No Right Answer: Is Gaming A Sport?

[madwarper]

Semantical arguments aside, if the mainline point of a sport is to demonstrate and compete via one's physical mastery, wouldn't stuff like fighting games still fall under that? It requires very precise(oftentimes single-frame executions, so 1/60th of a second) executions of command for prolonged periods.

No. Simply requiring precise timing is not unique to being a sport. Cooking requires precise time. Surgery require precise timing. Are you going to start calling them sport too?

Even if people at professional fighting game tournaments don't work up a sweat, you cannot claim there is not physical work or mastery being displayed.

And, no one isn't claiming they the professionals at fighting games don't have a mastery of their craft, else they wouldn't have qualified for the tournaments. What is in dispute is whether that is a sport.

 

[Lightknight]

Semantical arguments aside, if the mainline point of a sport is to demonstrate and compete via one's physical mastery, wouldn't stuff like fighting games still fall under that? It requires very precise(oftentimes single-frame executions, so 1/60th of a second) executions of command for prolonged periods.

No. Simply requiring precise timing is not unique to being a sport. Cooking requires precise time. Surgery require precise timing. Are you going to start calling them sport too?

Even if people at professional fighting game tournaments don't work up a sweat, you cannot claim there is not physical work or mastery being displayed.

And, no one isn't claiming they the professionals at fighting games don't have a mastery of their craft, else they wouldn't have qualified for the tournaments. What is in dispute is whether that is a sport.

I'd kinda like to see your response to Arelock's point that you cut out:

"Well if you want to get into a semantical argument, one could argue that your brain is issuing controls to your body towards an intended outcome - coaching. Therefore all physical sports are invalid now because it's just your brain coaching your body."

Aren't we technically just brains sitting in a vessel we control?

 

[madwarper]

Aren't we technically just brains sitting in a vessel we control?

Yes. Your point? The body is athletic, not the brain.

 

[Lightknight]

Aren't we technically just brains sitting in a vessel we control?

Yes. Your point? The body is athletic, not the brain.

Yet you defined anything where we're merely controlling the object performing the athleticism as "coaching". The only implication to be reached here is either that we are incapable of athletics and are only able to coach or that coaching is not mutually exclusive from athletics.

An avatar can rightly be deemed an extension of yourself.

I do not think gaming is a sport as far as athletics are concerned. However, I'd say a game that is physically being played out like football would still be a sport to watch even if you don't consider the controlling person to be an athlete.

 

[Maxtro]

Semantical arguments aside, if the mainline point of a sport is to demonstrate and compete via one's physical mastery, wouldn't stuff like fighting games still fall under that? It requires very precise(oftentimes single-frame executions, so 1/60th of a second) executions of command for prolonged periods.

No. Simply requiring precise timing is not unique to being a sport. Cooking requires precise time. Surgery require precise timing. Are you going to start calling them sport too?

Even if people at professional fighting game tournaments don't work up a sweat, you cannot claim there is not physical work or mastery being displayed.

And, no one isn't claiming they the professionals at fighting games don't have a mastery of their craft, else they wouldn't have qualified for the tournaments. What is in dispute is whether that is a sport.

Ha! Surgery competition at the Olympics.

I'd pay to see that.... if I wasn't completely freaked out by blood.

 

[madwarper]

Yet you defined anything where we're merely controlling the object performing the athleticism as "coaching". This implication to be reached here is either that we are incapable of athletics and are only able to coach or that coaching is not mutually exclusive from athletics.

Ummm... No. That's not what I inferred at all.

To go back to your example; Who is performing the act of football (the physical activity)? The giant-mechs.
Are the human controllers actually performing any sport? No, they're just sending input to the giant-mechs.

 

[Lightknight]

Yet you defined anything where we're merely controlling the object performing the athleticism as "coaching". This implication to be reached here is either that we are incapable of athletics and are only able to coach or that coaching is not mutually exclusive from athletics.

Ummm... No. That's not what I inferred at all.

To go back to your example; Who is performing the act of football (the physical activity)? The giant-mechs.
Are the human controllers actually performing any sport? No, they're just sending input to the giant-mechs.

Ok, so you'd still consider it to be a sport even though the physical work is being done by non-organic beings?

Ok. So a sport is being accomplished but the people controlling the 'athletes' aren't themselves athletes. Sure.

So with that in mind, would you consider a highly competitive gaming environment a sport in the same way? In which non-organic beings are duking it out while being controlled by non-athletes or not-necessarily athletes?

I'm just trying to get down to the bottom of the issue. While I have a problem calling any of these people athletes perse (though for all I know they could also be soccer players and whatnot), I have less of a problem considering what is happening as a sport albeit digital.

 

[madwarper]

Ok, so you'd still consider it to be a sport even though the physical work is being done by non-organic beings?

Yes, the mechs PLAYERS are performing the Sport. The human CONTROLLERS are not performing the Sport.

Ok. So a sport is being accomplished but the people controlling the 'athletes' aren't themselves athletes. Sure.

If you extending this to humans playing Football, then it's the athletes that are on the field performing the physical activity that are playing the Sport. The coach, on the sidelines calling out the plays, is not performing a sport.

So with that in mind, would you consider a highly competitive gaming environment a sport in the same way? In which non-organic beings are duking it out while being controlled by non-athletes or not-necessarily athletes?

No. They may be playing sports games, as in the pixels on the screen may be playing football, but the humans holding onto the controllers are not playing any sport. They're playing a video fame.

The fact that this is "highly competitive environment" is irrelevant. SEVERAL things can be "highly competitive" without being a sport.

I'm just trying to get down to the bottom of the issue. While I have a problem calling any of these people athletes perse (though for all I know they could also be soccer players and whatnot), I have less of a problem considering what is happening as a sport albeit digital.

Playing Football is a Sport. Playing Madden is not.

There are sports. There are sports video games. And, never the twain shall meet.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Gaming is a sport, and I hate it for what it did to League of Legends. Part of the lore retcon was because esports money became too appealing for Riot Games and they decided to abandon the lore tot promote their esports league.

 

[Lightknight]

Ok, so you'd still consider it to be a sport even though the physical work is being done by non-organic beings?

Yes, the mechs PLAYERS are performing the Sport. The human CONTROLLERS are not performing the Sport.

Ok. So a sport is being accomplished but the people controlling the 'athletes' aren't themselves athletes. Sure.

If you extending this to humans playing Football, then it's the athletes that are on the field performing the physical activity that are playing the Sport. The coach, on the sidelines calling out the plays, is not performing a sport.

So with that in mind, would you consider a highly competitive gaming environment a sport in the same way? In which non-organic beings are duking it out while being controlled by non-athletes or not-necessarily athletes?

No. They may be playing sports games, as in the pixels on the screen may be playing football, but the humans holding onto the controllers are not playing any sport. They're playing a video fame.

The fact that this is "highly competitive environment" is irrelevant. SEVERAL things can be "highly competitive" without being a sport.

I'm just trying to get down to the bottom of the issue. While I have a problem calling any of these people athletes perse (though for all I know they could also be soccer players and whatnot), I have less of a problem considering what is happening as a sport albeit digital.

Playing Football is a Sport. Playing Madden is not.

There are sports. There are sports video games. And, never the twain shall meet.

Ok, great, and as long as you agree that games like Chess are not sports either then this confirms my hypothesis.

Most of the people debating this define the term sport as demanding physical exertion.

See, many of us (myself included if I'm being honest) believe that physical exertion has to be part of sports. I think the Olympics are full of shit for defining Chess as a sport when it's just a game.

But I also understand that I don't own terms. The common vernacular changes by region and some of us have the physical exertion as a requirement while others don't necessarily require it. So we view a sport as something accomplished by physical athletes while others just see the sport of competition as the only requirement.

 

[madwarper]

Ok, great, and as long as you agree that games like Chess are not sports either then this confirms my hypothesis.

Correct. Vanilla Chess isn't a sport. Chess Boxing, on the other hand...

Most of the people debating this define the term sport as demanding physical exertion.

I wouldn't call it "physical exertion"... Because, some people are in such a shape that they find merely walking down a hallway to be "physically exerting". Rather, I'd prefer that sports demand some "athletic prowess".

See, many of us (myself included if I'm being honest) believe that physical exertion has to be part of sports. I think the Olympics are full of shit for defining Chess as a sport when it's just a game.

Completely agree.

I see calling video games a sport is just like calling pizza a vegetable.

 

[G00N3R7883]

Its probably been mentioned already but ... why should video games care about being called a sport? I don't think we need to validate how good our hobby is to other people.

"Sport" does not automatically equal "entertaining". I like football and NFL but there are lots of other "sports" where I'd prefer to watch paint dry.

 

[spartan231490]

I think it can be, it really depends on what sport means to you. It's never been nailed down culturally, so it's a really individual thing. Some people call golf or chess sports. Some people will call things like swimming or gymnastics not sports, even though they're olympic sports and very physical. I have decided that to me, sport means a competition between teams. Maybe to you it means physically demanding, but then how do you determine physically demanding. Look at professional golf, a pro tends to get better if they're in better shape, and fatigue and all that can play a role, but it's not soccer.

Anyway, using that definition, at high levels of competition(like the LCS) they have consistent teams and huge demands of teamwork, so that meets my requirements for a sport.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

If you take hand-eye coordination as physical, which it is, then Starcraft is sport but PvP Civilization isn't. That's pretty silly.

 

[Gospelnut]

Video games are as much a sport as NASCAR

 

[Olas]

Competitive gaming is what it is. Whether it falls into a particular category, or whether a particular categorical term can be said to encompass it, does not change the nature of what competitive gaming is. So it's not really worth getting worked up over.

That said, I think it says something about videogames that we can debate whether they're an artform and whether they're a sport. What else could be argued to fall under both of these categories?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Video games are a sport in my mind for the definition of sport that people keep posting.

As a personal trainer, I'm thinking about the one thing that people keep forgetting:

Reflexes.

There is a large part of all sports that sits on reflexes in obtaining and/or maintaining points or a score. Training your mind to receive the information and then your body to carry out whatever desired response in a short amount of time to achieve a desired effect. That's why poker and chess isn't a sport. Because you have all at least minutes to take in the information given to you and then plan and plot your next move.

However, in my mind, that does make Speed Chess a sport because that is about reaction and speed.

Physical Activity does not mean total body movement. It means anything related to you physically moving your body. And yes, moving a mouse counts. Is your body moving the mouse? Are you willing it to move in the manner that you want? Congratulations, your body is physically active with that mouse.

And with all physical activities, your abilities wane if you don't practice. UMvC3 legend Marlin Pie hasn't been in tourneys for a while, and his latest showings... he got bodied.

Just because it doesn't fit in with people's shared opinion does not mean it doesn't meet the criteria.

Physical Exertion? Precision movement + Reflexes to react to a given stimulus = check.
Points and Score related to said Physical Exertion? Check.
Training to Maintain Skills? If you played a shooter or a fighting game, I don't even have to mention this. But look at Starcraft. A lot of those professional South Koreans are doing insane things.


How much physical and mental training would it take all of us to reach Losira's level? Could we even do it if we tried?

 

[Varis]

Precision shooting is a sport, people watch when people just pull the trigger and hit flying objects. As mentioned in the video, hand-eye coordination is required for games, how is that so different from shooting? You don't have to move your morbidly obese body either way. Just pull the trigger. Click on a keyboard. It can be a sport. Sports for me are things that require you to have skills in, and if you do have those skills in a level that is competitive and possible to be pitted against others, it's a sport.

Basically all that sports are, is just things where people can compete. I just think that athletic sports and less so sports should be divided into different categories, not that they should demean each other in any way. You still have to have skills to be successful.

Off-topic sidenote: Games are a form of art as well. But that does not make gamers the artists. Developers are the artists. Game in itself can be a creation of art, but the way you use it depends on the mechanics. I doubt the people who invented the spear thought of throwing it at long distances was eventually going to be an Olympic sport.

 

[McElroy]

League of Legends isn't a sport because Rito owns the game and everything in it. StepMania is a sport, on the other hand, because machine dance is truly free. All games and sports need rules and someone to write them, sure, but Riot has complete control over the game's environment - everything happening on their servers and so on. I can't say too much about other esports favourites. Just wanted to bring this specific thing up - I don't care about the argument on the word itself.

 

[RaikuFA]

Nope. Dosen't require any actual talent outside of clicking a mouse or pressing buttons quickly. Same can apply to Nascar as well.