No Right Answer: Is Sexy Bad?

[Johnny Impact]

Neither shirt offends me.

I personally wouldn't wear the one with women. I do wear nerd T-shirts but nothing in any way sexual. That's just my taste. I think the shirt looks tacky but I'm not ready to demonize the wearer any more than I would demonize a woman who wore the other shirt. The cowboy shirt (which I also wouldn't wear, just to be clear) simply made me chuckle. My first thought was, "Shirtless in the desert? Those guys are gonna get really sunburned." I recognize that pictures of pretty people do not actually indicate that people are objects.

I must admit I did have a brief pang of embarrassment that I do not and never will look anything like the idealized man. I could diet down until my abs were visible, then bulk up to the limits of genetics and nutrition, even get myself a nice tan, and I still wouldn't be attractive. My voice is high and nasal, my ears stick out, my hair is useless, I'm graceless, conversationally retarded, my teeth are crooked, and I can't live without my glasses. Some of that is partially correctable but I could never reach the mark no matter how hard I tried.

Here's the point though: That alone is not cause for offense. It's nothing more than I feel pretty much every moment of every day. I wish aggressive feminists (or, for that matter, all people everywhere) understood that it's normal, and arguably perfectly okay, to feel like you don't look good enough. Guys with muscles have them because they didn't look or feel how they wanted to. They felt inadequate and did something about it. They didn't whine about how society expected them to look, they simply built themselves up. Maybe they didn't hit the mark either but they came closer and are stronger and healthier for it. Self-image is a big motivator and I refuse to see that as a bad thing. People do make bad or unrealistic decisions about what path to follow, which leads to anorexia and all sorts of other complications. The fact remains the idea of achieving better self-image is not wrong. Women are NOT alone in feeling embarrassed or inadequate, it happens to millions of men all the time. But it's easier to whine about unattainable standards than it is to take positive steps.

 

[gridsleep]

How is this even a thing? What nincompoops worry about this? And what nincompoops consider those nincompoops to be an addressable issue? There are children dying of starvation. There is poison flowing into rivers and into the air. War is everywhere. People live in fear. Half of America goes to bed hungry, if indeed they even have a bed. How is this even a thing?

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

I would just like to put this out there

What if the scientist was female, and dressed like the women on the shirt? what would the reaction be then?

yeah...... i went there

Also, this is a man who is pelvic thrusting humanity into the future, if he wants an slave, i am available to serve his needs so that he may continue to be the best ever.

 

[endtherapture]

Does it bother you that this scientist didn't dress the same as all the other kids? Maybe you and people like you should respond by bullying him to tears because he didn't dress in a way you approve of. In fact, let's do this to everyone who behaves differently than what we expect. Let's just go ahead and plunge the world into a pseudo-high school environment where the superficial cheerleaders are the ones that win every time.

Basic standards of workplace attire giving you flashbacks to high school drama is your own issue; I'd advise some counseling if you've been out of high school for more than a summer and still obsessing over the time a cheerleader called you a weirdo. In the real world, professions have standards of what employees wear to work. This guy clearly violated those standards or A) it wouldn't have been an issue and B) he wouldn't have apologized. Appropriate workplace attire is not a vast conspiracy to create an Orwellian nightmare, it's a basic fact of working for a company pretty much since the creation of companies. Again, I'd invite you to list professions wherein this would be appropriate work clothing.

You don't get it. What does a man wearing a shirt have to do with feminism? He wasn't oppressing women with his shirt.

How do you know? Several people found it problematic. Your inability to see that problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

How does does people getting offended at people insulting a man who just played a major role in human history ...Look, this was a bunch of people just bullying a nerd. F-em.

Can we lay of the hyperbole? He was one of many research scientists and was brought on nine years into the project. Due to problems with the landing (not something he was responsible for- not blaming him), there won't really be any data collected to use in research. I'm not questioning that he is a good scientist, but these rebuttals about his "major role in human history" make him sound like he was Bruce Willis in Armageddon. And the idea that this was some sort of "nerd harassment" is absurd; I'd argue that everyone involved and almost everyone watching was a nerd.

It's frankly starting to sound more like you are personalizing this from being harassed as a nerd in high school by cheerleaders. That may just be the vibe coming off your responses, but it might be wise to take a deep breath and try to not link this to whatever memories this seems to be dredging up.

Just because some people who get offended too easily find it "problematic" does not mean that it is a problem.

I'm assuming you don't work in STEM since you find this a huge issue - but in STEM fields a lot of the time there isn't a corporate environment, people are allowed to wear what they want an express themselves - nerdy and zany t shirts etc. Just because suits and ties are workplace attire in some sectors of society does not mean they are in all sectors of work.

 

[Belaam]

I'm assuming you don't work in STEM since you find this a huge issue - but in STEM fields a lot of the time there isn't a corporate environment, people are allowed to wear what they want an express themselves - nerdy and zany t shirts etc. Just because suits and ties are workplace attire in some sectors of society does not mean they are in all sectors of work.

I spent many years working for CH2M HILL, an international engineering and construction firm. We built the 2012 Olympic site in England, de-salination plants in Dubai, and literally thousands of other engineering and construction jobs. I regularly worked on multi-million dollar projects (I generally worked on water treatment, transport, and geohydrology contracts) with huge numbers of scientists and engineers. And that shirt wouldn't have flown at any of our job sites.

I am now essentially retired from there and decided to get into education. I teach at a STEM high school that works primarily with Aerospace companies. Over the summer we visited Scaled Composites and toured one of the WhiteKnight and SpaceShipTwo build hangers. The staff were all in either Scaled Composites or Virgin Galactic polos and I assume that the pin-up shirt would have not been okay there either.

Enough resume?

Perhaps in smaller, less visible STEM jobs, it would pass by, but no place I have ever worked would let someone in that shirt anywhere near an international news interview where they would be representing the company.

Besides which, ignoring all of my personal experience actually strengthens the argument against the shirt. Though it doesn't agree with my experience, you seem to be saying, "In STEM fields, it is common for scantily dressed women to be used a decoration/fashion on clothing in the workplace." Which actually supports the idea that STEM fields are less welcoming towards women. But again, I have never seen anyone at any of the STEM workplaces I have worked at wear anything like that at work.

 

[endtherapture]

I'm assuming you don't work in STEM since you find this a huge issue - but in STEM fields a lot of the time there isn't a corporate environment, people are allowed to wear what they want an express themselves - nerdy and zany t shirts etc. Just because suits and ties are workplace attire in some sectors of society does not mean they are in all sectors of work.

I spent many years working for CH2M HILL, an international engineering and construction firm. We built the 2012 Olympic site in England, de-salination plants in Dubai, and literally thousands of other engineering and construction jobs. I regularly worked on multi-million dollar projects (I generally worked on water treatment, transport, and geohydrology contracts) with huge numbers of scientists and engineers. And that shirt wouldn't have flown at any of our job sites.

I am now essentially retired from there and decided to get into education. I teach at a STEM high school that works primarily with Aerospace companies. Over the summer we visited Scaled Composites and toured one of the WhiteKnight and SpaceShipTwo build hangers. The staff were all in either Scaled Composites or Virgin Galactic polos and I assume that the pin-up shirt would have not been okay there either.

Enough resume?

Perhaps in smaller, less visible STEM jobs, it would pass by, but no place I have ever worked would let someone in that shirt anywhere near an international news interview where they would be representing the company.

Besides which, ignoring all of my personal experience actually strengthens the argument against the shirt. Though it doesn't agree with my experience, you seem to be saying, "In STEM fields, it is common for scantily dressed women to be used a decoration/fashion on clothing in the workplace." Which actually supports the idea that STEM fields are less welcoming towards women. But again, I have never seen anyone at any of the STEM workplaces I have worked at wear anything like that at work.

You're representing a huge multi-billion pound company that's got to be professional and present its work as a huge business venture.

When you work in academia, such as research in a university, the attitudes are usually far different.

I'm not saying that, you're twisting my words. I'm saying that in a more research and less profit focused sector (education and the space industry, evidently) it's okay to go into work with a zany t-shirt with Boba Fett on, because the atmosphere is far more laid back, friendly and less corporate.