I love where you guys are going with this! I am a huge spidey fan - look, that's ME in the black suit and Fedora. I am also curenlty in possession of a LOT of free time. I account myself a half decent artist, what do you two say to FanFic Time?
I say Stan Lee knocking down our doors with a 'Peep This, True Believers. Subpoena time!'
But we fans have to stick together. Don't want to sound elited, but we fans know what we want. And sometimes we needed to be heeded instead of ignored for the creative mind.
I mean, I write, but I realize my writing would have no worth if no one values it, no matter how creative it is.
My vote is for Dark Knight because not only is Frank Miller a terrible writer, his artwork is just god awful. Often you can say "well the writing was bad bad at least the artwork was nice" or vice versa with a comic, but when Frank does both you have ugly poorly drawn characters saying stupid lines and repeating themselves constantly like they are suffering from brain damage. There is no enjoyment to be gleaned anywhere in those books because when you aren't facepalming at the dialog your cringing at the amateur level artwork.
I mean, personally, I didn't really enjoy it. The art style was a bit too garish and underdeveloped for me, Batman seemed like even more of an obvious power fantasy than usual, the book was cluttered with too many things that it wanted to tackle with none really getting much depth.
Still, if you have anything that could put more of a positive spin on DKSA, I'd be happy to hear it. I mean, I liked Year One, DKR, and Miller's run on Daredevil.
Well, considering how spidermans whole world seems to be turning around his penis, no wonder they went with radioactive semen. It sounds less "awful" and more "Self-aware".
Great episode, I'd never really heard of wither of these before now (prbably bevause I don't read a lot of comics), but they sounds REALLY stupid.
To pull out something from the middle of the episode, though, I never realized how much I wanted Clint Eastwood as Old Man Logan until right now. That would be the coolest thing.
I mean, personally, I didn't really enjoy it. The art style was a bit too garish and underdeveloped for me, Batman seemed like even more of an obvious power fantasy than usual, the book was cluttered with too many things that it wanted to tackle with none really getting much depth.
Still, if you have anything that could put more of a positive spin on DKSA, I'd be happy to hear it. I mean, I liked Year One, DKR, and Miller's run on Daredevil.
The first thing I'll say, like a couple other under-appreciated works (GRRM's A Feast of Crows and A Dance with Dragons) it is the sort of thing that suffers from only being read once.* Once the pressure of needing to know what happens next is relieved, the book, and particularly the art, breathes. At a slower pace the art becomes more of a guide than a representation; it sets the scene and lets one's imagination paint a fuller picture in a way I find difficult with typical comic art.**
Batman seemed like even more of an obvious power fantasy than usual
Batman may be a power fantasy, like Rorschach in some ways, but fantasy is really the key word. His plans only work because he is damaged and largely terrible AND because he is facing cartoonish levels of evil. His power only works within the fantasy and it is only good for destroying that fantasy. The Batman of the DK universe has a built in obsolescence he prophecizess, knowingly*** or not, at the end of the book. That was the old Batman and he'll need to become something new to be of value.
the book was cluttered with too many things that it wanted to tackle with none really getting much depth
It was, but I think that's stylistic. The book is equal parts homage and parody.**** It sets the pace and ramps up the excitement. I know that may sound contradictory to what I said about the art breathing but it's not. You're supposed to be overloaded by words and ideas. The reader is given freedom to select the ideas that are most interesting to them and to explore them in a personal way while breezing over others.
And man what ideas! The private hells (and heavens) of the Justice League, Carrie Kelley,
Dick Grayson and the death of Captain Marvel
, The Question and Green Arrow, Jimmy Olsen. Unlike the video (why does Kyle think Superman didn't love Lois) I even think he manages to do something interesting with Superman's humanity.
I'm lucky in a way. I read DKSA before I really knew about Frank Miller. I'd read DKR and Y1 and seen the Sin City movie. I knew he was an important person, comicwise, but I didn't know anything about his personality or reputation (or ASBAR). I know that my feelings about DKSA could well be wrong in a more objective sense than is normal for art (ex. how much of the political opinions are supposed to be profound gospel), but that's unavoidable I suppose.
I hope this makes a modicum of sense, it's late and I'm trying to articulate thoughts I've never really had to organize before.
*Granted, people are busy and there's a lot of entertainment out there. A work needing multiple readings can be a real issue.
**I'm not making a value judgement here. There's a lot of quality comic art, but even the good stuff I tend to consume superficially unless I work at it.
***His role in Luthor's downfall? Providing a distraction in the form of a punching bag.
****That isn't the best word, but for the life of me I can't think of a better one.
One More Day has already gotten a ton of mentions and for a lot of reasons. Clumsy retconning, stilted and contrived writing, just plain bad scenario setup... the list goes on. I reserve a bit of my vitriol for the anti-escapist commentary in the comic itself, which goes as far as to state that people who get into video games as escapism are losers because we don't get to be heroes in real life... as spoken by an alternate universe Peter Parker. You know, the kind of statement that has be wishing the writer of that bit somehow chokes on his own pants. Also, worst deal with the devil either. Flash did the 'sacrifice their marriage' thing far better and much more convincingly, and finished in a very convincing way. The harm it's done? Well it wrecked decades of continuity and characterization on its own. That's probably enough. As for a better handled Spider-Man piece, well, Spider-Man No More has always been a stirring piece about the real notion of the responsibility that comes as the price of Peter's powers and influences.
All Star Batman and Robin is... worrying. Re-imagining things is one thing. But this? Ugh. Batman deserves better--he's not like the rest of us mentally, certainly not. The Killing Joke (my counterpoint for Batman having been handled better) proved that he had more in common with Joker than either of them would care to admit openly. But portraying him as a violent and unhinged sociopath, gleefully ruining the lives of most of the people he comes across and committing neglectful acts of abject child endangerment and abuse? That's beyond not right. Not helped in the slightest by what I've read of Frank Miller's directing notes for the artist, which is quite literally so cringe-inducing sexist that it's bad, even for someone who's seen enough on Tumblr to become jaded about the public outcry. The way that women are written and depicted in this series is nothing short of vile and edges into misogynistic---there's your harm.
Rob Liefeld's...anything, really. The man's a nice guy, I understand, but honestly... I see a lot of his comics floating around the local used bookstore, and as an amateur commissioned artist, I see the flaws there and I feel bad knowing this man was paid millions for this stuff. As an amateur paid writer, I see the flaws there and I feel bad knowing that this man was paid millions for this stuff. How is it that my drawings resembled human beings more than his did when I was in school? The ills? Boy oh boy. You could lay the whole stupid 90s era of comics at his feet. Art style, writing, characters... you name it. Anyway, as for what he's done that's been done better--Cable (when it got handed off to Fabian Niciezia), Deadpool (when it got handed off to Fabian Niciezia and later Joe Kelly), the whole concept of writing for teams of myriad and disparate heroes working together (Fantastic Four, The Avengers, Justice League, X-Men, Teen Titans, really, the list of well written teams goes on)...
I should stop before I start depressing myself or anyone else any further thinking about what's gone wrong with this industry.
Frank Miller hasn't done much of anything interesting in years, in my opinion. All Star Batman is alright. But I can't take it seriously, it's more like a parody of Batman. Fun to read and joke about, but the story isn't anything great. All I got out it was "The Goddamn Batman" and how much of a dick he is, painting rooms yellow, while sipping lemonade to make fun of Green Lantern.
That said, I do appreciate his influence. Without Ronin and Daredevil, one of my favourite comic series wouldn't have been created. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Anyway, I've never followed comics too closely, I just pick one up every so often.
I never considered his sperm being the thing killing her, until I heard people mocking it.
As far as I remember, it was that he as a whole was being radio-active, and I think 'fluids' were mentioned, but I assumed it meant saliva because I assumed they'd use a condom when having sex.
It doesn't make it good, though.
I just mostly remember it being dull and forgettable, which you might either argue is better or worse than Miller's lunacy.
Surely ASBAR, AKA "The Adventures of Crazy Steve" is the worst goddamn Batman story? But I'm unsurprised that Miller has produced something even worse. Why do people trust him with the Batman Franchise again
And if we are talking about Miller, this comic by David Willis is of course always appropriate
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