Grunt_Man11 said:
You just proved my statement that it wasn't impossible for Japan to have invaded the US correct with your meteor comment, and you call my argument weak? Try again.
Don't play me for an idiot. We both know this wasn't your original point. You seriously believed, with zero proof, that Japan had intentions of invading the US after Pearl Harbor and you seriously believed that they could do it successfully. As I've made incredibly clear, that's mental. But if that's all, then you win! An meteorite could of won the war for Japan! What insight!
Grunt_Man11 said:
Here's another scenario that would of made it quite possible for Japan to invade the US. They never attack Pearl Harbor.
Oops. Already a problem. The USA already hates the Japanese and vice versa. The diplomacy between the two nations was nothing next to violent. The USA wanted Japan to get out of China and was doing everything in its power to bully them without actually declaring war. There is tons of evidence (that I won't post in fear of making my post too long - considering you didn't even take in any of the things I mentioned in my earlier post it would be a lost cause) that suggests the US and Japan were bound for war.
I don't think you know this, but the USA were putting seriously heavy restrictions on the Japanese that prevented them from expanding their empire. See, the Japanese wanted fuel that they didn't have. The USA were being very clever and sneaky and were placing as many obstacles in the way of the Japanese to do so.
You see,
this is why the Japanese attacked them. No one in Japan wanted to attack the US, because they all realised they would be squashed like bugs. They were forced into attacking them and taking a huge risk - because their expansion depended on the US leaving the picture. So what is the best hope of that? A quick attack that sends the US flying. The Japanese all knew this was a gamble and most of them, I imagine, probably knew it wasn't going to work. However, they had to do it. They couldn't get enough resources to keep China and take the Pacific unless they knocked America out.
The weird thing about you is that you are arguing in favour of Japan in a way that no Japanese commander would agree with. You'd be laughed out of Tokyo if you brought up this theory in the war room.
But, for the sake of this, I'll pretend - in some weird universe - the USA and Japan never fought.
Although, if the USA and Japan never fought Japan would have lasted an even shorter amount of time.
Grunt_Man11 said:
Instead, they do their best to bide their time and wait for Germany to defeat the wounded Britain.
Another problem. Germany fighting the USA was pretty much inevitable. The USA was supplying Great Britain's navy with resources and was actually already sending troops (Marines I beleive) to occupy island and prevent German attacks. In 1941 (before the "war" was official) US Marines occupied Iceland and were ready for combat if Germany came their way. You can talk about the theory of splendid isolationism all you like, but the facts show the USA was ready to fight.
Also, Germany were sinking US supply boats on their way to England. So I have a really hard time America were going to sit this one out. But once again, I'll agree with your poor reasoning for the sake of it.
Grunt_Man11 said:
Conquering Britain gives the Germans the resources and time needed to take down Russia.
This is a really tricky one, because relations between Russia and Germany were really quite complex and fragile. Whilst they had somewhat of a "peace" treaty in 1941, both sides hated each other and both sides knew they were about to fight.
If Germany placed their sole attention on the UK and left the Balkans, the Russians would have undoubtedly sped through into Berlin and destroyed them. Undoubtedly. Hitler knew this, and that's why he couldn't "conquer" Britain.
I don't think you realise how much effort it is to invade a country. It takes millions of men and it takes serious amounts of time. You can't just win a battle and take over the country. It would take years and years to take Britain, and it would take around 60%-70% of the German army to do so. They would be leaving their Eastern flank open to a bloodthirsty enemy who they knew wanted to slit their throats (Russia).
This is the reason the Germans didn't do this. They seriously considered it.
Believe it or not, this actually isn't alternate history. This has already been discussed and was considered by the Germans. The reality was however, they couldn't afford to invade England because it would be a guaranteed victory for Russia. So no, I'm not accepting this one.
Grunt_Man11 said:
Caught between the encroaching German army and Japan, China falls.
China had already fallen mate. Due to domestic problems.
Grunt_Man11 said:
Australia decides it can't take on both the German and Japanese navy and retreats, or is possibly crushed by them. Leaving the US wide open for two invading armies.
You are forgetting the Middle East, India and the Dutch. To do this, Japan would have had to wiped them all out. This would take ten years.
Grunt_Man11 said:
I would ask what you think of that, but I think know what you would say.
Something along the line of throwing your hands in the air and crying "ridiculous."
Says the guy who thinks you can invade the most powerful and industrious country on Earth with 1.5 million men and just spent a full hour, without any proof, trying to convince me that Japan could have invaded the USA, China, India, South Africa, Australia, the Middle East, The Pacific with a few million men and only twelve aircraft carriers.
Yep. I'm the naive one. Despite all the effort I've gone through to give you bucket loads of 100% valid reasons as to why this is all mental (none of which you have even remotely tried to debunk).
Grunt_Man11 said:
I know the idea of the US being invaded or attacked is scary, but get over it.
What? It doesn't scare me one little bit. I would still have been born and my life may have even been better today. I have a Japanese parent and have no US blood in me at all. I wouldn't be affected.
Grunt_Man11 said:
I know the idea of how different history could of played out if just one, or a few, variables are changed is scary, but get over it.
It's not scary, it's incredibly interesting. I have proven why I'm right in saying Japan had no hope of doing anything lasting in World War 2. All the reasons are right here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.271074-North-Korea-Dont-make-me-laugh?page=3#10430132
The only response you've given me is "IMPOSSIBLE MEANS 0% CHANCE SO YOU ARE WRONG!".
And really, judging from the fact that instead of discussing with me where you disagree with my statements you are just putting words in my mouth and making straw men - I'd say you are just about done here.