No Right Answer: Greatest Console Blunder Ever

SilverUchiha

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Vivi22 said:
SilverUchiha said:
I wouldn't call the WiiU a blunder or, to say the least, not the biggest blunder. It tripped out the door because it didn't have it's shoes tied and was trying to race out before the PS4 and Xbone had finished getting dressed. This left it with a few features not ready at launch (none of which, aside from Virtual Console, were really detrimental to enjoying the WiiU). And it's lack of games is soon to change with the second half of 2014 and a good chunk of 2015 being full of new unique titles that all look fun.
Thing is, the Wii U absolutely was a blunder, and the biggest reason why is because it was Nintendo's attempt to court the hardcore crowd again. Except that didn't work because most of those folks are either too intent on having the latest and greatest console tech, or they can recognize an under-powered console with a gimmicky tablet controller when they see it. So Nintendo has failed to recapture the hardcore fans, still hasn't managed to revive third party support because third parties have been burned enough and anything but last gen ports is either impossible (you'll never see a dedicated next-gen game ported to it), or doesn't make financial sense because it's sales have been in the toilet since launch. And on top of that they've lost the casual crowd that made the Wii a runaway success because smartphones and tablets are the in thing for those people now.
But according to multiple developers that have worked under Nintendo since the WiiU launched (from indies to guys like Platinum) working with Nintendo has actually been really good and in some cases, have helped improved their games. Most developers who aren't working with them and vocalizing that fact are EA (who was burned by Nintendo basically not being Origin exclusive) and Ubisoft (the less I say about them the better). I'm not saying their infallible, but to assume they aren't making a concerted effort to appeal to other developers to work with them (especially when they're typically paying the costs of these games to be made for the console unlike the Microsoft) accusing them of not trying to appeal to developers is inaccurate at best. As for the casual vs. hardcore groups they are or aren't marketing for, that doesn't matter. If the console has good appealing games, then people will buy the console (noted that sales boosted when Mario Kart 8 was released and will likely do so again when Bayonetta, Hyrule Warriors, and Smash Bros are released). Not to mention many reviews are saying that WiiU versions of games are, in a number of ways, better than on other versions for more functionality (from Shovel Knight to COD:BLOPS2).

So we're left with a console that went after two specific markets, failed to get either of them, and has a controller that's yet to justify it's own existence and is still sitting firmly in gimmick territory. So the only hope they're really left with is the die hard Nintendo crowd. And history tells us they only buy systems when a new Nintendo release hits, and we can expect the Wii U to sell probably 20 million units. 25-30 if it's really lucky. In between Nintendo releases, sales will flat line just like they have so far and always have for their previous machines.
I think the controller has found ways to justify its existence with a small handful of games that have managed to make use of it thus far. Granted, I would like to see more that take use of it, but it's not like it being used significantly is a deal breaker or not. I'm also fucking tired of developers making the excuse of "we'd develop for the WiiU, but we don't know how to incorporate the controller." I don't know what the normal contracts are to work with Nintendo, but I find it hard to believe that they would forcibly make developers use the controller if they didn't feel it would improve the experience of a game and they could just use the buttons on the pad or the pro controller if it really was that big a fucking deal to them. In fact, most games (the good ones) give options of using different controllers to fit your playstyle. That's awesome in comparison to other consoles where I'm shoehorned into one controller and that's it. Only thing the WiiU is missing is a mouse/keyboard option and I'd be perfectly content with it.

And as if being caught out in no man's land weren't bad enough, Nintendo broke their golden rule of not selling consoles for a loss this generation (technically they did it twice: once with the Wii U, and once when the 3DS had it's first price cut). I doubt any of this will be enough to kill Nintendo, but it will absolutely be enough to hurt them. So far the Wii U has been a sales failure, and a financial failure for them, and they aren't doing anything that I can see turning it around yet.
Well of course it won't kill it. Playstation survived despite the insane loses from the PS3's cost vs. the multiple price cuts it got before people were willing to touch the damn thing. And I really don't think this is that big a deal considering how much money they made selling the Wii (in the end, it'll likely balance out). Plus considering the fact that the game sales will mitigate the console losses, this isn't as bad a financial flop as many are making it out to be (and continue to do so without any substantial evidence at this point.

According to wikipedia (if someone has more reliable numbers to work with, please let me know, but these don't seem inaccurate from anything else I've found): Right now, the PS4 is sitting atop a console with 7 million units sold (numbers as of 4/6/14). At the same time (or close to it) the Xbone was sitting at 5 million units "SHIPPED TO RETAILERS" which doesn't translate directly into sales numbers, but that's the closest we've got as of (4/17). Meanwhile, the WiiU has sold 6.17 million units as of 3/31/14 (well before Mario Kart 8 launched). Yes, it had an extra year to make those numbers, but it is still comparable with the other two (better than one, possibly) where saying it's a huge failure doesn't really work at this point and will likely be less the case by the end of the year with the bigger titles finally coming out this year.
 

Keji Goto

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To say the Wii-U has been a blunder is just flat out wrong in my opinion. While it hasn't had a steady stream of worthwhile software to support it and support from third parties has been lackluster it still provides a great experience and is home to some really good games. The Wii-U's problem is that it just doesn't really have that big of a market and doesn't have any must have titles yet. Following the success of the Wii there was no way Nintendo was going to match that and they knew trying to go head to head with Microsoft and Sony would not work out for them so why not go after something else? Nintendo had an uphill battle from the start of this generation trying to get on the good side of third party developers and prove to audiences that they are more than a one trick pony, unfortunately that's not something that can be accomplished over night.

Nintendo has proven with the 3DS that they are dedicated to their platforms and know how to turn them around. It's taking longer with the Wii-U but based on what we saw at E3 Nintendo certainly knows what they are doing and there are great things on the horizon. The Wii-U isn't going to move a ton of units and it won't be in the running for best selling system this generation but that doesn't make it a blunder in my opinion, it just means it's a niche product.

When compared to the Xbox One which has screwed up multiple times thanks to Microsoft having no clue what their audience wants that they've had to go back and rework things, stress that they are focused on gaming, remove features they wasted time, money, and resources developing, and even back away from the Kinect after trying to shove it down our throats for half a decade. That's a blunder, something that needs to actively be corrected and changed. Just look at the announcement event for it to see how badly Microsoft screwed this thing up. They aren't going to catch up to Sony who they are directly competing with and if you look at their E3 showing it was the usual reliance on established franchises that no one was surprised to see.

No one wanted Kinect yet there it was from the start until Microsoft had to remove it. No one wanted always-on DRM for a console yet there it was until Microsoft removed it. No one wanted a $500 price tag yet there it was until Microsoft removed it. That's the key thing with Microsoft is that they've had to fix their mistakes because no one wanted it, Nintendo just has to show that there's enough good games to justify purchasing a Wii-U. Those who use the Gamepad enjoy it, those who play the games enjoy them, it's just right now there isn't enough software. Microsoft not only had to overcome the stuff I listed above but now has a negative impression in the gaming community it will always have to work to get past. Here we are two E3's after the Xbox One was revealed and Microsoft is still having to stress their focus on gaming above all else. That's a pretty big deal.
 

orangeapples

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SilverUchiha said:
According to wikipedia (if someone has more reliable numbers to work with, please let me know, but these don't seem inaccurate from anything else I've found): Right now, the PS4 is sitting atop a console with 7 million units sold (numbers as of 4/6/14). At the same time (or close to it) the Xbone was sitting at 5 million units "SHIPPED TO RETAILERS" which doesn't translate directly into sales numbers, but that's the closest we've got as of (4/17). Meanwhile, the WiiU has sold 6.17 million units as of 3/31/14 (well before Mario Kart 8 launched). Yes, it had an extra year to make those numbers, but it is still comparable with the other two (better than one, possibly) where saying it's a huge failure doesn't really work at this point and will likely be less the case by the end of the year with the bigger titles finally coming out this year.
As far as sales numbers go, PS4 is sitting on like 8.25M, WiiU has about 6.4 and XB1 has got around 4.5. While those numbes seem to be overwhelmingly in Sony's favor, in the USA (North America) Sony has 3.75M, WiiU has 2.75M and XB1 has like 3.25M. Everyone already knew the XB1 was going to lose everywere else. Everywhere else PS4 has more than doubled XB1 sales and WIiU is slightly ahead of XB1, but in the region that actually matters to Microsoft (the only region they won last gen), XB1 is only half a million sales behind PS4 and about .5M ahead of WiiU. So as far as Microsoft is concerned they are in a comfortable second place. Nintendo is in a global second place, probably not going to stay there, and Sony is winning on all fronts except America where they are only kinda ahead but things are kinda even.
 

gamegod25

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Probably not the biggest blunder ever in gaming consoles, but certainly deserves a top spot. Talk about a complete reversal of the previous generation and a colossal fail on MS part. Their attitude as a whole was what really nailed the coffin on the Xbone, that conceited air brought about by either wild overconfidence or just being that far out of touch with their consumers. The Xbone was a massive septic tank bomb that blew up in their shit eating grinning faces, and rightfully so. They drove away at least one customer this gen utterly, they could give it away for free and I still wouldn't touch that shit brick. Maybe next cycle MS...maybe next time you can redeem yourself.
 

CrazyCapnMorgan

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And finally, and quite possibly one of the best, reasons the consumer believes the XBone is the worst console blunder:

"XBox One Eighty" memes everywhere. Have yet to see "Wii U-turn" memes.
 

masticina

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So can Nintendo safe the WiiU and get it up to be a good second console to own? Yes! Enough good games, games that are Nintendo Specific and of course Multi Platform Games that have added functionality that you can't find on the PS4/Xbox One and it should be fine.

Now.. the Xbox One, even with its rather pathetic start and issues around the Kinect/No Kinect..as long as they attract the deals. As long as they get the right software it will be doing pretty well. Look in europe people LOVE the PS4. Europeans are more Playstation Centric. In the USA well .. the Xbox kinda has a stronger stronghold. In Asia Xbox has little to seek.

So yeah. In the end at least on the WiiU I can play those wacky Nintendo Games. Games you won't find on a PS4 or Xbox One. So you know that gives it a good reason to exist. Even with its flaws.

The Xbox One. well in Europe it really isn't that important.
 

TheSchizoid

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Despite the lackluster draw of their peripherals, I'd still buy the XBone with a Kinect just...because I guess. At this moment I'd still buy a WiiU over the other two. My interest in the XBox One is minimal and heavily leans towards the Playstation 4 at this point. I don't plan on buying a PS4 due to the lack of games to grab my interest (only Infamous: Second Son is doing that right now). However, I know exactly when I'm buying a PS4: when Arkham Knight comes out. Other than that, Nintendo looks to be the only company I'm ready to spend my next-gen money on.
 

Razorback0z

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For a long time now the games industry has been suffering from an oversupply of geniuses. It obvious to anyone who has been gaming more than a few years. You can see it in every aspect of the industry now from the combat systems in Matrix Online and Secret World to the obsession with motion controllers that don't work.

Every hardware and every software producer has a few geniuses that have these "great ideas". They don't listen to their colleagues, their fans, their focus groups or even the little voices in their heads saying "dude this sucks", they just plough on with their "great ideas" and never really realise, even when their game or their system tanks that it was actually a terrible idea. That's how we ended up with ESO and not Skyrim 2, because a genius got involved. But its always someone else's fault and for MS, its usually their dumbass fans who don't know what's good for them.

Well gaming might be a relatively new industry, but the rules of sales still apply. The customer is in fact ALWAYS right, even when we are wrong.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
Both consoles have more than there fair share of troubles, but surely if we're talking about the biggest blunder ever, then the Virtual Boy wins by a mile.
No, there has been worse.

A lot, lot worse.


The R-zone was Tiger's electronics attempt to copy the Virtual Boy. Let that sink in for a moment.

You could put one of Tiger's crappy, ultra cheap "Game and Watch" style games into a slot above the eye piece, which is projected onto that piece of plastic. Yeah, imagine playing a game that is literally printed onto a screen, above ONE eye, in eye bleeding red and black.

So, an even more eye straining version of the Virtual Boy that couldn't even play any halfway decent games.

In terms of functioning consoles that were marketed badly, the Sega Saturn. Sega decided to surprise consumers by releasing the console early. This also surprised developers, who weren't told about this and thus almost no games were ready at the system's launch, so no one bought it. This boneheaded choice is what really tanked the console, and led to SEGA being forced out of the console market.
 

EdHaag

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karloss01 said:
also worst Console blunder is easily the Dreamcast, less then a three year life span that had Sega pull out of the hardware market and just produce software.
The Dreamcast was an awesome system that was years ahead of its time. It wasn't the blunder. The blunder was the Saturn that came before it. (And the Sega 32X before that, and the Sega CD before that....) After burning everyone with the previous 3 consoles, nobody trusted Sega hardware anymore, and when they finally got it right, it was too late.
 

Vykrel

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C.S.Strowbridge said:
The Wii U is a blunder? Really?
calling it the "Wii U" and focusing on the controller more than the actual console was the blunder. they made everyone think it was just another peripheral for the Wii.

Nintendo overestimated their main consumer base for the Wii, which consists of people who dont actually follow gaming. if they had called it something else entirely, or at least called it the "Wii 2", the console would have sold a lot better.

i hope they learned their lesson.
 

Isalan

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No Neo-Geo?
No Atari Jaguar?
No Dreamcast? (Arguable)
No Sega CD?

I mean, by all means, go for the modern options, but some of the above were literally the death knell for the companies that made them and thats got to count for something. Any would have made a better choice than the Wii-U, which while a pile of ass hasn't exactly caused irreparable damage to the industry.

Still, as is the case every week, enjoyed you guys arguments immensely. Keep on keeping on.
 

Evil Smurf

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I might buy a WiiU, because you can use the tablet exclusively. Just like my 3dsXL I guess.
 

KisaiTenshi

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Firefilm said:
Greatest Console Blunder Ever

NO, the Virtual boy doesn't count, because it was a conspiracy to give people eye-cancer. That being said, which gaming console tripped over it's own two feet the hardest?

Watch Video
Microsoft's backtracking on the Xbox One is a lot like the backtracking on the Sony PS3
The original models were super expensive and had features that were ultimately axed.
Then you lost backwards compatibility (Original models of the PS3 could, all non-lauch models can not play PS2 games), The current XBone and PS4 can't play any previous games because they changed the CPU's again. Remember that backwards compatibility was a touted feature of the PS2 and early PS3. The final nail was removing the "other OS" support, thereby rendering the PS3 about as neutered as the Xbone is now.

Nintendo's Wii/Wii U Marketing I think should have picked something else as the name. They could have called it the Gamecube 2, and Gamecube 3, and that would emphasize the fact it can play the previous titles. Ultimately Nintendo wins because of the backwards compatibility, however it's not very clear how to play old games. You can't play gamecube discs in the Wii U, but they absolutely could have released an accessory to add the gamecube ports and memory card slots to the Wii U. Hell I completely forgot the Wii had those and kept plugging the Gamecube back in instead of playing it on the Wii.

But I'll clarify one point brought up in the video, and I think it's overthinking. Nintendo should have made it so the tablet and Wii U controllers could be taken to other Wii U's. This doesn't happen because the pairing a controller from working with two devices at the same time is a pain in the butt. The Wii U's controller is really the "player 1" controller, and the bluetooth attached controllers are for the 4 other people you play with in the same room. So you read that right, that allows 5 people to play, with the person who uses the tablet having their own screen. That's a perfect opportunity to create a "dealer" in a card game or a "GM" in a user-generated RPG. They can't have 4 tablets because there is only one separate WiFi radio/encoder card in the Wii U. When you use two gamepads, it splits the processing power (so you go from having 60fps to 30fps.)

The worst console to trip over itself would have to be everything Sega has ever made between the 16bit console and the Dreamcast. SegaCD/32X/Saturn = Fail. This was Sega making accessories that had maybe 10 games for them. Much like Microsoft's issue with mandating Kinect use, no developer wants to develop for an accessory not shipped with the unit. If you no longer ship a marketed feature for the console, that puts the developers in a bind to axe that feature.

Kinect and Playstation Move were both attempts to rip off the motion controls the Wii came out with. Playstation Move is quite blatant about it, while the Kinect has some practical applications, of which the Xbox platform is a poor platform for. The Kinect basically replaces the need for other optional accessories, but the only practical applications for it are to recognize players facial movements for voice chat to synchronize the animation in multiplayer. The Kinect has more potential on the desktop computer to create mo-cap for user-generated content, rather than on a console.
 

Firefilm

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karloss01 said:
about the cross-console controller comparability the Wii and Wii U have; Just like to point out that the Duelshock 1 controllers from PS1 worked on PS2 so the Wii U isn't the first console to do that.

also worst Console blunder is easily the Dreamcast, less then a three year life span that had Sega pull out of the hardware market and just produce software.
Except the Dreamcast is pretty much the only system ever made to release with great games. It failed because no one cared about SEGA by that point and waited for the PS2, which went on to be the greatest console ever made.
 

Firefilm

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Evil Smurf said:
I might buy a WiiU, because you can use the tablet exclusively. Just like my 3dsXL I guess.
I don't get it? Using 3DS as an example as to why touch screens with the controls improve the game is madness. There has never been a game on the 3DS that didn't have crippling bad controls, except for ones that ignored the touch screen or used the attachment second stick that really should come with the 3DS.
 

rayen020

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Are we just gonna forget the dreamcast, arguably the best console ever that tripped over it's own two feet and let Nintendo take the stage?
 

Redd the Sock

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So, what, was the Vita discounted by being a handheld, because that one's really been a letdown.

I mean, to be fair, what new system doesn't star with a few bumps? But the vita seemed to go out of it's way to have not thought about the obvious: app limit, mandatory apps you never use (welcome park), apps rearrange when you switch memory cards, must be online to even connect to a PS3, save data tied to the app bubble unless you buy PS+, and a library only fans of JRPGs could love (not that I'm not one of those) which might have been staved off if not for the backward compatibility thing that said "digital games only, and then only certain games."

Still, all that might have been ridden out if not for the memory cards. The small, tedious to switch, fucking overpriced memory cards. They're trying to combat piracy, but all they did was hamstring us into that tight corner 60 gig hard drives int he PS3 did. "We want to sell digital software, so let's make it so that memory is expensive and more cumbersome than necessary while we try and sell them games that are 3 gigs each." It hurt the system, and it hurts developers as those of us with a vita have to think long and hard about if we want something bad enough to take up so much expensive digital real estate.

I mean, at least the Xbone is trying to fix its mistakes, and the Wii U is working past it's bad marketing in something a bit out there, but this was fucking basic and Sony still doesn't seem to think they're doing anything wrong here.