No Right Answer: America's Greatest Obsession Ever

[New Troll]

I'm personally obsessed with sex. Violence, I can personally live without. In media though, violence all the way!

 

[KaZuYa]

Guns.

By far the biggest and most dangerous American obsession, You have a multi billion dollar industry who are selling guns to any and everyone all based on the biggest and obvious con ever.

It's written into the constitution so it's the be all and end all, I mean come on guys that's the bullshit religion pulls, disregard common sense and any inklings of humanity all because it's written down and your politicians say anyone attacking it is un-American. They aren't doing that for your sake they are doing it to protect the money which fills their pockets.

Ignoring the debate about American military action overseas, Look at Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. During that attack, 20 first-grade children aged six and seven were killed. Yet your politicians would rather that happen again than ban guns its sick and unbelievable to the rest of the world. People try to say it only happened because the kid was mentally disturbed and it's not gun ownership but the checks done for said ownership. Again utter bullshit fuelled by the Gun companies, Humans are not predictable, profiling doesn't work and people can snap at any point, it's access to guns that is the problem.

We have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Don't think that's a legit issue? Let's take a look at the NSA snooping on everyone's phone records, or how the Boston police raided several homes without warrants. Those things happened just this year.

It's the tyrannical government who's selling you those guns and defending your right to own them, but then what your talking about is the even bigger con "democracy", it doesn't exist.

 

[RJ 17]

While I would say that both do qualify as things that we Americans are "obsessed" about, I'd say the point goes to Violence. Kyle's point about the evening news is probably the best example of this. You don't hear about how many people got laid or how many hot chicks there were at the beach on a given day, you're hearing about how many people got shot, kidnapped, raped, etc. Why? Because it gets the ratings.

Again, Kyle brings up the tv aspect. You can turn on almost any given channel and expect to see some sort of violence, while there's only a select few channels that will show sexualized content. Movies are much the same: how many porn flicks have you gone to your local cinema to watch? How many action (and therefor violent) movies have you gone to see? Outside of Japanese imports, how many videogames have you played that openly depicted sex/sexual content? How many depict action/violence? To be fair there are plenty of games with large-breasted women in scantily clad clothing...but those aren't purely sexual games, those games more often than not are based primarily on violence with the big bewbies on the side as further appeal to the "stereotypical male gamer." Yet we have plenty of games out there that are based purely on violence with little to no sex-appeal at all.

Sex is prevalent in our society, but violence dominates it.

 

[JenSeven]

Here's my two cents.

Sex when not exaggerated, forced on someone or just when sex itself is abused in some way (culturally) is not harmful. Sex in most cases is a very positive thing.
Violence, I cannot think of a positive use for it. When violence is applied to a situation that already means it has passed the point to when reason and knowledge can be applied. There cannot be a positive result when reason and knowledge are abandoned.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Well, I would say that Sex is the more prominent of the two in that we think of it more often and that even for "normal" people it shapes more of our lives than we may even be consciously aware. It's not just the obvious things like people trying to go out and have sex, but the more subtle ways it evades our thoughts. It's a very implicit thing.

However, if you want to talk about the most damaging obsession(I don't think the two are one and the same), that would be violence. While violence is in shown in media more often without care to hide it like we do with sex, but doesn't have a direct effect on us(violent media will not make someone violent). The people who really become obsessed with violence, real or fake(to the point they become unstable). They can actually go out in the world, and(I would argue, with too much ease) hurt or kill people.

"Since 1982, there have been at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

In short; Sex is always on the thoughts of most people, but sex won't kill. Violence will.

 

[Xman490]

If you want lots of views, you should pick an edgier title like "Tits and/or Guns in America". The current title made me think it was going to be Beatlemania vs. Twilight or some other pop culture phenomenon.

Even worse, the representative images are cartoons, which doesn't make sense because people are not obsessed with those particular cartoons.

We have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Don't think that's a legit issue? Let's take a look at the NSA snooping on everyone's phone records, or how the Boston police raided several homes without warrants. Those things happened just this year.

Except such a tyrannical government does not exist anymore. Amendments 2 through 4 addressed wrongdoings because British soldiers were committing them. Not even those soldiers were working under tyranny, as Britain has had its Parliament for centuries up until and beyond that time period.

Now, that doesn't mean the "right to bear arms" and "protection against unreasonable searches and seizures" are pointless today. They just need to be given clarity and purpose in this modern world. Perhaps police brutality will near Syrian levels, and perhaps full-on searches of people's personal lives will be made just for stating the word "jihad." I doubt we're at those points.

 

[Darth_Payn]

I think we should put disclaimers on our viewpoints.

Like personally, even though I'm a dude, I'm not highly sexual. I like it ok, but I can easily do other things with my time.

Now to the point of the matter; I would love people to classify what we are as humans. I mean if I merely mention the fact that as a classification, humans fall under 'animal'... people lose their minds. 'No, we're not animals! We're humans! How can you even say that?'

But we are animals. We have animal needs, even if we want to believe we're so civilized. We have a need for territory, we have hunger and entertainment needs, needs for survival, and yes... sexual needs. Expressing it, even 'obsessing' about it is not bad until you add one factor into it.

Violence.

Violence is also a basic animal response, but it's wholly a negative one. At the very, very, VERY benign end of violence... it's used to shame another and possibly to take his or her rank. Even playful violence is used to dominate another in some fashion.

Sex is mutual. It's freely given to another. Some aspects of sex we're not all comfortable with (whips and chains, orgies, etc), but as long as everyone is a willful participant, who is it hurting? The only time sex turns bad is when you do add violence, and then it becomes rape. It becomes taking from another, hurting them, and then dominating them for years to come... even when you left.

As for body image, I don't have a great one. Face or Body. I have admittedly compared myself to those men who are considered attractive and thought 'if I looked like that, maybe women would want me'... but I never felt as bad as when I got rejected by women. The rejection never registered with 'Oh, if I was sexier, she'd want me'. It always made me feel like I was just bad as a person.

I work out to feel better. I work out to try to reclaim some self esteem. But never to be sexy. Because I know sexy isn't finite. It isn't a definable thing that if everyone follows this, we'll all be sexy as well. One girl might think I was developed just to turn her on. A friend of hers stomachs the way I look because I'm nice. They might agree on everything else in life but my attractiveness. So why should I assume all anyone cares about is how ugly I am when even best friends don't share opinions about attractiveness?

Let's see.... sex is ok, violence never is, body image... I think that's it. Yeah, I discussed. Yay me.

YES!!! You win all the internets! This is the smartest, most eloquent post I've ever read here. It makes everything make sense now.

If you want lots of views, you should pick an edgier title like "Tits and/or Guns in America". The current title made me think it was going to be Beatlemania vs. Twilight or some other pop culture phenomenon.

Edit: Game of Thrones is a really good example for how sex and violence are intertwined.

Spoiler: Spoilers for the last season of the show

Look at the torture of Theon Greyjoy. In the books, it doesn't take place in real time, and you never get a full description of what happens to him; you only see the aftereffects. In the show, they spend a lot of time breaking him, with lots of torture.

But what is the most memorable scene? It's the one with the prostitutes (or maybe just unethical women) where they strip Theon down, get him ready for sex, then stand aside to let Bolton cut off his genitals. As far as I remember, there was no such thing in the books (he just got castrated); they added naked ladies because they could. And while they usually cut away from most of the torture scenes after a bit of blood, the cameras lingered over the naked women (even after they had finished their job, they stayed in the background totally naked.

Violence is something that is present but seen as mostly wrong, while sex is front and centre whenever possible (see: Daenerys being gratuitiously naked when meeting the sellsword, rather than having any of the modesty present in the books).

Saturday Night Live answered how Game of Thrones is adapted from the original books: they have a 13-year old boy write the sex scenes.

 

[hermes]

I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it's madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure. Axes entering skulls, well, not so much.

The phrase is a variation of another one I can't remember the author of. Paraphrasing, it goes: "I can show a person cutting another person's head with an axe and people will cheer. Instead, if he cuts her breasts, everyone will complain."

 

[Kennetic]

Guns.

By far the biggest and most dangerous American obsession, You have a multi billion dollar industry who are selling guns to any and everyone all based on the biggest and obvious con ever.

It's written into the constitution so it's the be all and end all, I mean come on guys that's the bullshit religion pulls, disregard common sense and any inklings of humanity all because it's written down and your politicians say anyone attacking it is un-American. They aren't doing that for your sake they are doing it to protect the money which fills their pockets.

Ignoring the debate about American military action overseas, Look at Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. During that attack, 20 first-grade children aged six and seven were killed. Yet your politicians would rather that happen again than ban guns its sick and unbelievable to the rest of the world. People try to say it only happened because the kid was mentally disturbed and it's not gun ownership but the checks done for said ownership. Again utter bullshit fuelled by the Gun companies, Humans are not predictable, profiling doesn't work and people can snap at any point, it's access to guns that is the problem.

We have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Don't think that's a legit issue? Let's take a look at the NSA snooping on everyone's phone records, or how the Boston police raided several homes without warrants. Those things happened just this year.

It's the tyrannical government who's selling you those guns and defending your right to own them, but then what your talking about is the even bigger con "democracy", it doesn't exist.

I would like an an example of the US government selling me guns because that has never happened in my experience unless you're talking about the fast and furious scandal. And where does democracy not exist? Mind you, the US is a republic but I'd just like some clarification of the point you're trying to make.

 

[hermes]

If you want lots of views, you should pick an edgier title like "Tits and/or Guns in America". The current title made me think it was going to be Beatlemania vs. Twilight or some other pop culture phenomenon.

Edit: Game of Thrones is a really good example for how sex and violence are intertwined.

Spoiler: Spoilers for the last season of the show

Look at the torture of Theon Greyjoy. In the books, it doesn't take place in real time, and you never get a full description of what happens to him; you only see the aftereffects. In the show, they spend a lot of time breaking him, with lots of torture.

But what is the most memorable scene? It's the one with the prostitutes (or maybe just unethical women) where they strip Theon down, get him ready for sex, then stand aside to let Bolton cut off his genitals. As far as I remember, there was no such thing in the books (he just got castrated); they added naked ladies because they could. And while they usually cut away from most of the torture scenes after a bit of blood, the cameras lingered over the naked women (even after they had finished their job, they stayed in the background totally naked.

Violence is something that is present but seen as mostly wrong, while sex is front and centre whenever possible (see: Daenerys being gratuitiously naked when meeting the sellsword, rather than having any of the modesty present in the books).

Game of Thrones goes to great length to sell itself as an "adults only" TV show. That means including sex scenes in almost every chapter...

However, it is also a good example of the way each is perceived, since the reason it earned an R rating (and its proud of it) is because of its sexual content. The violent content alone, while explicit at times, could be subtlety altered if they aimed for a lower rating (LOTR had blood and decapitations, while still being PG13), but anything close to a naked back means its "only suitable for adults".

 

[Kennetic]

We have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Don't think that's a legit issue? Let's take a look at the NSA snooping on everyone's phone records, or how the Boston police raided several homes without warrants. Those things happened just this year.

Except such a tyrannical government does not exist anymore. Amendments 2 through 4 addressed wrongdoings because British soldiers were committing them. Not even those soldiers were working under tyranny, as Britain has had its Parliament for centuries up until and beyond that time period.

Now, that doesn't mean the "right to bear arms" and "protection against unreasonable searches and seizures" are pointless today. They just need to be given clarity and purpose in this modern world. Perhaps police brutality will near Syrian levels, and perhaps full-on searches of people's personal lives will be made just for stating the word "jihad." I doubt we're at those points.

The point of the 2nd Amendment is to prevent Syrian levels of brutality from happening in the first place. Sure, we're not facing British tyranny but what kind of voice to the people have if the government decides that freedom of speech doesn't apply anymore?

 

[Lightknight]

I didn't see a clear argument proving that viewing violence translates into a problem. Sexual issues resulting from porn and other such unrealistic sources has proven to have a myriad of significant negatives born out of a lack of education. The resolution to this kind of topic is to improve education about sex despite our cultural awkwardness towards it.

 

[Jacked Assassin]

I don't see much problem with Violence unless someone can't tell fiction from reality or by calling something Violence to a group of people who like Violence. As in saying Rape is Violence only enforces that people like Violence & you won't really get the reaction you want. If anything Rape is an act of Enslavement forcing someone to do something they don't want to do.

The problem with Sex on the other hand is we can't have a discussion about it without it either being barred or being treated like only the porn industry is allowed to talk about it. And leaving it to the porn industry is just as bad as leaving Evolution to Creationists. I feel like I should Face Palm every time someone thinks touching Breasts causes women to moan.

But I doubt America has a bigger problem with Sex when there are way more creepy fetishes that have come out of Japanese porn.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Both sex and violence are good for narratives but only if they are used for strong narrative reasons.

Sex is based on a primal part of Humanity to reproduce. This is the type of thing that having too much or too little causes problems. No Right Answer covered the issues of too much sex: societal pressures, rape culture, slight issue with women representation. If you want an example of too little sex, check Japan: They are starting to have a low birth rate and the rape culture and victim blaming is worse. I heard an interesting anecdote about Japan that may or may be wrong, please correct if so: It is believed that holding your urges could cause an imbalance of yin and yang and that having sex cures you so raping someone may be seen by some to be saving yourself from dying of a fundamental imbalance. Regardless of true or not, it's still a problem

In America, We have an odd relation, sexuality is fine but sex is not. We can have a hot women advertise a product but we can't see the consensual act of sex. It's an odd double standard that needs some investigation as to why.

Violence is also based on a primal part of Humanity, defense and survival. This one is much more one sided than Sex but still odd. Violence is kept both at arms length and right in front of us. We love the cinematic violence: blood fountains, limbs and head being tossed around, guns blazing and the like but we seem to want to be ignorant of the issues that violence causes to both perpetrator and victim: Crushing guilt, mental damage and that's not even getting into the effects of war that is conveniently avoided in a lot of games and movies. It could be possible that we subject ourselves to this selective bias for the sake of confort and that we want violence to exist because it acts as a diversion from the stress of normal life

 

[Jackel86]

I think the problem is that we are obsessed with these things in unhealthy ways. Violence is conflict, so somewhat necessary for compelling storytelling, but we have taken it to a repulsively fetishistic level. Every show or movie has to go further than the last. Remember what the old Law & Order show was like? Every episode wasn't a multiple rape/homicide case. And the torture-porn movies are out of control (Saw 2 and on, Hostel, the new Evil Dead). For all the fear mongering about children not knowing how to differentiate between video game violence and real violence, I think people have forgot that adults have a seriously unhealthy relationship with it as well.

As for sex, it's the fact that we obsessed with it somehow being wrong that makes it unhealthy. There is nothing wrong with the human body or sex. It's normal and natural. But we act like it's a big sin. And the unrealistic body image problem has little to do with sex. It's more of an amorphous "you are a worse human being if you can't be this" message, quite disconnected from sex most of the time, and photoshop/editing/makeup has a lot to do with it.

Just my opinions.

 

[Olas]

I can tell you what it looks like from outside:
That you're scared as hell of sex and idolize violence.

Yep, that's basically how it works here.

The media in the US seems to glorify it though. "Shoot up a school and get famous!"

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! No, we do not glorify violence against innocent people, especially not when it's domestic. Shootings and shit like that freaks us out as much as anyone. We like watching fictional violence in media, but it's rarely being glorified.

The point of the 2nd Amendment is to prevent Syrian levels of brutality from happening in the first place. Sure, we're not facing British tyranny but what kind of voice to the people have if the government decides that freedom of speech doesn't apply anymore?

Ya, because that's totally a realistic concern. We can't even keep weed illegal anymore, I think your first amendment is safe.
[/quote]

 

[Elijah Newton]

Big up to Chris and Kyle for the call to not rank this with winners and losers and instead to invite debate. Well done, gents.

I can tell you what it looks like from outside:
That you're scared as hell of sex and idolize violence.

Yeah. I'm on the inside and it looks that way from here, too. It's not the way things are, of course, nor can I say I know anyone who thinks that being scared of sex and idolizing violence is a state they want to attain, but it does seem to be the way our fictions work. Off the cuff I'd say it's because it's nice to simplify complex things. I don't know that this explains the sex-fear (beyond it being too deep to simplify, maybe, and therefore should just be ignored), but it does cover a lot of what happens with violence.

I'd argue there's some bleed over from this treatment in fiction to how things are handled IRL, too. I'm not really down with arguments that lean towards desensitization but do think there's something to be said for encountering situations that only have a personal precedent in fiction and then being completely unprepared for how to deal with reality.

The media in the US seems to glorify it though. "Shoot up a school and get famous!"

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! No, we do not glorify violence against innocent people, especially not when it's domestic. Shootings and shit like that freaks us out as much as anyone. We like watching fictional violence in media, but it's rarely being glorified.

I know what you're getting at : mass murderers who shoot up schools aren't held up as good people and glorified. What Olas said, though, was 'get famous,' and he's totally on the mark. Our media absolutely makes those murderers famous. Within hours we know the clothes they wore, the games they played, the music they listen to. Who else, outside of the entertainment industry (and arguably polititians), gets that kind of publicity in our country?

Captcha : Good for nothing. Hmmm.... War... unh... good god, y'all.

 

[Olas]

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! No, we do not glorify violence against innocent people, especially not when it's domestic. Shootings and shit like that freaks us out as much as anyone. We like watching fictional violence in media, but it's rarely being glorified.

There's covering a story, then there's every gruesome detail being explored and sent over and over again.
That's what I mean by glorifying it. These are the weapons he used, he shot this many times, there were this many victims, this many of them died, here's the killers past, here are his hobbies, here's what his mom, dad and neighbors think, this is where he was born and so on.

The biggest shock I got about Breivik is not the amount of people he killed or even that it could happen in Scandinavia, but the media coverage and the amount of detailed attention it got.
It's not that this information is uncovered, but it's the fact that we're exposed to it for weeks, every hour of the day.

If it's not perverse glorification, I don't know what it is :/

It's not glorification, people can be fascinated with something without glorifying it. People like James Holmes are among the most hated in our culture. You think historians who do research on the holocaust glorify it?

 

[KaZuYa]

Guns.

By far the biggest and most dangerous American obsession, You have a multi billion dollar industry who are selling guns to any and everyone all based on the biggest and obvious con ever.

It's written into the constitution so it's the be all and end all, I mean come on guys that's the bullshit religion pulls, disregard common sense and any inklings of humanity all because it's written down and your politicians say anyone attacking it is un-American. They aren't doing that for your sake they are doing it to protect the money which fills their pockets.

Ignoring the debate about American military action overseas, Look at Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. During that attack, 20 first-grade children aged six and seven were killed. Yet your politicians would rather that happen again than ban guns its sick and unbelievable to the rest of the world. People try to say it only happened because the kid was mentally disturbed and it's not gun ownership but the checks done for said ownership. Again utter bullshit fuelled by the Gun companies, Humans are not predictable, profiling doesn't work and people can snap at any point, it's access to guns that is the problem.

We have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Don't think that's a legit issue? Let's take a look at the NSA snooping on everyone's phone records, or how the Boston police raided several homes without warrants. Those things happened just this year.

It's the tyrannical government who's selling you those guns and defending your right to own them, but then what your talking about is the even bigger con "democracy", it doesn't exist.

I would like an an example of the US government selling me guns because that has never happened in my experience unless you're talking about the fast and furious scandal. And where does democracy not exist? Mind you, the US is a republic but I'd just like some clarification of the point you're trying to make.

The US government doesn't manufacture or sell guns per say but they create the infrastructure for those guns to be sold, they give power to organisations such as the NRA who are nothing but PR machines for gun companies.

There is no country in the world which has true democracy in the sense it was created by the ancient greeks. While you think you have a choice you really don't, You are told who you can vote for, people selected by committee under the control of the elite ruling class, and when it eventually comes down to polling day you only have two viable choices Democrat or Republican, deliberately polarised so it limits your choice further to no choice at all but in reality they both serve the same rich elite.

If you truly believe voting for someone you didn't chose, who is completely out of touch with the unwashed masses who doesn't represent what you stand for but is simply the lesser of two evils every five years is democracy then good for you.

 

[Lightknight]

I didn't see a clear argument proving that viewing violence translates into a problem. Sexual issues resulting from porn and other such unrealistic sources has proven to have a myriad of significant negatives born out of a lack of education. The resolution to this kind of topic is to improve education about sex despite our cultural awkwardness towards it.

I don't know how normal violence is in the US. I know that my country frowns upon it in all cases and the one who commits criminal violence is seen as immature or some sort of lowlife.
Basically idiots who can't resolve their issues in any other way than using their fists.

The media in the US seems to glorify it though. "Shoot up a school and get famous!"

You guys seem sort of desensitized. Not because of games, movies or books, but it's not as hated or shocking as a bit of public skin is, in the news.

There's a signifcant misconception in other countries regarding violence in America. We just have a much more reporters on the ground starving for a story while also putting out movies that are very violent. In reality we're generally within about 2 or 3 incidents per 100,000 with countries like the U.K. where countries are concerned. Homicide, for example, the U.K. is a respectable 1.2 (Europe is a 3.5) whereas the US is 4.8 per 100,000. Russia is 10.2 and Honduras is the king of murders at 91.6 per 100,000 (nearly .01 chance per year that you'll get murdered!). Like Europe, we have states that have a very different homicide rate than others as well. Generally our border states have the worst numbers and Louisiana is simply awful. But as a whole, the US isn't significantly different and violent crimes have gone down while violence in all forms of media has gotten more graphic. The slightly higher violent crimes may be more closely related to our war on drugs, immigration and other such nonsense moreso than just regularly more violent people. We also have some of the longest borders in the world. But when you're talking about differences of .001's, it's not a huge difference.

We do have a puritanical view on sex and that's certainly part of the problem. It's actually the reason why there's a significant lack of information on the subject of sex due to cultural stigma surrounding the topic. This can all be tracked back to the works of Augustine who had a particular problem with it. It's one of the reasons why there is so little information about sex. It is still largely taboo to talk about and that's something that needs to change for the health of our society.