No MMORPG has done it right.

Erana

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When I was young, and the only MMOs out there seemed to be MUDs and Everquest, I wanted to play an MMORPG. Games had always been a starting point for my imagination, rather than a brain rotter, so the idea of adventuring around with a bunch of other people in for a grand adventure was grand.
Years later, I catch wind of half decent 3-D MMOs available for free, so I give it a go. I downloaded Fiesta, and started playing. It was exciting to have others to talk with, to fight with, to dance with, but when I reached level 20, I realised what had brought me to that level. It was the expectation for a grand adventure.
I felt like I was preparing for the actual game, yet to come.
I have tried many other games, but they are all the same. Each one filling me with anticipation, as if the Level cap that everyone yearns for will bring some sort of glory.
But there is nothing.

This leads me to how they all get it wrong. Sure, these games are massive, played by many, and online, and they are obviously some sort of game, but they lack the element of Role playing. Sure, people become attached to their avatar, but no one is the paladin or the swordsman, or the mage, or the frog man. They talk about the lives of the characters they are supposed to depict in general terms, like "Damage dealer," and "Tank."

My second point is about the world itself. the only time I have felt like I was playing a genuine role playing game was in Perfect World, where I took my level 20 character into the level 90 arctic tundra, narrowly avoiding the monsters while seeing all there was to see. It felt refreshing, and gave the same feeling as being outside in the wilderness, though to a far lesser degree.

Why is it that the most spiritually enriching thing in all of these games is an activity that was never intended to be? Am I the only one who feels that, "MMORPG" is an extreme misnomer?
 

PurpleRain

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Well WoW, City of Heroes, Age of Conan, Guild War, etc all make quite a bit of money pulling in fans, so I guess they did something right.
 

LordCraigus

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Totally agree Erana, I played WoW until about level 20, I always felt like all this level building will lead me on epic adventures in the future. When I did my first dungeon raid or whatever I realised this isn't exactly the epic adventure I was hoping for, that's when you lose the immersion and, if you're someone like me, you lose interest.
 

swatmajor1

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Jan 3, 2008
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Finally, a post that states the obvious. Well, I think that if there was a MMOFPS, that would be awesome. Where levelling up could be for weapon training, usage and other random abilities, such as stealth, assassination, and such.

And all of this would be through the eyes of the character you play as, so you feel more involved.
 

AmrasCalmacil

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Three words, although I guess they don't really help some people.

Role Play Realm

Which... Only really works if you find one that isn't full of hooting dickholes.
 

Knight Templar

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PurpleRain said:
Well WoW, City of Heroes, Age of Conan, Guild War, etc all make quite a bit of money pulling in fans, so I guess they did something right.
If I steal your soul and call it an orange, thats not a very good orange is it?
 

AmrasCalmacil

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Knight Templar said:
PurpleRain said:
Well WoW, City of Heroes, Age of Conan, Guild War, etc all make quite a bit of money pulling in fans, so I guess they did something right.
If I steal your soul and call it an orange, thats not a very good orange is it?
Was that supposed to prove something?
 

Fatalis67

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I honestly can't find much immersion in a game where clicking something twice then getting up and having a snack will cause you to kill it. I don't understand how people get so hopelessly addicted to WoW and such, I played WoW for a month and after a few hours I had a really hard time staying interested for more than a few minutes.
 

Brett Alex

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Fatalis67 said:
I don't understand how people get so hopelessly addicted to WoW and such, I played WoW for a month and after a few hours I had a really hard time staying interested for more than a few minutes.
Seeing as you only played for a month chances are you only experienced a small, small fraction of the game, meaning you've missed an awful lot of the content. I'm not knocking you, its just that the game wasn't interesting for you and so you never achieved the immersion or enjoyment that would have inspired you to see more of this content. It all depends on what you think is worthwhile, and obviously you don't find MMORPGs addictive.

Back on topic.
Erana said:
Am I the only one who feels that, "MMORPG" is an extreme misnomer?
I don't think its a misnomer, most of these MMORPGs aren't failing to live up to the genre, in fact, they are the genre. It seems like your looking for a genre that isn't an MMO and your trying to fit MMOs into that pre-conceived notion you have. It would be like buying a copy of Counter Strike, then criticizing it for not letting you command entire armies from an overheard view while harvesting resources and building a base. You'll find it a massive letdown, because you are playing the wrong genre of game to what you are looking for.

EDIT: fixed something I left out
 

Danny Ocean

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Armitage Shanks said:
Erana said:
Am I the only one who feels that, "MMORPG" is an extreme misnomer?
I don't think its a misnomer, most of these MMORPGs aren't failing to live up to the genre, in fact, they are the genre. It seems like your looking for a genre that isn't an MMO and your trying to fit MMOs into that pre-conceived notion you have. It would be like buying a copy of Counter Strike, then criticizing it for not letting you command entire armies from an overheard view while harvesting resources and building a base. You'll find it a massive letdown, because you are playing the wrong genre of game to what you are looking for.
I think what he means is that MMOs are too much MMO and not enough RPG. He's right, there's never any role play involved, you never really 'carve your own path' and you can never truly be unique. For a real RPG to exist it would need some kind of content editing system so people could make themselves look unique, and it would need random quests for people to have a unique story behind their character.

Too much game not enough Roleplay and character developement, it isn't just stats.

Also, what does it mean when people are on 'Probation'?
 

Alex_P

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Mar 27, 2008
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HBrutusH said:
Also, what does it mean when people are on 'Probation'?
It's being halfway to a temporary ban. You did something the mods didn't like so they put you on notice not to do it again, basically.

-- Alex
 

Alex_P

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"It's more fun to daydream about this than actually play it" -- sounds like an RPG to me.

-- Alex
 

HSIAMetalKing

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See, this is why I always play on RP realms. WoW had an excellent one called Moon Guard-- the huge population of roleplayers on that server is one of the reasons I played WoW for so long.

Earlier this year I got really excited about Age of Conan. I got into the Early Access program, and was shocked to see that there was no RP server, despite the fact that they had promised to give me one. Turns out that the server that was supposed to be the RP server had been "mislabeled" as PvP, causing it to be filled with
AmrasCalmacil said:
hooting dickholes
from day one, which ruined everything forever. Sigh.

Warhammer, I'm counting on you.
 

Rabid Toilet

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Erana said:
This leads me to how they all get it wrong. Sure, these games are massive, played by many, and online, and they are obviously some sort of game, but they lack the element of Role playing. Sure, people become attached to their avatar, but no one is the paladin or the swordsman, or the mage, or the frog man. They talk about the lives of the characters they are supposed to depict in general terms, like "Damage dealer," and "Tank."
Which is exactly why I want them to make The World into an actual game. If it were exactly like it is in the shows/games, I think that would be what you are looking for. A game where people really become their characters, and everyone takes it seriously.

The only game I've played that comes anywhere close is Mabinogi, simply because you can play the game any way you want, and you aren't limited to your class' role. There aren't any classes, you can get any skills you want to have, and your equipment is based almost entirely on what you yourself want to look like, since most of the armor and weapons have similar stats.

Alas, I doubt we will ever get a true experience like The World, since there are always some immature people or hackers to mess it up for the rest of us. Still, it would be pretty sweet.
 

IShade

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I understand what you're saying Erana, the terms that they've come up with, the repetitive killing of monsters, and the constant lack of playing the role of your character. In my opinion (I use WoW as my example because I fucking love it), World of Warcraft would be much more fun on a RP server, but when I first started I had no idea what roleplaying was and I severly regret that now. When doing a dungeon (instance) it shouldnt be about just getting through it without "wiping." It should be about having fun and gaining a few profits along the way. Well that's all I have to say.
 

Cianide

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HBrutusH said:
I think what he means is that MMOs are too much MMO and not enough RPG. He's right, there's never any role play involved, you never really 'carve your own path' and you can never truly be unique. For a real RPG to exist it would need some kind of content editing system so people could make themselves look unique, and it would need random quests for people to have a unique story behind their character.

Too much game not enough Roleplay and character developement, it isn't just stats.
I agree. I also feel that in almost all MMOs you aren't really having an effect on the world or events, so you can never become completely immersed. Being able to choose between good and evil, and law and chaos, has always been the thing that makes me feel like my character is important, has a history, a reputation, etc.

If you want to play a really good role-playing game online where you can feel immmersed and invloved, try Neverwinter Nights 2.

So, back on topic, because no MMORPGs have done what Neverwinter Nights does, no MMORPGs have "done it right."
 

geldonyetich

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I'm in the same boat as Erana (perhaps a fellow Hero Quest series fan?) is in here.

MMORPGs are generally quite shallow. If you've played EverQuest long enough, World of Warcraft holds very little new for you. Most MMORPGs have emulated one or the other. Few really got it right.

Of all the MMORPGs out there, I can recommend only three, for different reasons, each with their own drawbacks:

City of Heroes -- For getting the "G" in MMORPG quite well done. If you approach it as a grind, you'll be disappointed, but approach it as a game and there's quite a lot of fun to be had here. The main drawback of this game is a fairly unsatisfying end game - there's really nothing to do at 50 except pick up the badges you missed on the way up.

Final Fantasy XI -- For doing what EverQuest did best even better than the original. The console-like interface takes some getting used to, but after that you're pretty much set. The world is gorgeous, to the point where it's a joy simply to slowly plod your way through. The Renkai system actually provides a pretty challenging mechanic to master, making it well worth playing. The main drawback of this game (besides the GUI) is that it's not very casual friendly at all - you need a lot of hours to spend on finding groups for this game.

EverQuest 2 -- EverQuest 2, surprisingly enough, is not EverQuest. FFXI is more EQ than EQ2 is. EverQuest 2 is a casual-friendly game with remarkably good detail into three main activities: Adventure, Trade Skills, and Housing. The result is a really nice game for fleshing out your character. EverQuest 2 is also the most technically advanced MMORPG in existence, with incredible detail in every pour of the world and characters.

On the downside, those skin-deep impressions will wear down in time (and some people never liked the style). In the long run, the casual-friendly emphasis severely caps the overall depth the game might have been capable of, and it's hard to even find players to want to play with you because it's so solo-friendly.

You'll notice that World of Warcraft isn't on that list. It's because World of Warcraft is basically the McDonalds of MMORPGs. 10 billion served, sure, but it's basically just a streamlined fast-food MMORPG experience. Its popularity doesn't make World of Warcraft a fabulous game any moreso than McDonalds popularity makes it a five-star dining experience.

World of Warcraft is not a terrible game, exactly. The game mechanic is smoothed over by a nice application of Blizzard magic. However, I'd be lying to say it was anything more than a really streamlined and spit-shined EverQuest. It owes most of its popularity to being a decent game with a fabulous Blizzard fan following leading the charge to the bandwagon.

When push comes to shove, the OP is right, no MMORPG has really done it "right". In a desire to both please the lucrative casual gamers market while dealing with the overhead that the massively multiplayer platform introduces, it seems unlikely any MMORPG will do so. You're better off trying to create a NWN2 mod or something, for all the likelihood it's going to happen.
 

AmrasCalmacil

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I'd say Neverwinter Nights 2 couldn't compare to the Baldur's Gate games, but that's rather off topic.

I'd like to point out that the whole 'Too much game not enough Roleplay' arguement is pretty damn void on a good roleplaying server.