chuckman1 said:
Therumancer said:
I'm gonna have to disagree with some points here. You sort of sound like a guy who believes in American exceptionalism (I sort of do too).
First, I'll give you that not having completely closed borders allows commers (including black market) to flourish and for triads/cartels to operate here and spread violence. But I'm pretty sure violence is mostly American vs American in the US. Also your comment about "black counter culture" sounds like a racist 50 year old who thinks they're politically correct. I'm pretty sure the majority of murders in the US are committed by whites. Maybe if you are talking about gangs, which encourage violence, I can see what you're trying to see. But black gangs started later in the USA than white, mexican, and chinese gangs. Don't beleive the media with their portrayal of all black men as thugs.
Gun shots in the hood are gonna mainly be two reasons.
Revenge (Killed my cousin, banged my girlfriend, etc.)
Drugs (Robbing, stopping the robber, killing the debtor, etc.)
It is not about "black counter culture" for god sake.
Also I have always found the term "civilized" to be complete bullshit that colonists used.
"Hey conquistador Carlos let's go murder and rape some brown people for GOD AND JESUS!!!!"
"YEAH AWESOME they are not civilized so our swords and guns are purifying the savages and bringing the light of god"
It might sound racist to you, and others, but I feel that's on you more than anything and one of the reasons why I oppose liberalism that has engrained such mentalities. To be brutally honest with you I'm actually worse than a racist in some ways when you get down to it, because if I believed blacks were in some way inferior to whites that would present an excuse. What's more it would bring up the moral question of us being responsible for our inferiors and taking care of them. Rather as a believer in human equality, this means that I can expect the same things of one group of humans as I do from another. Thus when I seem to be cruel, or ruthless, when talking about "minority" groups in the US I do so from the position that I can expect the same exact thing from them as I do from everyone else. While he's current a pariah due to sexual accusations, I tend to think Bill Cosby of all people (as much as I dislike his overall politics) was far better at articulating the problem than I am. The problem isn't equality so much as black entitlement and how black counter-culture has caused black America to squander all of the opportunities that had been fought for. As even leaders like Martin Luthor King (Jr.) pointed out the hard part was after that battle was won, because winning the right to be part of society still means you have to adapt to join it. It's easier to fight an enemy and blame others than it is to change yourself. Bill Cosby is a guy who literally spent millions of dollars of his own money supporting black education (he has a PHD in Children's Education) and has said flat out that you simply cannot help a bunch of people who see it as being more noble to wind up dead, face down, in a ghetto with a gun in their hand and drugs in their pocket, than it is to join the grind and work 9 to 5 and live hand to mouth like anyone else. Blacks are raised to believe the only places to be is in the top 1% or at the very bottom fighting to get into the top 1% outside of the system, anything else is unworthy, as all it does is replace the guy with a bullwhip with a dude holding a pay check over your head (which is simply life for this society). You can by the books, provide the computers, etc... but none of that matters to a people who believe embracing such things is selling out and will actively destroy those things as some kind of statement.
When it comes to arguments that blacks do not commit more crimes, I disagree as their ethnic neighborhoods tend to be the most crime ridden. What's more as liberals will point out frequently there is a massive percentage of the black population in prison, with blacks vastly outnumbering whites. Liberals like to argue this is because of racism except for more crimes being committed, but I happen to disagree. What's more the whole idea of measuring white vs. black crime has to be done integral to their own population, not in an overall sense. The majority will always outnumber a minority. According to some studies you find something between 60 and 80% of blacks having some kind of criminal record compared to whites where the percentage is much, much lower. The whole problem right now is that being in denial the statistics showing blacks commit more crimes are used to try and prove a point about discrimination in law enforcement, not a problem with black culture.
See black *culture* is the key word here, there is no genetic imperative that forces a black person to go out and commit crimes, blacks are no more violent than anyone else, no less intelligent, and no more emotionally unstable. What it comes down to entirely is a culture teaching entitlement, criminal nobility, and a justified crusade for some kind of societal payback. This comes out all through black culture where their heroes and icons are oftentimes those at least pretending to be criminals, and justifying such behavior in the context of a modern society. The so called "git rich or die trying" attitude. When black celebrities promote their prison records as a positive thing, and out each other for lying about their criminal pasts that tends to represent a problem, and it says a lot about who you are dealing with. Black America is about trying to force the US to adapt to it, as opposed to adapting themselves to join the rest of the country.
See as a general rule I think Black America needs a metaphorical boot up it's ass without media protection, rather than some kind of suppression and outright control due to them being "inferior" as many racists will claim. Your not going to end all crime by blacks any more than you will with other people, or anything like that, but there does need to be a zero tolerance policy for the "git rich or die trying" attitude or claims of entitlement.
Like with so many things though, which go beyond this issue, this makes me "worse" than a real racist because at the end of the day racial oppression is relatively easy. If we really wanted to we could outright annihilate entire portions of the gene pool, or just flat out pass and enforce racist policies and call it a day. Direct conflict of that sort is easy, assimilation is hard, and from our point we need to be dropping the hammer with the right intent, which is pretty much to assimilate black America into the rest of society, even if they continue to go kicking, screaming, and howling with pain. In the long run that's what benefits humanity.
As far as American exceptionalism goes, all I can really say is "meh" we're the most enlightened and civilized people on the planet right now, but frankly we spend too much time in contemplative navel gazing and self imposed moral crisis to be exceptional in any way, we just don't have the confidence. Once there was a possibility for the US to be truly exceptional but that ship has sailed. Besides I think we more or less share what passes for our crown with the UK, Australia, and Canada, we're all pretty much the children of the British Empire and on a basic level we're more alike than different since despite rebellions and changes we all came from the same basic parent. Some would consider it very un-American to say so, but in it's own way the British Empire was actually more exceptional than we are, having lasted longer, and arguably accomplished more before overextending itself. The US is as a general rule too unsure of itself and almost entirely reactive. When we do try and act we get involved anywhere we tend to immediately engage ourselves in a psychotic internal monologue that cripples us from accomplishing anything and usually winds up with us losing people and treasure, and having very little of lasting import to show for it. American principles are wonderful, but arguably too far ahead of the time they exist in. I tend to actually be very critical of the US, but for very different reasons than liberals.
As far as civilization goes, I likewise tend to stand by my sentiments. Like it or not some nations and cultures are not as advanced as others, and degrees of civilization tend to start with whoever is the most advanced. What is a very civilized society one day can be barbarians in a century or so, and of course relative barbarians can sometimes change to define civilization themselves over the sweep of history. Like it or not in the pursuit of trying to make a finer world societies and cultures come into conflict with each other, and which is better and more civilized isn't really all that subjective no matter how liberals tend to spin it. The best interests of humanity lie with the survival and dominance of the greatest civilizations, social Darwinism, like any other form of evolution, can be quite cruel at times, but is no less necessary. As I say this I speak with the full understanding that we might very well see a time where a more civilized society eradicates the USA, though truthfully I think being overrun by Barbarians due to being too advanced for our time is a much greater possibility. If the UK and it's children are ever all wiped out I personally believe it will bring about another dark age of a sort, but that's an entirely different discussion. That said unlike the old days of Conquistidors I believe assimilation as opposed to extermination is the way to go. Had I been running the show in South America rather than burning my own ships in a "no retreat" policy once I found the civilizations down there I'd have attempted to use my influence to make the people there subjects of the Spanish crown, I'd still probably wind up killing 80-90% of them but at the end of the day the people themselves would survive and I think everyone would wind up benefitting. Truthfully had Spain done that as opposed to not engaging in robbery and genocide I don't think it would have glutted it's economy the same way and lost it's role as a dominant world power. Pushing an agenda of racial superiority as opposed to cultural superiority tends to be counter productive in most cases. For all the racist crap it arguably talked the Romans sort of had the right idea, while they did exterminate entire people, for the most part they simply broke them enough to slowly assimilate the survivors, and the Romans wound up being the dominant power longer than almost anyone, and when they fell due to internal decadence it did literally cause a dark age as the entire world suffered for their loss.
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