No Right Answer: Living with Depression

actar411

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Thanks for talking about this guys! It really does need to be talked about more. Anyway, I'm off to my therapy session!
 

tzimize

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Thank you for this. Its strange how important an internet show episode from two complete strangers can feel like.

Personally...I wish you luck with the medicine, but be careful. Be very careful.

I was put on antidepressants by my doctor and the results were one of the most horrifying experiences of my life. I encourage everyone to let medication be your last resort. Try therapy, try exercise, try just talking about it a lot with a trusted friend. If you just cant shake it...the medication will always be there, but be careful about it.

The brain is a tender instrument. Messing with chemical mood modification is a slippery slope.
 

Foolery

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Jun 5, 2013
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Sadly, North America has an incredibly simplistic and apathetic view towards depression. A large majority of people would rather pretend it doesn't exist or that it's simply a case of the blues, including medical professionals. I had depression for almost 2 years, and I stopped seeking professional help because all they did was brush me off and trivialize the issue. I never wanted drugs, I just wanted someone to talk to me about it. Anyway, I leave you with this comic, which I think describes the feeling of depression pretty well, at least for me.

http://imgur.com/gallery/0VnF3
 

Imp_Emissary

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This was a grand episode. :) Thank you.

I've been depressed a few times in the past, and I can tell you this. You hit the nail right on the head when it comes to being alone with depression. Not just not being around people all the time. Sometimes that's what ya need for a little while. Rather, not letting people know, and keeping yourself isolated in your own head.

Being alone like that, your thoughts really get to you, and there's noting really to stop them sometimes. You feel like you're getting wrapped up and dragged down by it all.

I know it's hard, but you have to tell people about it. That's the only way you can really get help.
Not just meds, not just counseling, but people who will listen to you because they care.

It's very unfortunate that even in this day and age that people still look down on mental issues as something that either doesn't really matter, or needs to be ALWAYS dealt with by separating the people with the issues from "the rest"[sub](Because who never had any mental troubles?)[/sub], or worse yet, ignoring the problems completely.

That NEEDS to change if things are ever going to get better.

Again, thank you for doing this. :)
 

jtiberiusk

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Thanks NoRiAns. I've made a lot of misteps in being a supportive partner to someone who is depressed and your perspective helped a lot.
 

Eamar

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tzimize said:
Personally...I wish you luck with the medicine, but be careful. Be very careful.

I was put on antidepressants by my doctor and the results were one of the most horrifying experiences of my life. I encourage everyone to let medication be your last resort. Try therapy, try exercise, try just talking about it a lot with a trusted friend. If you just cant shake it...the medication will always be there, but be careful about it.

The brain is a tender instrument. Messing with chemical mood modification is a slippery slope.
I totally agree that you should be careful with meds and that messing with your brain is a big deal, but I'm not sure I agree with the slippery slope bit and just wanted to extend this a bit from personal experience in case anyone's reading this who might find it helpful.

Not all psych meds work the same on everyone, and you shouldn't really write off all antidepressants because one type didn't work for you. Now believe me, I've been on all sorts of antidepressants, antipsychotics and mood stabilisers over the last few years and have had some truly horrendous side effects, but I'd say all that was worth it to eventually find the meds that work for me.

We just don't know enough about the brain to know how individuals will react to any given drug. That's why I'm reluctant to name the drugs I've had my worst experiences with, because that was just my experience and I was unlucky, and those same drugs will work amazingly for other people and I don't want to put them off with internet horror stories.

So yeah, I'd say good luck with the meds, but be aware that it's likely to be a long period of trial and error before you find the right ones (or not, you might get lucky after all). Also try and get a prescription from a specialist (ie a psychiatrist) if at all possible. They just have way more knowledge of these things than a general doctor.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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tzimize said:
Thank you for this. Its strange how important an internet show episode from two complete strangers can feel like.

Personally...I wish you luck with the medicine, but be careful. Be very careful.

I was put on antidepressants by my doctor and the results were one of the most horrifying experiences of my life. I encourage everyone to let medication be your last resort. Try therapy, try exercise, try just talking about it a lot with a trusted friend. If you just cant shake it...the medication will always be there, but be careful about it.

The brain is a tender instrument. Messing with chemical mood modification is a slippery slope.
This is very, very true.
I used to work at [company withheld] which is one of the largest health science companies in the world. We had strong ties to both hospitals and pharmaceutical companies and we were privy to a lot of medical studies and hospital statistics.

The problem is there is no one chemical imbalance which causes depression; it can be a multitude of things and factors. Doctor's either can't find out (due to sheer medical impracticability) or don't care enough to find out what your particular imbalance is (Trust me, a lot of doctors really don't about you). Instead, they are perfectly willing to just throw medication down your throat to see what works. The issue is things like SSRI's can have incredibly horrible effects if misprescribed. They can also cause very long term damage if taken frequently for too long.

I no longer work at that company, but the amount of shit I learned about the medical industry was horrifying (for example, about half of cancer patients are on treatment that is wrong for them).
 

Aardvaarkman

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Jul 14, 2011
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One of the problems with communicating depression is that it's not always the right time to talk about depression. Talk isn't always the answer, and when you're depressed it might be a much better idea to have some fun rather than discuss these issues, especially when the other person in the conversation might not be equipped to deal with it.

So, I think that's a third side to the "cheer up" and "oh my god, no" dichotomy. Even an earnest and caring response is not always ideal.

It's a very tricky balance, because when you meet people, you both want them to know about your situation, but you also don't want it to become the one defining thing about you, and have it ruin other chances for social interaction.

The thing about suicide and depression is also thorny, but I think that this comes down to the different kinds of depression, or at least how people relate to it, particularly on the chronic/manic divide. I think people with chronic depression or bipolar issues are much more likely to suicide than those with chronic conditions. In many ways, the different types of depression are completely different problems, yet we lump them all under the one label of "depression" or "mental illnesses" because we don't have a good vocabulary to discuss them. This, I think, can be another flaw in talking about it, because even if someone else has also suffered depression, they might have a vastly different conception of it and ways of dealing with it.
 

tzimize

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Eamar said:
tzimize said:
Personally...I wish you luck with the medicine, but be careful. Be very careful.

I was put on antidepressants by my doctor and the results were one of the most horrifying experiences of my life. I encourage everyone to let medication be your last resort. Try therapy, try exercise, try just talking about it a lot with a trusted friend. If you just cant shake it...the medication will always be there, but be careful about it.

The brain is a tender instrument. Messing with chemical mood modification is a slippery slope.
I totally agree that you should be careful with meds and that messing with your brain is a big deal, but I'm not sure I agree with the slippery slope bit and just wanted to extend this a bit from personal experience in case anyone's reading this who might find it helpful.

Not all psych meds work the same on everyone, and you shouldn't really write off all antidepressants because one type didn't work for you. Now believe me, I've been on all sorts of antidepressants, antipsychotics and mood stabilisers over the last few years and have had some truly horrendous side effects, but I'd say all that was worth it to eventually find the meds that work for me.

We just don't know enough about the brain to know how individuals will react to any given drug. That's why I'm reluctant to name the drugs I've had my worst experiences with, because that was just my experience and I was unlucky, and those same drugs will work amazingly for other people and I don't want to put them off with internet horror stories.

So yeah, I'd say good luck with the meds, but be aware that it's likely to be a long period of trial and error before you find the right ones (or not, you might get lucky after all). Also try and get a prescription from a specialist (ie a psychiatrist) if at all possible. They just have way more knowledge of these things than a general doctor.
True enough. However, I'd like to explain a bit of my own experience.

I had a pretty long, horrendous bout of depression last year. Over time my doctor wanted to get me on antidepressants, I did not want to, but at some point I realized that this probably wouldnt get better (at least it felt that way) and that either I tried everything, or I would lose everything.

The first medication I took made me filled with energy. I could not stop tapping my foot, and I didnt sleep very well. My mood was just a low hum in the back of my brain, but I felt a bit more angsty and panicky than before. My doctor added another medication to balance it out, and it made me drowsy. I slept like a dead person, but it didnt feel like I ever really woke up.

What I had left of my sex drive vanished, and I actually lost control of my Johnson. I remember at some point my girlfriend (bless her heart) was so devastated since she couldnt help me (or even give me sexual release) that she started crying.

My junk was literally junk and SHE was crying. I didnt really care. I realized I didnt care about that, and I didnt manage to care about her reaction or how she felt. It was partly wonderful, not having to feel anything, and it was partly...strangely horrifying. I didnt really feel horrified, but I KNEW in my head that I SHOULD be, and that I should feel empathy and sympathy towards the single most important person in my life. But I felt nothing.

It is absolutely impossible to describe accurately how that was. KNOWING I should be horrified at my situation and KNOWING I should feel awful (and I would be RIGHT to, for once) but feel nothing. And I was suddenly terrified I might kill myself since I might not even feel anything about that.

So, I stopped taking medication. It has been a long and fucking hard road back. Fortunately I've had a workplace interested in keeping me around and fitting work to me, so I can come back slowly, and I've had a girlfriend with some kind of superpower to keep on her feet. I'm not well. I still feel awful from time to time, and I'm very scared it will never go away. But I'd rather feel miserable, than be emotionally dead.

Its quite possible I might have found better meds, but its also possible I'd have found worse ones. And I honestly dont know if I'd still be around if I did. So be careful. Having a PHD or whatever its called is usually not enough to know someones mind.
 
Oct 20, 2010
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Great show guys, thanks.

I have been having a lot of trouble over the last 3 months and this was a fantastic help. My situation is great in life, but I am of course, very unhappy with it. I do have one person who is very supportive and some great friends I have made since I moved here. (( I am quite far north in an oilfield town, FSJ british Columbia)) I have been loathe to tell my friends for teh exact reasons you mentioned of extreems. I will discuss it more, with some of these friends and see if I can get back to my usually more content state of being.

I do see now though that this has beena long term part of who I am, and as Chris said, have become so used to identifying as "Depressive, occassionally rather moody," that I wasn't considering teh possibility that I was simply depressed. At least untill this December when I finally said to my Mother, "I think I am depressed."

Super helpful, and I am sorry about Jew Wario's unfortunate tragedy. Feel good about yourselves because I think this has helped many many people more tha will comment here.

-Shamus Moloney { aka SilverSidedSquirrel )

PS Depression CAN eat a bag of dicks!
 

Sany Farajalla

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I registered an account just to comment on here. I can't thank you enough for talking about this. As cliché as it sounds it's great to know that I'm not alone in this. I live in a place where the cultural psyche is that depression is held in near-physical contempt, and although I know that the view is warped it's hard to manage it sometimes. I identify a lot with the fact that depression becomes an almost integral part of you, which isn't something I've ever read about, thank you for putting this into words.
 

Eamar

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tzimize said:
True enough. However, I'd like to explain a bit of my own experience.

I had a pretty long, horrendous bout of depression last year. Over time my doctor wanted to get me on antidepressants, I did not want to, but at some point I realized that this probably wouldnt get better (at least it felt that way) and that either I tried everything, or I would lose everything.

The first medication I took made me filled with energy. I could not stop tapping my foot, and I didnt sleep very well. My mood was just a low hum in the back of my brain, but I felt a bit more angsty and panicky than before. My doctor added another medication to balance it out, and it made me drowsy. I slept like a dead person, but it didnt feel like I ever really woke up.

What I had left of my sex drive vanished, and I actually lost control of my Johnson. I remember at some point my girlfriend (bless her heart) was so devastated since she couldnt help me (or even give me sexual release) that she started crying.

My junk was literally junk and SHE was crying. I didnt really care. I realized I didnt care about that, and I didnt manage to care about her reaction or how she felt. It was partly wonderful, not having to feel anything, and it was partly...strangely horrifying. I didnt really feel horrified, but I KNEW in my head that I SHOULD be, and that I should feel empathy and sympathy towards the single most important person in my life. But I felt nothing.

It is absolutely impossible to describe accurately how that was. KNOWING I should be horrified at my situation and KNOWING I should feel awful (and I would be RIGHT to, for once) but feel nothing. And I was suddenly terrified I might kill myself since I might not even feel anything about that.

So, I stopped taking medication. It has been a long and fucking hard road back. Fortunately I've had a workplace interested in keeping me around and fitting work to me, so I can come back slowly, and I've had a girlfriend with some kind of superpower to keep on her feet. I'm not well. I still feel awful from time to time, and I'm very scared it will never go away. But I'd rather feel miserable, than be emotionally dead.

Its quite possible I might have found better meds, but its also possible I'd have found worse ones. And I honestly dont know if I'd still be around if I did. So be careful. Having a PHD or whatever its called is usually not enough to know someones mind.
I have massive sympathy for you and your experience, and I'm glad things are looking better now. I too have had to come off meds abruptly because of unbearable side effects, so I really do sympathise. I guess the difference between us is that you decided to try other methods while I carried on trying different drugs. The reason I did that was because I knew that unmedicated bipolar disorder would be just as bad as any side effects, and eventually kill me, no question. That said, bipolar is a very different beast from depression (I was initially treated for depression before the bipolar diagnosis) and absolutely does require medication in an overwhelming majority of cases.

I'm in no way trying to prove you wrong, I just always like to offer an alternative viewpoint to positions like yours because I remember using the internet a hell of a lot when I was figuring all this stuff out, and I want anyone in the same position who happens to stumble across this to see both sides.

It seems the best advice for anyone reading this is to be aware of yourself, your condition and your situation as much as possible. Ultimately you have to figure out what's best for you.
 

Parasondox

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This has been a great video and thank you so much for this. I have been suffering with depression and anxiety since I was in my late preteens and it's a subject that often isn't spoken about much within my family and certain people who just think it's a "phase". Just like one of the guys said, sorry I don't remember the name I apologise, I told a youth leader at my church that I was suffering with depressing his answer was, are you praying or are you praying enough? I can tell he didn't know how to respond to me saying I had depression because he was a close friend and I honestly had to answer back saying no matter how hard I try, it doesn't fully help.

Even when I do something that is fun, there are moments where I still feel down and that I have to put on a fake smile even though deep down, I can't. Personally I am still scared to tell many people I know because I don't want to burden anyone or have them overreact and treat me differently as if I will snap or something if they say anything. It took me a while to speak to my doctor and a therapist about everything.

A relative even openly said, and at this point they don't know I suffer with depression, "well a person who is Christian shouldn't be depressed, they aren't being a good Christian". He made that comment after a report on the news about those who are discriminated against at the work place for having a mental health issue. I weren't just shocked at what was said and didn't say anything in response. My family can be very religious and later found out some thought the same thing to what my cousin said.

The subject of depression and other forms of mental health should be spoken about more to give everyone an understand into what it's really about because it often feels intimidating for someone with that mental health to talk about their situation, without a few in society thinking you are either overreacting or you should "get over it". Or worse think you are a bad person or coward... I hate when people say that so much.
 
Oct 20, 2010
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SirBryghtside said:
Thanks for making this - a lot of it resonated with me personally :) I've started coming to terms with the idea that I might be depressed thanks to people like you, and I'm starting to work out how to deal with it - a little less crippling social anxiety would help on the whole 'talking to people about it' front, but I'll get there :p




^5 Bryghtside. You managed to say it much more consiseley than I. I am in the same position, and I too am encouraged to talk to more people now.
 

tzimize

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Eamar said:
-snip-

I have massive sympathy for you and your experience, and I'm glad things are looking better now. I too have had to come off meds abruptly because of unbearable side effects, so I really do sympathise. I guess the difference between us is that you decided to try other methods while I carried on trying different drugs. The reason I did that was because I knew that unmedicated bipolar disorder would be just as bad as any side effects, and eventually kill me, no question. That said, bipolar is a very different beast from depression (I was initially treated for depression before the bipolar diagnosis) and absolutely does require medication in an overwhelming majority of cases.

I'm in no way trying to prove you wrong, I just always like to offer an alternative viewpoint to positions like yours because I remember using the internet a hell of a lot when I was figuring all this stuff out, and I want anyone in the same position who happens to stumble across this to see both sides.

It seems the best advice for anyone reading this is to be aware of yourself, your condition and your situation as much as possible. Ultimately you have to figure out what's best for you.
I'll return the sympathies and add some well-wishing :)

One of my best friends is bi-polar so I have some off-hand experience with that beast as well, and you're correct, especially severe bi-polarity is very dangerous stuff.

In any case, a video like this brings up many interesting experiences, and if someone can learn something none of it is wasted. Thanks for sharing. And a thanks again to No Right answer for a great episode.
 

Jacked Assassin

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I agree we have to find our own identities in order to deal with our own depressions. So mine might be very different from what may or may not be the norm. And its not "intended as debate" & shouldn't be.

I had first acknowledged I was depressed back when my mom decided to move from Sidney to another town. I eventually ended up in BOCES. My mom eventually decided to move from that town to basically the middle of nowhere.

During my early teen years there was no Good Crowd to be a part of. Around Home it was just hang out with 2 other guys my age who want to backyard wrestle or play video games. I eventually stopped hanging with those 2 & became anti-social at home. Where I would still have to deal with the yelling between my mom & half sister.

I eventually got out of BOCES & another school before I could finally go to local schools. My improvement there basically stops. Part of that was still because I was a nervous wreck.

To a point where I would unintentionally destroy pencil lead when in art class. And since the other art students would be angry at me for doing this I eventually lose interest in me doing art. (Half my life later despite having drawing supplies I still fear destroying pencil lead.)

Not really out of depression but for my own sense of belonging I made my own little bully group named after The nWo WolfPac. It ultimately fell apart due to clashing views as well as everyone having the hots for this girl who was dating one of the other members of the group.

During my late teens I was told I was going to graduate with an IEP & if I wanted a chance at going to college I would need to get a GED. So I eventually ended up going back to BOCES for my GED. I didn't get get my GED until 21 because most of the class was held back a year because of an absent student.

If it weren't for that I could've avoided my awkward crush feeling I had for this girl. So when that eventually unraveled everything I thought was between us was just coincidental. It got so bad that she ended up spreading a rumor that I was a rapist. And I didn't try to stop talking to her until I had a school counselor tell me if I continued I'd get arrested for Harassment.

So finally the GED years are over! And I can move on with my ability to now get into a college that will teach me how to make Video Games! No. At this same time my mom decided to move back to Sidney to a 2 bedroom apartment instead of the 3 bedroom trailer we lived in.

And once that was over my mom started to really limit my future for the sake of having me live nearby. She wanted to throw out my stuff & make me homeless. She belittled me when compared to my cousins who got to grow up in Sidney. She acted like she knew what I was going through during my last GED year when she didn't. And finally she bribed me.

In my mind I had to choose between going for a future I wanted but could also leave me homeless or doing as she wanted & hoping that she would reveal more to me about my last GED year where I had a crush on a girl that I was hoping I could still be her boyfriend eventually. I went with the latter for fear of being Homeless & wanting to be with that girl.

I ended up moving to Oneonta where my goals shifted from wanting to make Video Games to finding a way to at least become a "professional wrestler" indie wrestler. I never got anywhere near to touching this goal. I ended up quitting because my manager at my "learning job" wouldn't stop harassing me about my hair & pants. When I'd tell him why not to he'd just belittle me & say that was just High School.

I eventually quit when I had to start taking my SSI checks directly. I did go back but it didn't last long because my learning job that I thought would help me get a real job didn't. They stated if they wouldn't help me get a job a 2nd time then there was no reason for them to help me get a job the 1st time. So I was never going to be able to get anywhere near a "professional wrestling school" without making th risk of becoming homeless.

During my time living in Oneonta I became Atheist. My becoming Atheist was in part of avoiding my stronger suicidal urges. God wasn't revealing himself to me & telling me & whoever else that we are Soul Mates. Or why putting me through all this stress wouldn't make me want to go to hell & get this life over with it. I only have this life to live & I'm not going to get another one in a heaven, hell, or where ever.

After I became 27 I found out that girl I had a crush on months ago was arrested for Harassment. Finally accepting the fact my mom didn't know what I was going through I decided 2011 would be the year to finally get a real job, a real girlfriend, & finally live "the normal life". My 2011 was my year of insanity. Every time I was finally ready to move on with my life another issue with my finances or apartment came up. Fear of becoming Homeless ended up being most of the year. I gained 20 pounds.

In 2012 my mom decided without my want to do so to celebrate my belated 28th birthday. Where in part I ended up screaming & cursing because I wasn't happy with the previous year. I cut my mom out of my life after that though she still tries to force her way in. The rest of 2012 was stressful due to it being an election year & the plausibility of Mitt Romney canceling SSI. I gained another 20 pounds.

I also tried to start my own Non Religious in Oneonta Meet Up on 12/22/2012, but couldn't find anyone that actually lived in Oneonta. That meet up group expired 01/22/2014. 2012 was also the year I helped fund Ouya hoping I could finally learn how to make video games. But the kind of video games I would want to make I wouldn't be able to once Ouya decided to sell at retail. So my Ouya is nothing more than a brown paperweight.

In 2013 my half sister came back into my life. But all she did was try to ham fist our mom back into my life. I stopped talking to her because she refused not to do that. I gained 40 pounds.

So its now 2014. As of last year I'm now a 30 year old virgin. I made a bigger deal out of being a 20 year old virgin so meh. Even if I had the chance to have sex I wouldn't want it because I don't trust anyone in that way. My mind is now somewhat focused on Steam Machine or a HP PC that runs Windows 7. I'll probably take one last crack at trying to learn how to make video games. And when that fails I suppose I'll just settle for what little I already have.
 

Rattja

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I think I need to show this one to people around me...
You are so right about the fear of the two extremes, and it has made me hide it as much as possible.
Also that it's a part of ones identity.

The way I see it, there is two types of depression. One you fall into if/when something happens, and one you have been in as long as you can remember. Don't think either is better/worse than the other, but they work differently.
If you have been depressed for all, or the majority of your life, that's the life you know. It's hard to imagine anything else, and the thought that there may not be anything else is sort of crushing.
However if you have been "normal"/"happy" (you know what I mean), and then fall into a depressed state, you will have something to compare to, which can make things worse.


In my case, It's not that everything is so terrible, or anything bad happened in the past. I just don't see the point in anything, never have. The more I learn the less I care, as it all seems more and more insignificant. We are just a speck of dust, flying through vacum on this tiny rock, and we can't even figure out if it's real.
Even killing myself is utterly pointless, so why do it? I'll die eventually anyways, and then we'll see what happens.

I've been trying to find the best way to describe it, and I have been working on this metaphor I kinda like.

It's like being trapped in a room, and in this room there is all the food you could ever think of. Everyone are stuffing their face and eating, having a good time. While I walk around, too sick to even wanna smell food. But people don't care, they force me to at least try this and try that. So I do, smile and keep walking.
I could leave this room, but would never be able to return. So if I one day would be hungry I'd be screwd.
Then there is the thought that, maybe, somewhere, there is a dish that does not make me wanna throw up.

At least I seem to make people around me happy, so I must be doing something right.
 

fepayton

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Aug 8, 2008
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So many thanks to you both.

You have managed to articulate so clearly, the confusion of misery of, all too familiar, cycels.

Amazing work.

All the best!
 

vxicepickxv

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Sep 28, 2008
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I am glad you made this video, it's much more eloquent than how I could have phrased my identical problem. Just make sure you get help when it creeps back in your life.