No Right Answer: Best Tim Burton Film Ever
- Thread starter Firefilm
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Nightmare before Christmas, Big Fish and Sleepy Hollow are my favourites, I like Ed wood and Edward Scissorhands as well
His absolute worst being Charlie and the Chocolate factory adaptation, Tim Burton's type of weirdness did not suit the subject matter. The Mel Stuart version is far far superior... Terry Gilliam would have a far better choice
His absolute worst being Charlie and the Chocolate factory adaptation, Tim Burton's type of weirdness did not suit the subject matter. The Mel Stuart version is far far superior... Terry Gilliam would have a far better choice
I don't mind Burton as long as there@s a point to where his movie's going. I agree that he DOES go down the "look how mental I am!" for entertainment road at times and often when idiosyncratic doesn't suit the story or helps the audience miss the point altogether.
I'd also agree that Ed wood and Big Fish are a couple of really decent films whether they're Tim's is irrelevant, though, as neither are THAT reflective of his work and as such,as a TIM BURTON film I'd go for Edward Scissorhands cos it's got a ton of Burtonisms going on but the central otherworldly Depp portrayal of Edward(great cameo by VP)actually forces the point of the film home and therefore gives the often gratuitous(in many of his other films) oddness a real reason to be going on. It gives the film momentum and direction some of his films lack and makes it rise above the sum of it's, apparently, every day Burton parts.
So, yeah, I think a "best Burton film" argument cannot be answered as they did by trying to find the two films LEAST like a typical TB film-that they're good films is a given here(I might not love them myself but they reach a level of quality)-and I think ES is a better answer because it takes a lot of the usual ingredients but uses them in a story and with a performance which actually make the most of them,need them and rewards both Burton and the audience with glimpses of how these attributes SHOULD have been used more often. His films sometimes feel like they're pastiches of Burton, films made to some audience expectation of what a TB film IS and as EW and BF are just, imho, partly a reaction to and against that from Burton the better films are those where he's the master of what he knows and is so without being self concious. Also, casting Winona as a blonde cheerleader is subversive genius-and I'm cheap like that.
Also, and I'm as bad as ANYONE for it, how come talking film makes us sound like we're all slaves to pretension?
I'd also agree that Ed wood and Big Fish are a couple of really decent films whether they're Tim's is irrelevant, though, as neither are THAT reflective of his work and as such,as a TIM BURTON film I'd go for Edward Scissorhands cos it's got a ton of Burtonisms going on but the central otherworldly Depp portrayal of Edward(great cameo by VP)actually forces the point of the film home and therefore gives the often gratuitous(in many of his other films) oddness a real reason to be going on. It gives the film momentum and direction some of his films lack and makes it rise above the sum of it's, apparently, every day Burton parts.
So, yeah, I think a "best Burton film" argument cannot be answered as they did by trying to find the two films LEAST like a typical TB film-that they're good films is a given here(I might not love them myself but they reach a level of quality)-and I think ES is a better answer because it takes a lot of the usual ingredients but uses them in a story and with a performance which actually make the most of them,need them and rewards both Burton and the audience with glimpses of how these attributes SHOULD have been used more often. His films sometimes feel like they're pastiches of Burton, films made to some audience expectation of what a TB film IS and as EW and BF are just, imho, partly a reaction to and against that from Burton the better films are those where he's the master of what he knows and is so without being self concious. Also, casting Winona as a blonde cheerleader is subversive genius-and I'm cheap like that.
Also, and I'm as bad as ANYONE for it, how come talking film makes us sound like we're all slaves to pretension?
Although I don't personally agree with your final choice as my own opinion, I must say that this is a very good point and an unexplored dimension to the conversation. I will not mention my own favourite in this regards, because I do not want this post to be about debate, but rather recognition of your viewpoint as refreshing.
mastiffchild said:
I find Tim Burton to way too hit or miss to really like most of his movies and even the ones i did like I feel no compulsion to ever watch again. Probably the only one I would watch again is Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, but that may be because that wasn't so much Burton's movie as Paul Reubens's. It didn't drag or get awkward the way his other movies tend to because pacing is a foreign concept to the man.
I should note that I hated Edward Scissorhands, Corpse Bride, Mars Attacks, Batman Returns, and Sweeney Todd. I'm only mentioning the movies that aren't widely disliked, hence I didn't mention Planet of the Apes, Alice in Wonderland and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Besides, I didn't even bother watching Alice. American McGee had already done that bullshit, anyway.
I should note that I hated Edward Scissorhands, Corpse Bride, Mars Attacks, Batman Returns, and Sweeney Todd. I'm only mentioning the movies that aren't widely disliked, hence I didn't mention Planet of the Apes, Alice in Wonderland and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Besides, I didn't even bother watching Alice. American McGee had already done that bullshit, anyway.
I'll take Ed Wood on this one. Doing it in the style of a cheesy B-movie thriller was a nice touch, and both of these movies were a nice departure from weird-for-weird's sake (never mind that Ed and his cohorts were a bunch of weirdos by default).
What I really liked about Ed Wood was the poignant relationship they set up between him and Bela Lugosi, the feeling that he took Lugosi under his wing, helped clean him up, and shot that last piece of footage to let him retain some of his old dignity. That scene and the scene where he recites his "hunted, despised" scene in the street and gets an ovation, it just really feels like a tribute to Lugosi's work, making him not the central point of the film but definitely its most endearing element. Not to mention Landau played it to Oscar perfection.
Best performance in a Tim Burton film, though, has to be Michael Keaton's Beetlejuice. Fantastic.
What I really liked about Ed Wood was the poignant relationship they set up between him and Bela Lugosi, the feeling that he took Lugosi under his wing, helped clean him up, and shot that last piece of footage to let him retain some of his old dignity. That scene and the scene where he recites his "hunted, despised" scene in the street and gets an ovation, it just really feels like a tribute to Lugosi's work, making him not the central point of the film but definitely its most endearing element. Not to mention Landau played it to Oscar perfection.
Best performance in a Tim Burton film, though, has to be Michael Keaton's Beetlejuice. Fantastic.
Big Fish. Hands down. I agree with the video, no grown man should be not crying at the end of that movie unless he has major issues. Big Fish was just a great journey from being annoyed at the main character's issues with his dad all the way to the end when he finally gets where his dad is coming from. Just... awesome.
Other picks of mine (in no real order) would be Sweeny Todd, Sleepy Hollow, and his two stop-motion entries, Nightmare Before Christmas and Corpse Bride. And it occurs to me that 3 of my 5 top Burton picks are basically musicals... what can I say, he has a talent for them.
I don't like all of Burton's works, but when they're good, they're fantastic.
Other picks of mine (in no real order) would be Sweeny Todd, Sleepy Hollow, and his two stop-motion entries, Nightmare Before Christmas and Corpse Bride. And it occurs to me that 3 of my 5 top Burton picks are basically musicals... what can I say, he has a talent for them.
I don't like all of Burton's works, but when they're good, they're fantastic.
I'm really starting to love you guys. I've seen neither movie, but I agree with a lot of the points made regarding Tim Burton himself.
But hey, can't forget about BeetleJuice!
But hey, can't forget about BeetleJuice!
