Nobel laureate forced out of studies after making joke about women

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

There are a lot of scientists out there who are really quirky or weird (ever hear Richard Dawkins trivialise sexual assault because he believes his own experience of being molested didn't traumatise him?) because genius goes hand in hand with madness. If you start kicking them all out because they said something weird or wore a unprofessional shirt you could end up sacrificing a lot of scientific progress. Tell him he's being a dickhead, punish him but then allow the Nobel prize winner to keep contributing to science in his job I say.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The idea that the kind of people who pull these stunts off (ie. taking part in group bitching and Twitter slacktivism) call themselves feminists or say they're fighting the "patriarchy" almost makes my blood boil. I bet you'll never see them taking on Iran's ayatollah, dalit rapes in India

Going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that many people complaining about this have very limited power over Iran's ayatollah.

I'm also guessing that people complaining about them also aren't doing much about Iran's ayatollah.

 

[DeimosMasque]

Was he in the wrong? Yes. I think it is safe to say his comment was offensive and even as a joke, the venue of which he made that statement was the wrong place to do it.

Did he deserve to lose his job over it? No. People say stupid things all the time, in the wrong venues more often than not. Suspended without pay for a bit, sure. Maybe made to make an apology (as half hearted as that may have been?) Perhaps. But not fired.

Do I think he'll have any problem getting another teaching job/lab job/grant? No. Let's face it, he messed up in public, it happens. If anything the overreaction will make places -more- sympathetic to him rather than less. That's the problem with obvious overreactions. Most people ignore them after they recognize them for what they are. And being a Nobel laureate is pretty much a feather in the hat of any company, lab or school that will take them.

To sum up. The decision was wrong, but I have no doubts he'll land on his feet. Hell even Brian Cox is defending him and that's a man you want on your side... period.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Yeah some internal discipline and a verbal slap across the knuckles should have sufficed for this.

 

[Bat Vader]

If someone wants to say or do something risky or stupid I say let them. It's their own fault if whatever they said or did comes back to bit them in the ass later.

 

[Zhukov]

Wow. I didn't know it was possible to fit that much foot in one's mouth.

It wasn't just someone making a crummy joke among friends. He stood his arse up and said it at a gathering of female scientists. Seems he only trotted out the ol' "it was just a joke" routine once it blew up in his face.

On the other hand, getting the sack for a remark, no matter how dumb, seems entirely excessive.

Not a fan of the Twitter lynch mob harpies either.

 

[renegade7]

Yes, that's what it's like to work in the lab.

Just sexy people in labcoats falling in love and crying. Like on Scrubs.

And apparently my weak male brain can't handle the pressure of working with a female partner. I must be separated from the women, or who knows what I might do when I lose control because my brain is taken over by carnal lust?

The fact that it was a joke does not make it okay. He is a Nobel Laureate and one of the foremost scientists in the world in his field. Being a leader does not excuse the behavior, it makes the standards expected of him all the higher. This wasn't an off-hand joke he made to some friends on their downtime, he stood up in front of a room full of women as a speaker in a panel on women in science and then made the comment that laboratories should be gender segregated because women cry, can't control themselves emotionally, and are so sexy that they distract men. That was not a smart thing to do.

I will say this though, from experience. Academic science is an absolute shitshow of petty squabbling and politics. Reputation is the lifeblood of academia. Departments compete for very limited grant money, and the grant writers are absolutely paranoid about the possibility of losing face.

It's insane, and it's utterly ridiculous that he lost his job over it, when a formal apology should have been all it took. By all counts, he appears to have been a capable teacher and an excellent scientist. It's also inexcusable that his wife should have taken the blowback as well. However, I have confidence that once this has all blown over cooler heads will prevail and he will be able to appeal the decision.

 

[Risingblade]

Comedy is hard, sometimes it can even cost you your job.

 

[DementedSheep]

He shouldn't have been fired (unless that was the straw that broke the camels back) but it wasn't a "joke". As per usual, calling it a joke is just being used as flimsy shield to deflect blowback.
I used to be surprised people fall for this bullshit all the time but now I suspect most don't actually fall for it and instead just pick up the same shield for the same reason.

 

[Phasmal]

Wow. I didn't know it was possible to fit that much foot in one's mouth.

It wasn't just someone making a crummy joke among friends. He stood his arse up and said it at a gathering of female scientists. Seems he only trotted out the ol' "it was just a joke" routine once it blew up in his face.

On the other hand, getting the sack for a remark, no matter how dumb, seems entirely excessive.

Not a fan of the Twitter lynch mob harpies either.

Yeah kinda this. Guy's a jerk, in my opinion, and should have been told he was a jerk and reprimanded, but losing his job is over the top.
And I saw this back when he was doing the `I'm just being honest` excuse, there was no mention of it being a joke at all, so that's just backpedalling.

Spoiler: This is why I don't do Twitter

I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.

Really Caramel? I actually think it would be pretty much the same with a woman, except it would be the anti-sjw crowd calling for their head on a plate/firing.

Either way it shouldn't happen, but I don't think it'd be much different.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

If someone wants to say or do something risky or stupid I say let them. It's their own fault if whatever they said or did comes back to bit them in the ass later.

That doesn't absolve the lynch mob from overreacting. Also, how far are you willing to stick by this philosophy? If someone speaks ill of a dictator amongst friends and is reported and imprisoned/executed, are we supposed to blame them for the result? What if someone is executed for questioning the dominant religion of the area, is it still the victim's fault? What of all the civil rights activists who were beaten by literal lynch mobs for expressing risky opinions? Still to blame?

There has to be a point where it becomes the fault of those punishing people for their opinions, and I would say this is definitely in the unfair camp.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.

Really Caramel? I actually think it would be pretty much the same with a woman, except it would be the anti-sjw crowd calling for their head on a plate/firing.

Either way it shouldn't happen, but I don't think it'd be much different.

Doubt it. While there might be a bit of grumbling on some forums, I very highly doubt they would lose their job.

 

[Phasmal]

Doubt it. While there might be a bit of grumbling on some forums, I very highly doubt they would lose their job.

Okay. I'm sure I've heard of women losing their jobs for saying dumb things, but I don't follow twitter nontroversies closely, so I can't give examples, so I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree.

 

[Something Amyss]

Comedy is hard, sometimes it can even cost you your job.

I imagine comedy gets a lot harder when your original excuse is "I'm just being honest."

 

[BytByte]

Wow, what he said was really stupid.

Wow, the outrage that cost him his job was even stupider.

Wow, it's easy to be stupid.

 

[Evil Smurf]

He was not sacked, he quit, and it was not a joke, it was sexist comment. Good riddance for sexist shitbags.

 

[Fox12]

Sometimes really smart people say really stupid things.

Still, it wasn't bad enough to get fired for. Meanwhile Lars Von Trier is an avowed Nazi, and the world gives a collective shrug.

Edit: Ah, he quit? No sympathies there, then. What a baby.

 

[Parasondox]

At least it's not the shirt scandal of last year. The mob drove that man to tears and all he did was WORE A FUCKING SHIRT!!!

Welcome to the new internet age, ladies and gents.

 

[EternallyBored]

I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.

Really Caramel? I actually think it would be pretty much the same with a woman, except it would be the anti-sjw crowd calling for their head on a plate/firing.

Either way it shouldn't happen, but I don't think it'd be much different.

Doubt it. While there might be a bit of grumbling on some forums, I very highly doubt they would lose their job.

If only that were true, we just had that woman in London that had internet petitions and in-person protests asking the university to fire her for her remarks against Males. She wasn't fired, but there was a hell of a lot more than just, "a bit of grumbling on some forums", there was an organized effort to remove her from her position.

There was also that petition to get Anita Sarkeesian removed from supposedly working on Mirror's edge 2, that petition got over 50,000 signatures before EA stepped in to shut down that rumor. Somewhere around 50,000 people tried to get her fired from a job she didn't even have, there were physical letter writing campaigns too, people wrote in to protest her supposedly working on the project.

We could argue that people in these cases would be less likely to lose their jobs due to remarks against majority power groups being taken less seriously, but the response is still definitely more than grumbling on internet forums.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.

Really Caramel? I actually think it would be pretty much the same with a woman, except it would be the anti-sjw crowd calling for their head on a plate/firing.

Either way it shouldn't happen, but I don't think it'd be much different.

Doubt it. While there might be a bit of grumbling on some forums, I very highly doubt they would lose their job.

If only that were true, we just had that woman in London that had internet petitions and in-person protests asking the university to fire her for her remarks against Males. She wasn't fired, but there was a hell of a lot more than just, "a bit of grumbling on some forums", there was an organized effort to remove her from her position.

There was also that petition to get Anita Sarkeesian removed from supposedly working on Mirror's edge 2, that petition got over 50,000 signatures before EA stepped in to shut down that rumor. Somewhere around 50,000 people tried to get her fired from a job she didn't even have, there were physical letter writing campaigns too, people wrote in to protest her supposedly working on the project.

We could argue that people in these cases would be less likely to lose their jobs due to remarks against majority power groups being taken less seriously, but the response is still definitely more than grumbling on internet forums.

I don't know about the first woman, but Anita has done more to gain the contempt of the internet than a single quote. While the response towards her is completely ridiculous, as is the other woman (most likely, since I don't know any thing about it), either way this isn't much more than people grumbling on the internet since neither of these attempts have amounted to anything more than a bunch of noise that was ignored.