Novajam Needs Computer Building Help

[Novajam]

Sorry to add another "Computer Help" thread, but we don't appear to have a central place for this sort of thing.

My PC isn't doing too great. It runs very hot, you need to press reset three times to get the thing to start, it doesn't always recognise that there's a DVD drive attached, the graphics card is on it's last legs and it's all in all become very difficult to work with.

So I've decided it's time for a whole new system, built up from scratch. I'm pretty new to the PC building game, but I've made up a short list of parts from what I keep hearing is good around here, various reviews and good ol' Eggo's charts [http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pWf0R65ULXAnAeeKgKpmlUA&gid=37]:

<spoiler=First draft>Case: Thermaltake Wing RS101 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CAS-TTVG8000BNS/Default.aspx] $69.00
Power Supply: Cooler Master Extreme Power V2.01, 650W [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/PSU-CMRP650PCAR/Default.aspx] $118.90
Motherboard: Gigabyte N650SLI-DS4 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/MBGAN650SLIDS4/Default.aspx] $119.00
CPU: Intel E7400 Core 2 Duo, 2.8GHz [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CPU-INT-E7400/Default.aspx] $191.00
Heatsink: Cooler Master X Dream 4 CPU Cooler [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CLCMRRLEEL911/Default.aspx] $29.00
HDD: Western Digital 320 GB [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/H3S320WD320AAKS/Default.aspx] $73.00
Memory: Kingston 1GB DDR2-800 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/RD208001GN6/Default.aspx] (two sticks) $50.00 ($25 each)
Graphics Card: Sapphire Radeon HD4850 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/GC4850512SA41R/Default.aspx] $229.00
Sound Card: Creative SB0680 OEM Sound Blaster 5.1 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/AUDSCCRSB0680/Default.aspx] $35.00
Network Card: NetGear GA311GE [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/NWNICNGGA311GE/Default.aspx] $35.00
DVD: Samsung SH-S223F [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/OPT-DVRS223FBES/Default.aspx] $30.00

Making a grand total of $978.90 (AUD), keeping within my ~$1000 target. I'll probably shell out another $150-200 for a decent monitor. I intend to use it mainly for gaming, but also a lot of websurfing, writing and video and music playing. I'll be installing Windows XP on this, for which I already own a disc. I will probably carry over my current speakers, mouse, keyboard and printer over as well. All the internal parts of my current computer will be staying where they are, in case of this exercise being a complete failure.

Again, I'm a bit in the dark when it comes to building computers, but everybody keeps saying that self-built computers trump premades every time, so as a newbie to the practice may I ask:

1) Will this combination of parts work?
2) Am I forgetting anything important?
3) Is it worth shelling out for an extra 2 GBs of memory?
4) Is 650 watts enough power? Too much?
5) Do I stand to save any money anywhere by using something else?

Any help is greatly appreciated

EDIT: New list made thanks to the kind help of people here:

<spoiler=Second draft>Case: Thermaltake Wing RS101 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CAS-TTVG8000BNS/Default.aspx] $75.00
Power Supply: Cooler Master Extreme Power V2.01, 650W [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/PSU-CMRP650PCAR/Default.aspx] $123.68
Motherboard: Gigabyte EP43-UD3L [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/MBGAEP43UD3L/Default.aspx] $175.00
CPU: Intel E7400 Core 2 Duo, 2.8GHz [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CPU-INT-E7400/Default.aspx] $189.00
HDD: Western Digital 320 GB [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/H3S320WD320AAKS/Default.aspx] $79.00
Memory: Kingston 4GB-Kit DDR2-667 RAM [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/RD206674KKT/Default.aspx] $79.00
Graphics Card: Sapphire Radeon HD4850 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/GC4850512SA41R/Default.aspx] $229.00
DVD: Samsung SH-S223F [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/OPT-DVRS223FBES/Default.aspx] $32.00

It's basically the same as the first draft, but with the heatsink, sound card and network card stripped and using the extra $100 for a PCI-E 2.0 motherboard and two 2GB sticks of memory instead of two 1GB sticks (which per GB is actually cheaper), making a grand total of $991.68.

The HDD will probably stay at 320 GB, because I'm using a 400 GB HDD now, and I've only taken up about a quarter of that so far. I think 320 Gigs will be plenty for my purposes.

While I would love a HD4870, the jump in price from the HD4850 is just too much as is the jump from an E7400 to an E8400. Seeing as they're already quite competent on their own, I see no reason to throw an extra ~$150 at it for a nominal performance increase.

Thanks again everyone. You've been a big help

3rd list up, because saving money is great.

Case: Thermaltake Wing RS101 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CAS-TTVG8000BNS/Default.aspx] $69.00
Power Supply: OCZ STEALTHXSTREAM 500W [http://www.skycomp.com.au/product.aspx?id=155407] $104.00
Motherboard: Gigabyte EP43-UD3L [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/MBGAEP43UD3L/Default.aspx] $175.00
CPU: Intel E7400 Core 2 Duo, 2.8GHz [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CPU-INT-E7400/Default.aspx] $184.00
HDD: Samsung SATA2 500 GB [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/H3S500HD502IJ/Default.aspx] $84.00
Memory: Kingston 4GB-Kit DDR2-800 RAM [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/RD208004KN6/Default.aspx] $65.00
Graphics Card: Alternative seller [https://www.skycomp.com.au/product.aspx?id=126049], $229.00 + Shipping)
DVD: Samsung SH-S223F [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/OPT-DVRS223FBES/Default.aspx] $30.00

I won't need the 650 watt Power Supply I was planning on using, and going down to a 500 watt saves at least $20 straight away. Austin Computers appears to allow people to order their items online and then pick them up at the store, meaning I can get the cheaper online price and not have to pay postage, saving a good deal more money.

I've decided to get a variant of the HD4850 with a bog ol' fan strapped to the side, though I will have to have to order it in since no local computer shops seem to carry them, as I will the new power supply. I'll also get a 500 gig hard drive, and a case fan [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CL120CMC2R20AC/Default.aspx] since they're dirt cheap. If all goes as planned, it should cost a nice round $941.00, plus some extra for a fan and postage. I'll think about using the saved $50 for upgrades on what I've got here, or maybe I'll just buy games with it

Thanks again to everybody who has helped. Have a cookie and a pat on the back.

 

[Wolvaroo]

I assume the prices are in AUD? Not familiar with the exchange rate for'em.

Don't bother with anything but a high end sound card if you want one as anything that's mediocre will barely differ from your onboard and take up a valuable PCI slot. You wont need a network card unless you require wireless as the onboard will suffice.

With the inexpensive high capacity HDDs and growing size of modern games, I'd reccomend ATLEAST 500GBs. Preferably a TB.

If you plan to use a 64 bit OS, which you should if you want to use Vista or the ever nearing Windows 7. You'll need more than 2GBs of RAM. Though for 32 bit XP it will suffice.

If building computers in new to you. You probably Shouldn't worry about extra heatsinks or fans just yet.

Also be aware that without a motherboard with PCI-E 2.0 your GPU will bottleneck and you wont get full use of it. This is a good place to look for future proofing.

It's worth checking around other sites for good deals. Remember a few extra bucks more for a better part will last you that little bit longer.

www.ncix.com
www.tigerdirect.com
www.newegg.com

Are all good. Shipping outside NA may not be possible/feasible, but still valid for price comparisons and much more importantly, USER REVIEWS.

If you need some more specific help a general price range (USD would be your best bet to avoid confusion) and list of things you'll be using the computer for would go a long way.

 

[Lord Krunk]

3) Is it worth shelling out for an extra 2 GBs of memory?
4) Is 650 watts enough power? Too much?
5) Do I stand to save any money anywhere by using something else?

Any help is greatly appreciated

While I don't know the answers to the first two, I will have to say that 650W is all you will ever need (unless you get a Core i7) in a PSU, Eggo would say to get 4GB of RAM (Which is dirt cheap, I might add), and you might want to look at the right OS. Myself, I would say XP, but some people wouldn't, as you're not making the most out of your RAM.

I'm looking at buying a new computer myself, and I would say that if you were to go anywhere for a new computer in Australia, take a look at MSY [http://www.msy.com.au/]. However, I don't know if the WA store is close.

 

[DeadMG]

You may want to consider also recycling some components from your previous PC like DVD and HDD. However I second that you'll never need a dedicated network card or sound card, unless you're going to get a damn good one. A mediocre one is not worth the cash.

Buying 2x1GB like that, you would be much better off buying a raw 4GB kit.

http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/RD206674KKT/Default.aspx

4GB - $75, an increase you can afford after cutting $70 for sound and network cards, and you won't regret it. So now you have about $65 more to spend to hit your 1000 limit. I'd probably go for

http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CPU-INT-E8400/Default.aspx

to replace your E7400. I looked for graphics cards upgrades, but the HD4870 has a big price increase. The E8400 goes a little over budget but it's only like $20.

 

[Novajam]

Added part prices, and what I'll be using it for, for clarity.

I assume the prices are in AUD? Not familiar with the exchange rate for'em.

Don't bother with anything but a high end sound card if you want one as anything that's mediocre will barely differ from your onboard and take up a valuable PCI slot. You wont need a network card unless you require wireless as the onboard will suffice.

With the inexpensive high capacity HDDs and growing size of modern games, I'd reccomend ATLEAST 500GBs. Preferably a TB.

If you plan to use a 64 bit OS, which you should if you want to use Vista or the ever nearing Windows 7. You'll need more than 2GBs of RAM. Though for 32 bit XP it will suffice.

If building computers in new to you. You probably Shouldn't worry about extra heatsinks or fans just yet.

Also be aware that without a motherboard with PCI-E 2.0 your GPU will bottleneck and you wont get full use of it. This is a good place to look for future proofing.

It's worth checking around other sites for good deals. Remember a few extra bucks more for a better part will last you that little bit longer.

www.ncix.com
www.tigerdirect.com
www.newegg.com

Are all good. Shipping outside NA may not be possible/feasible, but still valid for price comparisons and much more importantly, USER REVIEWS.

If you need some more specific help a general price range (USD would be your best bet to avoid confusion) and list of things you'll be using the computer for would go a long way.

I wasn't entirely sure if the processor came with it's own heatsink and fan or not, and chucked one into the equation anyway. Turns out it does. Shows what I know.

You've got me considering dropping the heatsink, sound card and network card in favour of a 640 GB HDD and PCIE 2.0 motherboard. I'll look around the web (esp. those sites you posted) as well. Cheers for the advice.

3) Is it worth shelling out for an extra 2 GBs of memory?
4) Is 650 watts enough power? Too much?
5) Do I stand to save any money anywhere by using something else?

Any help is greatly appreciated

While I don't know the answers to the first two, I will have to say that 650W is all you will ever need (unless you get a Core i7) in a PSU, Eggo would say to get 4GB of RAM (Which is dirt cheap, I might add), and you might want to look at the right OS. Myself, I would say XP, but some people wouldn't, as you're not making the most out of your RAM.

I'm looking at buying a new computer myself, and I would say that if you were to go anywhere for a new computer in Australia, take a look at MSY [http://www.msy.com.au/]. However, I don't know if the WA store is close.

RAM is cheap, yes, but I'm hesitant to buy 4 gigs if it'll just be sapped up by XP.
MSY have a branch in Balcatta, but their stock looks a tad limited. But if they've got a real bargain then it'll be worth the bus fare.

Thank for the help, Krunk.

 

[Novajam]

You may want to consider also recycling some components from your previous PC like DVD and HDD. However I second that you'll never need a dedicated network card or sound card, unless you're going to get a damn good one. A mediocre one is not worth the cash.

Buying 2x1GB like that, you would be much better off buying a raw 4GB kit.

http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/RD206674KKT/Default.aspx

4GB - $75, an increase you can afford after cutting $70 for sound and network cards, and you won't regret it. So now you have about $65 more to spend to hit your 1000 limit. I'd probably go for

http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CPU-INT-E8400/Default.aspx

to replace your E7400. I looked for graphics cards upgrades, but the HD4870 has a big price increase. The E8400 goes a little over budget but it's only like $20.

My DVD drive is stuffed. So much so that it won't eject a disc without a fight, so I'd kind of prefer to by a new one that I know will work than fight more with the old one. I'd also like to keep the old computer together in case of major stuff-ups so while it's is a good idea, it isn't quite suitable for my purposes. But I'll keep it in mind for future builds.

Dropping for extra Memory sounds attractive but again, I don't want it to go to waste on the OS. However now that you suggest it, I would lean towards a 3.0 GHz Processor and extra Memory rather than a bigger HDD and PCI-E 2.0 Motherboard. My list will need tweaking...

Thanks for your help DeadMG

 

[mackem]

You may want to consider also recycling some components from your previous PC like DVD and HDD. However I second that you'll never need a dedicated network card or sound card, unless you're going to get a damn good one. A mediocre one is not worth the cash.

Buying 2x1GB like that, you would be much better off buying a raw 4GB kit.

http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/RD206674KKT/Default.aspx

4GB - $75, an increase you can afford after cutting $70 for sound and network cards, and you won't regret it. So now you have about $65 more to spend to hit your 1000 limit. I'd probably go for

http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/CPU-INT-E8400/Default.aspx

to replace your E7400. I looked for graphics cards upgrades, but the HD4870 has a big price increase. The E8400 goes a little over budget but it's only like $20.

Ok, recommending the 8400 is just plain stupid. It is a bit better but for somebody who is already close to their budget recommending a CPU that is almost $100 more expensive is just plain stupid.
Stick with the E7400, I recently put one in my new system and as stock it is great and, being a core 2 duo, it overclocks brilliantly. With the stock cooler I got mine up to 3.4GHz and with an aftermarket cooler it is up to 3.9GHz easily.

For the graphics card I would recommend sticking with the HD4850 as it will run pretty much all current games well up to about 1680 x 1050 resolution.
I would however go for a slightly different version.
The one I recommend is the Asus one with a different cooler on it, http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/GC4850512ASDI/Default.aspx
I put one of them in my new computer and it was great, ran about 15 to 20 degrees below the same card with the stock cooler on and so I could overclock it a lot using the inbuilt tools in the ATI software without it getting too hot.

 

[Wolvaroo]

It's also worth noting if considering upgrading the graphics card that most 4870s use the new GDDR5 [http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2309870,00.asp].

 

[oktalist]

Motherboard: Gigabyte N650SLI-DS4 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/MBGAN650SLIDS4/Default.aspx] $119.00
Sound Card: Creative SB0680 OEM Sound Blaster 5.1 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/AUDSCCRSB0680/Default.aspx] $35.00
Network Card: NetGear GA311GE [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/NWNICNGGA311GE/Default.aspx] $35.00

The gigabit network card is unnecessary, unless you want two of them (which is not unheard of), since there is already one built into the motherboard.

Also the sound card is not strictly necessary as there is one of those built into the motherboard too, but you may find a dedicated sound card gives better quality sound than the on-board one. If it was me, I would wait to see what the on-board sound is like before buying the separate card, as on-board sound is known for having an annoying background "interference whine" or squealing noise.

 

[Novajam]

New list up, thanks to everybody's help

Motherboard: Gigabyte N650SLI-DS4 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/MBGAN650SLIDS4/Default.aspx] $119.00
Sound Card: Creative SB0680 OEM Sound Blaster 5.1 [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/AUDSCCRSB0680/Default.aspx] $35.00
Network Card: NetGear GA311GE [http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/NWNICNGGA311GE/Default.aspx] $35.00

The gigabit network card is unnecessary, unless you want two of them (which is not unheard of), since there is already one built into the motherboard.

Also the sound card is not strictly necessary as there is one of those built into the motherboard too, but you may find a dedicated sound card gives better quality sound than the on-board one. If it was me, I would wait to see what the on-board sound is like before buying the separate card, as on-board sound is known for having an annoying background "interference whine" or squealing noise.

I'll be dropping the network card, sound card and heatsink, seeing as the majority say I can save the money for other parts.

I was using on board sound for a while and never had a problem with it. The only real reason I'm using a sound card now is that a powersurge fried the on-board, so I'll likely take your advice on that an see what it's like first. Cheers.

The extra $70 that you'd get from knocking out the unnecessary sound card, network card and heatsink would probably be better spent on a graphics card upgrade, if that was within your price range. If you could get a 4870, that would be a very good idea.

Some other suggestions would be the purchase of more RAM, a 640GB hard drive or a quad-core processor. The RAM would probably be the most pressing of these, and the other two are merely for convenience. Your core design is fundamentally sound, though, so it's just a case of upgrading what you can within the price range.

A HD4870 is just too dear, I'm afraid. But I'm sure the 4850 will still do very nicely. Again, I'll drop the unnecessary bits in favour of more memory, which everyone is calling out as a smart option. I find I don't use that much space on the hard drive, and the jump to quad core is an extra $100, so those will have to wait for another day. Thanks RAK.

 

[DeadMG]

[snipped both quotes]

He's already got the best card he can afford (the HD4870 is too expensive, and I wouldn't reccommend an nVidia card to save my life) and 4GB of RAM. When it comes to decent upgrades, going from the E7400 to E8400 seemed the best expenditure of the money.

However since he opted for a higher-grade motherboard instead, it's a moot point.

I would still suggest spending the remaining $45 on a cooler, if you're going to OC. Otherwise just keep the money. Your new rig is pretty good, just make sure you know how to put it together!

 

[Horticulture]

I recommend against that mainboard. The 600 series in general, and the 650 in particular, can be a bit erratic. Try this one instead: http://www.austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/MBMSP45Neo3-F/Default.aspx It's worth the few extra bucks, and will give you PCI-e 2.0 (I doubt it matters for a 4850) If you don't plan to add a second video card, you could to drop down to a 500-550 watt PSU from a top-tier manufacturer (SeaSonic, Corsair, BFG, PCP+C, Antec) if it'll save you any money.

Other than that, everything else I have to say is spoken for(+1 for extra RAM, no sound/network card). Happy building.

 

[Oopsie]

Excellent choice. I take it you are upgrading your memory in the future though. As for your choice of graphics card I would try and look for the 512 mb version dual slot cooler version, as pictured here;
http://www.elitebastards.com/hanners/sapphire/pr/4850-new.jpg
It's easier to clean, and cools more efficiently (less noise).

However, if you really want a 4870 I would higly recommend looking for some smaller online retailer in your own country. Whenever I build a computer I always have this one adress where they sell top notch graphics cards for atleast 100 euros less than anywhere else. You might get the retail-light version, but with a brand like Sapphire that still translates into a pretty full package.

 

[Oopsie]

Also, as a final note, I've taken a look at the system you want and made it an amd based platform (and have been "upgrading" it here and there). The results;

AMD Athlon X2 Processor 6400 3.2 Ghz $149.00
Cooler master hyper tx cpu cooler $39.00
Antec three hundred case $119.00
Cooler master silent fan (x2) $16.00
Gigabyte Motherboard MA78GM-S2HP $133.00
Kingston 4GB-Kit DDR2-800 RAM $79.00
Samsung SH-S223F $30.00
Antec PSU - 550W TruePower Trio $110.00
Samsung 500GB 3.5" SATA-II Hard Drive 16MB Cache 7200rpm $84.00
Sapphire Radeon HD4850 512MB PCI-E2 $229.00

Total $1004.00

 

[Horticulture]

If you haven't built already, Krunk's build with the same budget in the hardware thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.105715?page=2] manages a faster GPU and better case and PSU. It does need the last $100 to manage it, though.

 

[Novajam]

3rd list made. I think I'm happy with this one, but that's what I said last time.

Either way, Novajam, we've already discussed about this and I already gave my opinion.
You have a solid system there, nothing too fancy, but not too bad either. It's a good choice in terms of a price-quality ratio.

-snip snip snip-

Thankyou once again Wolf. You've been a big help. I'll be sure to pick up a case fan when I eventually go shopping, so it doesn't go Hindenburg.

Excellent choice. I take it you are upgrading your memory in the future though. As for your choice of graphics card I would try and look for the 512 mb version dual slot cooler version, as pictured here;
http://www.elitebastards.com/hanners/sapphire/pr/4850-new.jpg
It's easier to clean, and cools more efficiently (less noise).

However, if you really want a 4870 I would higly recommend looking for some smaller online retailer in your own country. Whenever I build a computer I always have this one adress where they sell top notch graphics cards for atleast 100 euros less than anywhere else. You might get the retail-light version, but with a brand like Sapphire that still translates into a pretty full package.

Thanks for directing me towards a version with a nice big fan on it. I'll try and pick one up, but it looks like I'll have to order it in online. Unfortunatley it can be really hard to find a good price in Australia sometimes, even online. Still, I've done my best to search.

If you haven't built already, Krunk's build with the same budget in the hardware thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.105715?page=2] manages a faster GPU and better case and PSU. It does need the last $100 to manage it, though.

I think I'm happy with what I've got planned now, and I knida like the look of the case I'm going for now, so thanks but no thanks.

However, your hardware thread is looking really good, and having read through has convinced me to change to a better power supply. Thanks Horticulture.

 

[Oopsie]

You should really consider buying the ddr2-800 instead of the ddr2-667. It's faster for the same price.