No Right Answer: Best Star Trek Captain Ever

[DanHibiki]

Man... O'Brian keeps getting the shit kicked out of him by the writers. If he's not traumatized by war or incarceration his wife turns 12 and tries to force him in to pedophilia.

 

[InevitableFate]

Got to go with Captain "Black Coffee" Janeway for best in-universe captain. Actual character based on narrative merit... debatable. But from a lore stand point she wins every time.

Oh what was that? Picard got assimilated?

Janeway got assimilated twice. Both times INTENTIONALLY. Both times crippling the borg. And that was after saving the borg from an enemy they couldn't beat. Oh, and reverse assimilating one of them.

She spent 7 years in the Delta Quadrent and lost 17 crew members. Picard was there for one episode and lost 50.

Q tested Picard. Q wooed Janeway. She rejected him.

I have a list of these things. Don't test me.

 

[DrOswald]

I am always shocked to see how many people think Janeway was the best. She was a terrible captain from every point of view. Janeway was a Mary Sue that the writers could never allow to be wrong. 90% of her decisions as captain were idiotic. She is openly condescending to her crew and dismissive of their concerns. She is prejudice, refuses to follow Starfleet protocol when it is inconvenient and hides behind the prime directive whenever she doesn't want to do something. She promotes someone who is unable to identify shit with a tricorder to chief engineer (This is true. It happened in the episode titled "The 37's".) When Captain Picard defends the rights of a artificially created being, he argues that the superficial fact of Data's construction has no effect on his status as a sentient being. Janeway argues that we all know the doctor is no more valuable than a toaster, but lets throw him a bone to make him happy.

The only possible way Janeway is a good captain is, as inevitableFate pointed out, from a strictly in universe lore perspective. You see, The writers of Voyager had Janeway one up every captain in Starfleet history and made sure that their Mary Sue was always right, no matter the circumstance. The only possible way Janeway can be seen as a good captain is the direct result of very bad writing.

In any case, here is my list, best comes first:

1. Sisko
2. Picard
3. Classic Kirk
4. Kirk 2009 (An extremely shallow but still enjoyable character.)
------------------The line that separates good from bad----------------------
5. Archer (Enterprise should have been subtitled "rednecks in space")
6. Janeway

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Picard was the man that filled the role of captain the best. Commanding a Galaxy class star ship with 1000 crew members/scientist/researchers/families was something none of the other captains has done, on top of being captured and tortured by the cardassians during a secret covert mission, discovering and being assimilated by the borg, constant battles of intellect with Q and lets not forget the weekly new life and new civilizations bit. He kinda did it all.

Kirk was Chuck Norris with a hard-on and a ship.

Sisko and Janeway seemed like an attempt at a black Picard and a woman Picard that had large grandiose plot devices dropped in their lap, I blame the writers.

Archer was...(sigh)

I see Sisko as the anti Picard. He is not the best captain, but the most human. When contrasted against Picard, Sisko runs on his emotions, tempered by morals, while Picard remains professional and keeps his personal biases under control. That is why Picard is the captain of the Flagship, while Sisko was shuffled from one post to the next before he finally got his life back on track.

Still, nobody can quite threaten the way Sisko can.

And to the people accusing Avery Brooks of overacting.... look at his company.
And

I can't find videos for Janeway or Archer, because Janeway's ethics change every episode, and Archer is too incompetent to overact.

You cannot avoid all the glaring deficiencies and idiotic actions by Sisko. He played a major part of another culture's religion without any real argument (Said he was "uncomfortable" a few times, but pretty much accepted the role specifically for the power and influence it would grant him) which is very un-starfleet of him. Oh, and for those "He was still a God" people, he joined a group of aliens (abandoning his newborn child) whose only contributions to the galaxy are living in a hole in space. Yeah, they talked a lot about helping out Bajor, but when the Cardassians came about they really weren't into helping out that much, were they?

He also had one of his senior officers betray him, and then he couldn't catch him. Sisko was so incompetent he couldn't take that "great warship he built" (that was structurally flawed to the point it could destroy itself) and capture a single person who has nearly no resources. Your great captain, ladies and gentlemen! He finally did get him to surrender, but only by threatening to murder thousands of innocent people.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I object to some of his decisions. Most of the Sisko fans seem to be in that group because of the one time he tricked the Romulans into believing the Dominion was planning an attack. I should remind everyone, though, that he pretty much failed in every part of his plan in that episode and it was Garrack who actually saved the day.

Kirk had to deal with threats from both the Romulan and the Klingon Empires. For those who say he was a glory-hound or took too much risk in away parties, let me remind you that his crew included only 400 people. Most of these were specialists in fields as disparate as psychology, ship operations, biology, etc. He always took down the best group for the job and went himself so he could actively see and work with what was going on. Typically, the people remaining on ship flew around and did nothing, as they frequently lost contact with the away team. He always left the ship in the hands of one of his senior staff, usually Scotty. There was no diplomat on board, no councilor. His 1st in command was a science specialist, the only one with expertise in a field (Riker was a good pilot, Kira was a militia fighter, Chakotay was... well... indian?). Everybody else was needed somewhere and Kirk's job was to lead. Sue him.

Oh, and Sisko's girlfriend also betrayed him without him realizing it... but it's okay, because that's the type of person you want to marry and then immediately abandon. C'mon, this guy is a moron! What do you people see in him???

I see a normal person who is trying to do the best he can with what he's got. Not a paragon of humanity overflowing with arrogance like Season 1/2 Picard. Picard had to have everything stripped from him by the Borg before he learned a damn thing about humility.

Not everyone in Starfleet can live up to the Federation's lofty ideals. People like Sisko show that the Federation has flws, and that it should be working towards its idealized future, rather than declaring "we are perfect, because we have moved beyond what humanity was in teh 20th century that we are criticizing."

I really respect that Ira Steven Behr and Micheal Piller were able to go this route with Deep Space Nine. Lots of people say the show is a bastardization of Gene's vision, but really, you can only stay with the morally superior humans so long before you want to see them get their faces smashed in for being such pompous jackasses.

And they managed to tell stories that Gene simply wouldn't allow when he was alive. By the end of his run with Star Trek, Gene was quickly becoming another George Lucas, vetoing numerous story ideas because they didn't conform with his vision of the future.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Just wanted to verify, my love is for Prime Kirk, not stupid reboot Kirk. Sorry, I take that back too: It wasn't a reboot, because reboots are separated from the original story-line. This one over-rights the original, which is a blatant foul and disgusting mess.

Agree with your comments about Sisko... and Picard.

I never really got this complaint. Just how many times have parallel universes or alternate realities happened on Star Trek, and hwo many of them have been destroyed so that the Prime characters have been able to return to the way they were? And why should it matter?

The TNG episode Parallels showed that there were literally countless parallel universes that were springing up every second, and they were all put back to where they belonged once Worf figured out the solution. Those universes didn't cease to exist just because they didn't appear to the Prime characters anymore.

Or take another episode like The Visitor. Jake Sisko lived an entire lifetime without his father, wrote a couple of books, got married, lost his wife and obsessed over saving his dad from the temporal vortex. And when he committed suicide to save them both, things went back to the way they were.

But does that mean that future never happened? Or does it simply mena that by returning to the original Prime universe, that alternate reality continued on in one of the other countless parallel universes.

The way I see it, the only differences to the Prime Universe is that now Romulus is destroyed, and Ambassador Spock was presumed lost nullifying the Supernova. The rest of the universe goes on as usual, while the Narada and the Jellyfish create a parallel reality when they burst into existence near the Neutral Zone.

The black hole already threw them across time and space, from Romulus to the Neutral Zone Border a hundred and fifty years in the past. What's there to say that it didn't throw them into a new reality as well? After all, if changing the past was enough to casue Vulcan to suddenly have a moon, why is Prime Spock still alive?

I'm seeing a mirror universe setup.

In the end it doesn't matter, like Prime Spock says. Prime still happened and most likely will continue to happen, just in another reality than what the new films show us.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Fuck you Dan!
Sisko is the MAN!

But he's also not a captain, he's a commander. Janeway was a *****.
And that's it. There was nobody else.
At all
>_>
<_<

He was the best commander (suck it riker) and then when he got promoted at the end of season 3, he was the best captain.

I would have known that if I'd ever been able to watch the series all the way through (curse you Spike TV!)

Sisko owns the universe.
Also, he punched Q.

THAT I remember
But did Q ever come back?

No he did not!

Q didn't return to the station for the rest of the series, nor did he have fun with the Defiant.

Of course Sisko had to deal with the Founders, the Vorta (especially four of the clones of Weyoun), Dukat, being a Messiah figure to the Bajorans and the Ferengi.

Yes, he did come back. He came back with Vash. C'mon people

Err... The Episode with Vash returning was the one where Sisko punched Q. It was also the only appearence of Q in the DS9 series.

 

[The Random One]

I demand a recount! I agree with Dan, but even if I didn't, he was in top shape in this debate!

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING, CHRIS

 

[Monster_user]

Excuse me, but no Archer? No Sisko? No Pike? No Janeway? No Mackenzie Calhoun?

You need to see more Star Trek.

Calhoun is one badass ************. I don't think any other person completed the Kobayashi Maru quite the way he did.

Spoiler

Who else would consider FIRING on the transport and making a run for it? And it makes sense. Just what is a civilian transport doing in contested space like that in the first place? And with a half dozen Klingon warships conveniently nearby?

I really need to read the books about Calhoun. The Kobayashi Maru should probably be used to determine the character archetype these days, rather than provide an actual no win scenario. Didn't they discontinue it as a no-win scenario back in Star Trek II anyway?

Spoiler

I would say that most cadets take the Kobayashi Maru scenario at face value. You're told that this is an allied vessel that has sent out a distress signal. I could see a seasoned vet questioning that, but I doubt many rookies from a utopian society would. A cadet's first though would be, "poor KM, one mistake and they are going to pay severely if I do not help". The next thought, "****".

Most cadets would likely hesitate before firing on the Kobayashi Maru, even if they did suspect a trap. What if it wasn't a trap? Let the Kobayashi Maru handle its own, it isn't a threat to a starship anyway. First priority is to protect your ship, and your crew.

It is definitely an interesting solution to the scenario. Can't say I would have the balls to do that myself. Not sure what solution I would devise, it would depend entirely on my fear of getting caught in the Neutral Zone though. If I did loose my ship in the KM scenario, I would definitely not risk it a second time.

 

[Spearmaster]

You cannot avoid all the glaring deficiencies and idiotic actions by Sisko. He played a major part of another culture's religion without any real argument (Said he was "uncomfortable" a few times, but pretty much accepted the role specifically for the power and influence it would grant him) which is very un-starfleet of him. Oh, and for those "He was still a God" people, he joined a group of aliens (abandoning his newborn child) whose only contributions to the galaxy are living in a hole in space. Yeah, they talked a lot about helping out Bajor, but when the Cardassians came about they really weren't into helping out that much, were they?

He also had one of his senior officers betray him, and then he couldn't catch him. Sisko was so incompetent he couldn't take that "great warship he built" (that was structurally flawed to the point it could destroy itself) and capture a single person who has nearly no resources. Your great captain, ladies and gentlemen! He finally did get him to surrender, but only by threatening to murder thousands of innocent people.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I object to some of his decisions. Most of the Sisko fans seem to be in that group because of the one time he tricked the Romulans into believing the Dominion was planning an attack. I should remind everyone, though, that he pretty much failed in every part of his plan in that episode and it was Garrack who actually saved the day.

Kirk had to deal with threats from both the Romulan and the Klingon Empires. For those who say he was a glory-hound or took too much risk in away parties, let me remind you that his crew included only 400 people. Most of these were specialists in fields as disparate as psychology, ship operations, biology, etc. He always took down the best group for the job and went himself so he could actively see and work with what was going on. Typically, the people remaining on ship flew around and did nothing, as they frequently lost contact with the away team. He always left the ship in the hands of one of his senior staff, usually Scotty. There was no diplomat on board, no councilor. His 1st in command was a science specialist, the only one with expertise in a field (Riker was a good pilot, Kira was a militia fighter, Chakotay was... well... indian?). Everybody else was needed somewhere and Kirk's job was to lead. Sue him.

Oh, and Sisko's girlfriend also betrayed him without him realizing it... but it's okay, because that's the type of person you want to marry and then immediately abandon. C'mon, this guy is a moron! What do you people see in him???

I agree completely, and there was the fact that Sisko only had 2 emotions when dealing with a situation, annoyed and angry , getting up in peoples faces seemed like his only recourse when he was at a disadvantage and he was, a lot. Having him punch Q and suffer no reaction from Q was a poor writing choice that was a "see the new guy is tougher than Picard" which was a lowbrow move because it only proved Sisko was written in Picard's shadow. Same as his exchange with Picard at the beginning of the series. He barley qualifies as a captain to me because he barley ever commanded the defiant. He was busy playing Emissary, stomping all over the prime directive and being the last person to figure anything out.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Fuck you Dan!
Sisko is the MAN!

But he's also not a captain, he's a commander. Janeway was a *****.
And that's it. There was nobody else.
At all
>_>
<_<

He was the best commander (suck it riker) and then when he got promoted at the end of season 3, he was the best captain.

I would have known that if I'd ever been able to watch the series all the way through (curse you Spike TV!)

Sisko owns the universe.
Also, he punched Q.

THAT I remember
But did Q ever come back?

No he did not!

Q didn't return to the station for the rest of the series, nor did he have fun with the Defiant.

Of course Sisko had to deal with the Founders, the Vorta (especially four of the clones of Weyoun), Dukat, being a Messiah figure to the Bajorans and the Ferengi.

Yes, he did come back. He came back with Vash. C'mon people

Err... The Episode with Vash returning was the one where Sisko punched Q. It was also the only appearence of Q in the DS9 series.

I am ashamed. I have tried so hard to forget that entire series that I had split the two of them into two different episodes. I was mixing up Q's visit to the Enterprise when he was attacked by the Calamarain, the episode where Sisko is the game and the little girl is singing about the Calamarain, and the Vash episode. My explicit apologies good sir.

No worries, I completely forgot about Vash in that episode and had to to a quick wiki check.

Also for everyone's viewing pleasure

 

[likalaruku]

Sisko or Picard. Even Janeway was better than Kirk.

 

[nodlimax]

Based on the Star Trek TV shows I'd vote for Sisko. He was a great character and captain. In addition he actually punched Q (see video above)

 

[Dascylus]

I don't know who the best captain was but Kirk is at the bottom of my list.

Imagine taking each captain in their prime and putting them in a round table discussion on how to deal with the Borg or the Dominion.

Kirk is a relic, fine for his time but not after and certainly not as a command officer.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I don't know who the best captain was but Kirk is at the bottom of my list.

Imagine taking each captain in their prime and putting them in a round table discussion on how to deal with the Borg or the Dominion.

Kirk is a relic, fine for his time but not after and certainly not as a command officer.

Watch this video for that exact situation.
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d524.asp

In fact, everyone here should watch SF Debris Star Trek videos.