No Right Answer: Who Should Be Spider-Man?

[tzimize]

Miles morales..? MEH. If you're gonna do spider-man, do spider-man. If you want a black guy in the avengers, use a black super-hero. There are plenty of them. My 2?.

To the 'plenty of them' idea, you'd be surprised [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes#Marvel_Comics]. In that list, a lot of those people are dead, marking the few times that a comic book death sticks. From the few still alive, they either have no powers or they are just copies of other heroes. Blue Marvel and Power Man are some of the few that stick out.

Due to that, Miles Morales is Spider-Man. Whatever Biases or 'hate of PC' people love to quote, he is Spider-man. Just as Black Nick Fury is Nick Fury, Crazy Cannibal Hulk is Hulk, And New Ultron is Tony Stark's Baby instead of Hank Pym. They are the versions that Marvel signed off on.

I hope you realize the irony of your own post.

"From the few still alive, they either have no powers or they are just copies of other heroes. So. What is Miles Morales then?

That said, I hope people refrain from drawing the racist card. The reason I dont want MM has nothing to do with his skin color/ethnicity and everything to do with that its not Spider man. Its the same reason I hated the Garfield cool-kid version of spider-man. That and the fact that Garfield was a fucking atrocity on the screen.

Miles Morales is not spider man to ME. I've grown up reading about Peter Parker. I wouldnt like it if Superman suddenly wasnt called Kal El anymore either, of if Bruce Wayne turned into Drusilla Wayne, or if Black Widow turned into some guy. That would be other characters. If you want other characters, make new ones. Or maybe better yet, have some character development...

 

[Brockyman]

Miles morales..? MEH. If you're gonna do spider-man, do spider-man. If you want a black guy in the avengers, use a black super-hero. There are plenty of them. My 2?.

Why do you people, and by you people I mean literally everyone who says "just use a black super hero", not seem to understand that Miles Motherfuckin Morales IS a black super hero. Don't tell me he's off in the ultimate timeline. Black Nick Goddamned Fury was too and nobody pitches a fit when Sammy laces up his boots.

Maybe we've seen Peter Sonofabitchin Parker enough. Maybe we want to see Miles. Maybe we know that we won't get a stand alone Miles movie because who the balls is that? Maybe we know damn well that plopping him into the MCU means instant recognition and adoration for a character nobody has even heard of. Maybe that!

I think that they used that Nick Fury was because they wanted Sam Jackson (as he was designed off him) as a solid action start.

Spider-man is Peter Parker, at least to 90% of the "I don't know much about comics" movie going audience and 75% of actual comic fans, and they need that recognition.

Also, I think the well has been poisoned on Miles by the SJW crowd "demanding" that Miles be used for "equality" purposes, more than more logical argument. Black Panther is a strong character with a lot of buzz and they can build him from the ground up more than an audience going "did Peter Parker get a sun burn"?

 

[Sarge034]

Please, by all means, give me a Miles Motherfuckin Morales stand alone movie. I'll still have to have this same argument then because whenever the idea is proposed on this board people ***** about the fact that it should just be Peter Sonofabitchin Parker again. Yes, I've decided those are their names now.

That being said, they're never going to make a Mile Morales stand alone movie until it's proven that the character can make money. So I ask you where can a big movie studio introduce a new character and virtually guarantee that people both notice and like him with minimal risk of alienating audiences. How about a movie where a bunch of name brand heroes take center stage and some upstart kid has a small but pivotal role and can make his stamp. Matter of fact, where have we seen this before? Days of future past did an absolutely brilliant job with Quicksilver's small role. Not to suggest they'll now make a stand alone Quicksilver movie, the character isn't that big. But Miles has the added advantage of having a name brand associated with his super hero persona. Names get no bigger than Spider-Man.

Wow. Such fallacy, much anger, so shortsighted. Seriously though, a collaboration movie is not the place to bring in a character if you want to truly flesh them out. Case in point, Hawkeye. I really like that actor, I really like that character, but I knew next to nothing about him before the movie and I know next to nothing about him after the movie. You just don't have the time to do origin stuff or really flesh out a character when you have to share so much screen time. So they should bring in parker for this one, establish him easily, and if he were to die in one of these big mash ups then that would pave the way for a standalone Miles origin film.

As for your saying no one gets a movie without knowing if they'll make money. Urm, Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant Man are standalone things...

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I hope you realize the irony of your own post.

"From the few still alive, they either have no powers or they are just copies of other heroes. So. What is Miles Morales then?

That said, I hope people refrain from drawing the racist card. The reason I dont want MM has nothing to do with his skin color/ethnicity and everything to do with that its not Spider man. Its the same reason I hated the Garfield cool-kid version of spider-man. That and the fact that Garfield was a fucking atrocity on the screen.

Miles Morales is not spider man to ME. I've grown up reading about Peter Parker. I wouldnt like it if Superman suddenly wasnt called Kal El anymore either, of if Bruce Wayne turned into Drusilla Wayne, or if Black Widow turned into some guy. That would be other characters. If you want other characters, make new ones. Or maybe better yet, have some character development...

Actually, I realized the sadness of reality of my post.

What I said does not detract from my point at all.

Here's the gambit.

If a writer decides to make a new character who is a minority who is powerful, there will be the same people coming in with the well worn "PC IS BULLSHIT" card or waving the "CAN'T WE JUST HAVE THINGS THE WAY THEY WERE" banners.

If a character makes a clone or takes a character idea and make it edgier (Think Spider Man and Kaine), it's a shrug of a shoulders and the thoughts that there are no more original ideas. Do that and make that character a minority, and then the PC outcry is heard again.

If the writer makes an underpowered minority character, people will say the character is uninteresting and only made for PC filler and will probably get wiped out like a lot of characters on that list I already posted.

In short, it does seem that the writers have to copy original ideas to just show a different walk of life. Not even a minority. Just... different.

Now, we agree with one thing. Miles Morales to me is not The Spider-man. But he is A Spider-man, and a damn good one at that. Just like John Stewart isn't THE green lantern, but he's the one I grew up with (I was a Marvel Fanboy until the DCU got animated). Just like Johnny Blaze wasn't everyone's first Ghost Rider. The Hulk was originally Joe Fix-it (although that was just due to a painting error that he became the green one we know today. Also, the Hulk was orignally supposed to turn into the Hulk only at night. A factoid for anyone interested). Beta Ray Bill, Black Goliath... there's a big list out there.

I don't want Peter Parker swept under the rug. I've actually made forum posts about how I think other media really doesn't grasp how good Peter/Spider-man is. but I wasn't a fan of Tobey. Garfield was... Garfield. I wouldn't mind seeing something different. As well, I would also like to see Peter done justice.

 

[Objectable]

I swear, if it's another Peter Parker Origin, I'm shooting Uncle Ben myself.

 

[rgrekejin]

Honestly. For all the people who keep talking about the race of Miles Morales... How long are you going to keep deaf to what we're saying that we actually like Miles as a character and/or blind to the fact that you are the ones who are mainly concerned about race here?

Is it that hard to admit that people like actually like Miles or is it that hard to admit that no one cares about being PC or the race issue as much as yourselves?

I'm not really trying to be mean or anything, but it seems like we're yelling "MILES IS A GOOD CHARACTER" and the rest really seems not to care about that... just how he looks.

As a fellow fan of Miles as a character, let me ask you something.

What, would you say, is the most important aspect of Miles as a character?

It certainly isn't that he's black. It's not his familial relationships either. It's not even the fact that he's Spiderman.

The most important aspect of Miles's character, the thing that makes up the core of who the character is, is that he's the second Spiderman. That's he's wracked with guilt over not having been able to save Peter. That he's constantly trying to live up to Peter's legacy, to discover why Peter did what he did, to the extent that he practically wears a What Would Peter Parker Do? bracelet everywhere he goes.

I love Miles Morales. He's a great character. But he doesn't make sense as anything other than a legacy hero. Everything he does is built around that assumption. If you take that away, and just do the character assuming that he's the first Spiderman, then he ceases to be Miles Morales in any meaningful way. And as a fan of Miles Morales, the last thing I want to see is a Miles-in-name-only character.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

Oh yeah people, lets start bringing in characters like miles in from alternate universes. Because what people are really missing in the mcu is how confusing the comics are right? I tried to start reading x-men comics and failed because it impossible to tell what order to read them in or even what story arcs make sense together. Lets bring that to the movies! Gag me.

There would be no better way to alienate me, a viewer who has payed to see every marvel studios movie released to date, then to gut one of my favorite charactes i grew up with and replace him with someone who has no character without the original. That being said, I would not be against a literal gutting.

Back to the original topic perhaps? Cast Aaron Johnson, aka kickass. If he says no maybe Joseph Gordon-Levitt

Ps. I did not watch the video yet, so forgive me if they also suggested these actors

 

[rgrekejin]

OBack to the original topic perhaps? Cast Aaron Johnson, aka kickass.

Minor complication - he's already Quicksilver in the MCU.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

As a fellow fan of Miles as a character, let me ask you something.

What, would you say, is the most important aspect of Miles as a character?

It certainly isn't that he's black. It's not his familial relationships either. It's not even the fact that he's Spiderman.

The most important aspect of Miles's character, the thing that makes up the core of who the character is, is that he's the second Spiderman. That's he's wracked with guilt over not having been able to save Peter. That he's constantly trying to live up to Peter's legacy, to discover why Peter did what he did, to the extent that he practically wears a What Would Peter Parker Do? bracelet everywhere he goes.

I love Miles Morales. He's a great character. But he doesn't make sense as anything other than a legacy hero. Everything he does is built around that assumption. If you take that away, and just do the character assuming that he's the first Spiderman, then he ceases to be Miles Morales in any meaningful way. And as a fan of Miles Morales, the last thing I want to see is a Miles-in-name-only character.

Which is something I said.

Miles is great. But he's is nothing more than a clone. Just like Mayday, Anya, Silk, all of them. Do I wish Miles could have been more than just a Legacy? Emphatically yes. I find it more interesting that he was 'blessed' with these powers and made the choice "Fuck it, I'm going to be a normal kid". He didn't even want to use it for fame and money like Peter did. Leave all of that to everyone else.

But I know like I know that if you gave Miles a different power set, a different name with no Legacy... The comic probably wouldn't last ten issues. Due to the Gambit I talked about.

Spoiler

Here's the gambit.

If a writer decides to make a new character who is a minority who is powerful, there will be the same people coming in with the well worn "PC IS BULLSHIT" card or waving the "CAN'T WE JUST HAVE THINGS THE WAY THEY WERE" banners.

If a character makes a clone or takes a character idea and make it edgier (Think Spider Man and Kaine), it's a shrug of a shoulders and the thoughts that there are no more original ideas. Do that and make that character a minority, and then the PC outcry is heard again.

If the writer makes an underpowered minority character, people will say the character is uninteresting and only made for PC filler and will probably get wiped out like a lot of characters on that list I already posted.

In short, it does seem that the writers have to copy original ideas to just show a different walk of life. Not even a minority. Just... different.

And I and others are not even saying Miles should replace Spiderman. In my recent post, I said that Miles isn't THE Spiderman, but he is A Spiderman. Just like John Stewart isn't THE Green Lantern, but he is A Green Lantern. If Miles ever gets a movie, the title should reflect who Miles is. If they say it's the 'Amazing Spiderman' and they put Miles there, I'll throw a damn fit. Because the Amazing Spiderman will always be Peter Parker.

but if they simply call the movie "The Ultimate Spiderman".. what's the problem?

 

[Solomon's Ace]

However the trick about Samuel L being the ultimate Nick Fury was, that he still played Nick Fury. Beside being an all time great actor, he didn't play a character that needed loads of backing to fit into the universe; he really was "Just" Nick Fury (... that happen to be black).

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that anyone wants a black actor to play Peter Parker? We want a black actor to play Miles who just happens to be called Spider-man, and who happens to be black.

No not at all. Might not have been 100% clear on that, sorry
No it just seemed like peoples main point about Miles is diversity and the second is that he will work because of Ultimate Nick did. Which I just find a bit Ad Hoc, the arguement about diversity, true, but we have really no idea have it would play out with Miles contra Peter; just that Peter still is the far most proven character.

I'm always thinking what would he bring that Peter wouldn't. If you're tiered of Peter then how is Miles any different? his arc is about him attempting to become "Peter"...

 

[zzrhardy]

In the name of promoting diversity of body types, I suggest Jack Black.