support this decision. I mean, it's good that they're trying to crack down on piracy, but you know what I believe in more than a companies right to stop piracy? A persons right to use their console as they see fit. They bought it. Hell, I'd be so pro-Nintendo if they said "Okay, from now on we're having an app store which will be open for all DS consoles, free Dev tools, and we'll only take down apps that help you pirate", like the Android Market. And while that's not in effect, any decisions that stops a person from doing as they please with their own payed for console, that's just wrong in every sense of the term.

TL;DR
Fighting piracy is good, restricting what you can do with your console is bad
No, I don't know how to do a middle ground, except with an open app store
Figure it out yourself

 

[Jabberwock King]

While I'm all for ranting about how the 2nd amendment is an outdated law that conservatives refuse to give up, I seriously don't understand why it's even mentioned here. Did you have it on your mind when you were writing this and you didn't have enough sleep or something?

I don't understand your cat picture in a video game comment section. You're really going to give him shit over this?

I see what you did there, but the statement he made simply felt out of place and irrelevant to the point at hand. As for the cat picture, I felt that it best communicated my slight bewilderment.

 

[deckai]

The problem is that Nintendo paints a picture of these are ONLY FOR PIRACY. While the vast majority of users are probably using it for piracy, it is not the only function of it.

Because to Nintendo, every use of the R4 is considered as pirating.

Lets compare using an R4 (or similar device) to jailbreaking an iphone (which is perfectly legal). Jailbreaking an iphone allows you to run unofficial apps. Using an R4 allows you to run homebrew. Jailbreaking an iphone allows you install paid apps for free. Using an R4 allows you to play pirated games.

So why are R4's illegal, while jaibreaking an iphone is legal?

The easiest answer would be, because the R4 is a device that CAN be forbidden, jailbreaking is usually done without specialized devices or just by software, trying to ban either one is impossible. And yeah, since you lose your warranty it isn't really legal either.

As for the people that disagree with the argument of its more convenient to have an R4 then a bunch of game I have this to say: Have you ever walked around with MULTIPLE game cases? Yes DS cards are small, but if you are going out and want some variety you have to bring a lot of cases. Over the year I have owned a number of DS cases, and the most one ever held that I owned was 8. So having my Pokemon games in one took up most of one case, not to mention Mario kart, Star Fox, New Super Mario Bros, and all the various other games I might want to play.

Well yes, I have, and not only for the DS, Years ago I also had the old Gameboy(Yes, that gray brick of plastic) and I still managed to travel with several games at a time. If I had to travel for a long time I always had a big enough backpack/case for my whole library, several spare batteries, rechargeable batteries and several chargers, plus clothing and any other device I might have needed on my journey. And if I didn't have to travel for so long, than why oh why do I needed so many games? So that I could swap them every 2 minutes?

Sorry that I find having no cases, and one cartridge much more convenient. Not to mention between carrying my DS, my PSP. my Zune, my cell phone, and all the various chargers my pockets were stuffed.

I guess I found your problem, you carry too much junk with you. Come on, I seriously doubt that you always need to carry all that junk with you.
Maybe you need to restrict yourself, and assign a few priorities.


I'm with Nintendo on this, fact is, the R4 was mainly used for piracy, too bad for the few people who didn't used it for it, but in this case you should blame the pirates and not Nintendo. A company (you know, people who work and have families to feed) is loosing millions because of the misuse, and the only argument the people have, it's convenient to use the R4. And CONVENIENCE is never a justification for illegal activities.

 

[night_chrono]

The easiest answer would be, because the R4 is a device that CAN be forbidden, jailbreaking is usually done without specialized devices or just by software, trying to ban either one is impossible. And yeah, since you lose your warranty it isn't really legal either.

Modchips have never been banned before (at lest to my knowledge). Nintendo didn't spend any time shutting down people who made various wii modchips. Yes the difference is that you have to open your wii, but there were plenty of no solder mod chips that took a grand total of 2 minutes to put in. The point I was trying to make is that a LEGAL PRECEDENCE is being ignored.

Well yes, I have, and not only for the DS, Years ago I also had the old Gameboy(Yes, that gray brick of plastic) and I still managed to travel with several games at a time. If I had to travel for a long time I always had a big enough backpack/case for my whole library, several spare batteries, rechargeable batteries and several chargers, plus clothing and any other device I might have needed on my journey. And if I didn't have to travel for so long, than why oh why do I needed so many games? So that I could swap them every 2 minutes?

If I was going to school I would bring most of my games cause I have no idea what my friends are bringing. If I were going to visit family I would bring all of my games cause I have no idea what my brother/cousins are bringing. I have no intention of playing every game I bring, but that doesn't mean I don't like having options. Yes I could always have an extra bag JUST for my games, but which is more ridiculous: Going out and buying a backpack just to carry tons of unnecessary stuff around, or go buy a PERFECTLY LEGAL device that eliminates the need to carry anything extra?

I guess I found your problem, you carry too much junk with you. Come on, I seriously doubt that you always need to carry all that junk with you.
Maybe you need to restrict yourself, and assign a few priorities.

Well Zune and phone serve two separate functions so they stay. So all that's left is the PSP which going back to what I was saying earlier I like to have options.

I'm with Nintendo on this, fact is, the R4 was mainly used for piracy, too bad for the few people who didn't used it for it, but in this case you should blame the pirates and not Nintendo. A company (you know, people who work and have families to feed) is loosing millions because of the misuse,

I understand that they are out to make a profit. I never said they aren't entitled to compensation for their work. Now going back to the age old argument; Piracy IS NOT lost sales. Pirates (for the most part) are not out there downloading just for the sake of making companies lose money. If anyone tells you that they (or a company) has lost any significant amount of money from piracy, tell them to prove it. Until someone goes around handing people the exact dollar amount they need to legally purchase the product and asking them if they will now go and buy it, anything anyone tells you about lost income is just blowing smoke.

and the only argument the people have, it's convenient to use the R4. And CONVENIENCE is never a justification for illegal activities.

I wanted to take a moment for this statement. Why? Because it proves how remarkably moronic you are. The ENTIRE point I have been making is that when using the device for the sake of convenience IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL.

 

[deckai]

Modchips have never been banned before (at lest to my knowledge). Nintendo didn't spend any time shutting down people who made various wii modchips. Yes the difference is that you have to open your wii, but there were plenty of no solder mod chips that took a grand total of 2 minutes to put in. The point I was trying to make is that a LEGAL PRECEDENCE is being ignored.

Yes it's true that modchips are legal, but as you said, by opening your console and installing 3rd party hardware you loose your warranty and the company can easily ban/lock/blacklist that particular console as soon as you go online with it. The use of the R4 doesn't has any consequences.

If I was going to school I would bring most of my games cause I have no idea what my friends are bringing. If I were going to visit family I would bring all of my games cause I have no idea what my brother/cousins are bringing. I have no intention of playing every game I bring, but that doesn't mean I don't like having options. Yes I could always have an extra bag JUST for my games, but which is more ridiculous: Going out and buying a backpack just to carry tons of unnecessary stuff around, or go buy a PERFECTLY LEGAL device that eliminates the need to carry anything extra?

Well Zune and phone serve two separate functions so they stay. So all that's left is the PSP which going back to what I was saying earlier I like to have options.

How about using your cell-phone and coordinate the whole thing a little bit, as said before a little bit of restriction is never bad. But I guess that is too much to ask for.

I understand that they are out to make a profit. I never said they aren't entitled to compensation for their work. Now going back to the age old argument; Piracy IS NOT lost sales. Pirates (for the most part) are not out there downloading just for the sake of making companies lose money. If anyone tells you that they (or a company) has lost any significant amount of money from piracy, tell them to prove it. Until someone goes around handing people the exact dollar amount they need to legally purchase the product and asking them if they will now go and buy it, anything anyone tells you about lost income is just blowing smoke.

While I agree that the amount of money companies loose is usually exaggerated. But if your really think that piracy doesn't hurt the sales, than go on and live in your small dreamworld.

I wanted to take a moment for this statement. Why? Because it proves how remarkably moronic you are. The ENTIRE point I have been making is that when using the device for the sake of convenience IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL.

It's only LEGAL as long as the device is LEGAL. But if the device is used mainly for illegal activities (And piracy is a illegal activity) the LAW is authorized to ban this device. As said before, too bad for the few people that used the R4 for non-piracy reasons, but the R4 wasn't banned because of them and they need to bear the consequences because of the others. But I guess insulting others is always the stronger argument... in which case... I have nothing.

 

[night_chrono]

Yes it's true that modchips are legal, but as you said, by opening your console and installing 3rd party hardware you loose your warranty and the company can easily ban/lock/blacklist that particular console as soon as you go online with it. The use of the R4 doesn't has any consequences.

First of all Nintendo can't ban you for using a modchip in your Wii. The only confirmed banning's from Nintendo was due to online cheating. Secondly using the R4 does void your warranty.

"THIS WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF THIS PRODUCT: (a) IS USED WITH PRODUCTS NOT SOLD OR LICENSED BY NINTENDO (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, NON-LICENSED GAME ENHANCEMENT AND COPIER DEVICES, ADAPTERS, AND POWER SUPPLIES);" http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/manuals/warrantytext_eng.jsp

How about using your cell-phone and coordinate the whole thing a little bit, as said before a little bit of restriction is never bad. But I guess that is too much to ask for.

Right on top of getting up and getting ready for school in the morning let me call the dozens of people I would play games with on a daily basis and find out the games they were bringing. Or find time the night before in between work, homework, and other activities. Going back to my previous argument of which is more unreasonable.

While I agree that the amount of money companies loose is usually exaggerated. But if your really think that piracy doesn't hurt the sales, than go on and live in your small dreamworld.

Did I say that it doesn't have SOME impact on sales? Sounds like you are in the dream world.

It's only LEGAL as long as the device is LEGAL. But if the device is used mainly for illegal activities (And piracy is a illegal activity) the LAW is authorized to ban this device. As said before, too bad for the few people that used the R4 for non-piracy reasons, but the R4 wasn't banned because of them and they need to bear the consequences because of the others. But I guess insulting others is always the stronger argument... in which case... I have nothing.

Right and the device was previous legal, and has since been declared illegal once Nintendo started flashing money around the court system. While other devices/software that accomplishes THE EXACT SAME THING remain legal, and have been declared legal in court.

I wouldn't be insulting you if you actually took a second to consider what I am saying. Stop going with "cause it's illegal" and open your mind. Formulate your own opinions and do your own fact finding.

 

[deckai]

First of all Nintendo can't ban you for using a modchip in your Wii. The only confirmed banning's from Nintendo was due to online cheating. Secondly using the R4 does void your warranty.

"THIS WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF THIS PRODUCT: (a) IS USED WITH PRODUCTS NOT SOLD OR LICENSED BY NINTENDO (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, NON-LICENSED GAME ENHANCEMENT AND COPIER DEVICES, ADAPTERS, AND POWER SUPPLIES);" http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/manuals/warrantytext_eng.jsp

Than can you please tell me, how Nintendo can prove that you used the R4?

Right on top of getting up and getting ready for school in the morning let me call the dozens of people I would play games with on a daily basis and find out the games they were bringing. Or find time the night before in between work, homework, and other activities. Going back to my previous argument of which is more unreasonable.

Then how about restricting yourself? Ah, I forgot self-restraint is overrated. There is always a game that's popular right now, and if you want to play something else you can always agree upon something, especially in times with so many different ways of communication.

Did I say that it doesn't have SOME impact on sales? Sounds like you are in the dream world.

Then why do we discuss this, if you admit that piracy is hurting the sales, than every company has the rights to persecute them.

Right and the device was previous legal, and has since been declared illegal once Nintendo started flashing money around the court system. While other devices/software that accomplishes THE EXACT SAME THING remain legal, and have been declared legal in court.

*facepalm* Really, that's your argument "Because it was previous legal".. you know how many thing were once legal that are now illegal? Several countries have already banned the R4, and every single country has looked at the case and decided for themselves that a device that is mainly used for illegal activities has no right to be sold legally. Oh but I forgot, every single court is corrupt and doesn't care for the small consumer.

And do you know why they can't ban the other things, because there is no prove that they were being used for mainly illegal activities, or the devices/software are so numerous that they every major attempt in trying to ban them would fail.

I wouldn't be insulting you if you actually took a second to consider what I am saying. Stop going with "cause it's illegal" and open your mind. Formulate your own opinions and do your own fact finding.

Really, I don't care anymore, what other reason do I need? It's banned because people used it for illegal activities. And I don't have the patience to repeat myself with every single post, too bad for the few with no ill intend, but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

Oh and I won't post on this thread anymore, it's pretty much dead. But if you really see the need to continue this argument, feel free to pm me.

 

[Erana]

Fighting piracy is nice and all, but what I have issue with is that a precedent has been set here.

And setting legal precedents for restricting consumers is a scary and dangerous thing for the consumer.

 

[Beautiful End]

How is it that some people are STILL defending this card, when it's obviously illegal in so many ways but most people still hate on used games, which are perfectly legal?

This card literally steals original Nintendo games. This is a crime. Useful, yes, no one is denying that, but a crime nonetheless. Yet people make such a big fuss when a used game is sold, even though the developer does see some profit from that sale, one way or another. People keep complaining about how the developer loses money but it seems they're willing to lose money themselves just to make the developers happy. That's fine and noble, but why is it that in a case like this, where we lose from this and developers win, people get their panties in a bunch?

I just don't get people...

Something a little more on-topic: I was actually offered one of these before by a friend but I found that there were not enough DS games that caught my attention in order to make me wanna get a DS and this card. Sorry, Nintendo. Your few good games are exactly that: good in every way. But just a handful of them is not enough to make me go back to you.